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** Heck, this troper was surprised he didn't simply shoot Blore, Armstrong ''and'' Vera as soon as he got his gun back. He's the one who'd abandoned a whole group of men to starve to death, after all, and had originally come to the island expecting he might have to use the weapon.

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** Heck, this troper was surprised why he didn't simply shoot Blore, Armstrong ''and'' Vera as soon as he got his gun back. back? He's the one who'd abandoned a whole group of men to starve to death, after all, and had originally come to the island expecting he might have to use the weapon.



* This is a major plothole in the 1945 film that has always bothered this troper: In the book, the judge went to great lengths to dig up on his victims' dirty history. In the movie, it turns out that one of his victims (Vera Claythorne) is innocent (two, if you want to count Charles Morley). How could he ''not'' find out Vera was innocent? In the book, he learned about what she had done ''directly'' through the person who would have been affected by her crime the most. In the movie, her crime is changed from killing a little boy to supposedly murdering her sister's fiancee. Who would he have had to ask in the first place? The dead fiancee's mother?

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* This is a major plothole in the 1945 film that has always bothered this troper: In the book, the judge went to great lengths to dig up on his victims' dirty history. In the 1945 movie, it turns out that one of his victims (Vera Claythorne) is innocent (two, if you want to count Charles Morley). How could he ''not'' find out Vera was innocent? In the book, he learned about what she had done ''directly'' through the person who would have been affected by her crime the most. In the movie, her crime is changed from killing a little boy to supposedly murdering her sister's fiancee. Who would he have had to ask in the first place? The dead fiancee's mother?



** Wargrave excused himself from the group a little while before Vera does, saying he's going to go to his room and read. There's also a shot of him and Armstrong sharing a look as he goes. This troper took that to be the point at which he'd always planned to "die" and he'd probably told Armstrong as much (eg "I'm going to find some excuse to go to my room and set this up. You just need to pronounce me dead when you all discover me"). Sooner or later even without the thing with Vera the rest of them would have realised Wargrave was missing, maybe Armstrong was even given an amount of time and if no one had mentioned the judge by then, then he'd be the one to do it.

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** Wargrave excused himself from the group a little while before Vera does, saying he's going to go to his room and read. There's also a shot of him and Armstrong sharing a look as he goes. This troper took that That seems to be the point at which he'd always planned to "die" and he'd probably told Armstrong as much (eg "I'm going to find some excuse to go to my room and set this up. You just need to pronounce me dead when you all discover me"). Sooner or later even without the thing with Vera the rest of them would have realised Wargrave was missing, maybe Armstrong was even given an amount of time and if no one had mentioned the judge by then, then he'd be the one to do it.
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*** And what if Narracott brings along a friend? What if someone sees him in Narracott's boat? What if Isaac Morris has a paper trail linking him to the island? What if Lombard doesn't know how to pilot the boat? Where's the safest and nearest place for him to dock the boat without risking being seen by anyone, and what if he runs out of fuel before he gets there? There's a lot of possible variables there, any one of which could, with a bit of bad luck, see him end up at the gallows. Lombard already ''knows'' he's innocent of this crime, and if he continues not killing people unnecessarily, he continues to be innocent and therefore legally untouchable. Whereas this plan would require him to actually ''commit'' at least four murders and thus risk the possibility of being caught for them. Whereas if he exposes the murderer with sufficient proof to convict him or her (including, ideally, a witness), then he's in the clear. In short, Lombard potentially has less to lose and more to gain by simply finding the actual murderer than he does by murdering every other occupant of the island, plus the guy who owns the boat, in a fit of paranoia. Lombard's ruthless, but that doesn't mean he's a homicidal psycho who believes MurderIsTheBestSolution to every problem and possesses no impulse control whatsoever.

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*** And what if Narracott brings along a friend? What if someone sees him in Narracott's boat? What if Isaac Morris has a paper trail linking him to the island? What if Lombard doesn't know how to pilot the boat? Where's the safest and nearest place for him to dock the boat without risking being seen by anyone, and what if he runs out of fuel before he gets there? There's a lot of possible variables there, any one of which could, with a bit of bad luck, see him end up at the gallows. However, Lombard already ''knows'' he's innocent of this crime, and if he continues not killing people unnecessarily, he continues to be innocent and therefore legally untouchable. Whereas this The plan being suggested here would require ''require'' him to actually ''commit'' commit at least four murders and thus risk the possibility of being caught for them. Whereas them, whereas if he simply exposes the murderer with sufficient proof to convict him or her (including, ideally, a witness), then he's in the clear. In short, Lombard potentially has less to lose and more to gain by simply finding the actual murderer than he does by murdering every other occupant of the island, plus the guy who owns the boat, in a fit of paranoia. Lombard's ruthless, but that doesn't mean he's a homicidal psycho who believes MurderIsTheBestSolution to every problem and possesses no impulse control whatsoever.
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** It is said by one of the local fishermen to Blore in the novel that storms are quite frequent in the area, sometimes lasting a whole week.
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*** Whether 1930s Britain was that different from our time in this regard could be a matter of debate, but it would actually be pointless: these diaries were obviously kept for private use only, thus eliminating any possible social pressure for discreetness.

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*** Whether 1930s Britain was that different from our time in this regard could be a matter of debate, but it would actually be pointless: these diaries were obviously kept for private use only, thus eliminating any possible social pressure for discreetness.discretion.



*** I wouldn't say that Wargrave is "quite lucky" in that regard though. Unless Armstrong is into a rather peculiar mindset of recording everything to help hypothetical future investigators to sort the entire thing out - and there's no evidence that he is - he has little to gain but possibly much to lose by writing down his arrangement with Wargrave in the event it is read - under whatever circumstances - by Lombard, Blore ot Vera, which would give away that he's in cahoots with Wargrave. By contrast, it's much more plausible that he would have recorded Judge's ''betrayal'' if he had had a chance to figure it out, but he probably wouldn't have lived long enough to write it down anyway.

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*** I wouldn't say that Wargrave is "quite lucky" in that regard though. Unless Armstrong is into a rather peculiar mindset of recording everything to help hypothetical future investigators to sort the entire thing out - and there's no evidence that he is - he has little to gain but possibly probably much to lose by writing down his arrangement with Wargrave in the event if it is read - under whatever whichever circumstances - by Lombard, Blore ot and/or Vera, which would give away that he's in cahoots with Wargrave. By contrast, it's much more plausible that he would have recorded Judge's ''betrayal'' if he had had a chance to figure it out, but he probably wouldn't have lived wasn't supposed to live long enough to write it down anyway.anyway (and, well, didn't).
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*** you are forgetting the biggest point - sea temperature. In Devon and cornwall, temperature can be as low as 5 degrees celsius, but the average for winter and spring is about 10 degrees celsius. this is actually extremely cold and your muscles will freeze up soon. every year people die in hot weather going swimming in quarries because they do not realise how cold the water is. Sure, there are swimming clubs who swim in cold water...but they don't swim a mile out from land where they can drown. And they don't swim for long periods either.

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*** you You are forgetting the biggest point - sea temperature. In Devon and cornwall, temperature can be as low as 5 degrees celsius, but the average for winter and spring is about 10 degrees celsius. this is actually extremely cold and your muscles will freeze up soon. every Every year people die in hot weather by going swimming in quarries because they do not realise how cold the water is. Sure, there are swimming clubs who swim in cold water...but they don't swim a mile out from land where they can drown. And they don't swim for long periods either.
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*** Besides, Lombard's no fool: he's perfectly aware of the Hostile Suspicion Chain described above and understands that his words matter little at this point.
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** I ''think'' he interpreted Vera's question as a weird little quiz, as if very is saying "Ok, I'm murderer. But are you clever enough to figure out how I did it?". Then he shrugs, because the answer doesn't really matter at this point, and guesses that it was a conjuring trick. Vera, of course, meant her question literally and takes his response as a confession.

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** I ''think'' he interpreted Vera's question as a weird little quiz, as if very Vera is saying "Ok, I'm the murderer. But are you clever enough to figure out how I did it?". Then he shrugs, because the answer doesn't really matter at this point, and guesses that it was a conjuring trick. Vera, of course, meant her question literally and takes his response as a confession.
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* One thing that bugs me (from the book) is that Lombard appears to ''confess'' that he's the murderer as soon as it's just him and Vera. They find Armstrong's corpse, which naturally leads both of them to suspect the other, since they both believe that they're the only two people left on the island. The odd sticking point here is that Blore was murdered with a marble bear clock while both Vera and Lombard are far away (and in sight of each other). Vera, wondering about this point but clearly assuming that Lombard is the killer, asks "How was it worked - that trick with the marble bear?". In response, Lombard shrugs his shoulders and says "A conjuring trick, my dear - a very good one." What the heck is going on here? If Lombard thinks that Vera is the killer, he should be surprised by the question. Why would the murderer ask him how she committed the murder, when obviously she already knows, since she's the one who did it? Instead he shrugs his shoulders as if to say "Ok, you caught me" and explains that it was done by a conjuring trick, acting like he knows how it was done because ''he'' is the killer, when of course he's not the killer. Shouldn't be protesting his innocence to the end?
** I ''think'' he interpreted Vera's question as a weird little quiz, as if very is saying "Ok, I'm murderer. But are you clever enough to figure out how I did it?". Then he shrugs, because the answer doesn't really matter at this point, and guesses that it was a conjuring trick. Vera, of course, meant her question literally and takes his response as a confession.
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*** Is it really that easy to convincingly play dead when people are personally hauling you away? You'd have to endure being tipped over and manhandled without ever moving a single muscle, blinking an eye, or taking a significant breath. The people you're trying to fool literally have their hands on you at that point. I could see Wargrave playing dead while he's propped in a chair at a distance, but it's much much harder to keep up the act while being dragged to your bed.
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** If you recalled how hysterical she got once (a scene where Lombard had to slap her), if you remembered how ''unnaturally overjoyed'' she became after killing Lombard... you wouldn't be that surprised by the finale.

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** If you recalled how hysterical she got once (a scene where Lombard Armstrong had to slap her), if you remembered how ''unnaturally overjoyed'' she became after killing Lombard... you wouldn't be that surprised by the finale.
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*** Regarding bullets though, he probably could have hidden some more of those together with the revolver itself (that is, with the cookies), just in case.
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*** I wouldn't say that Wargrave is "quite lucky" in that regard though. Unless Armstrong is into a rather peculiar mindset of recording everything to help hypothetical future investigators to sort the entire thing out - and there's no evidence that he is - he has nothing to gain by writing down his arrangement with Wargrave which could be read - under whatever circumstances - by Lombard, Blore and thus give the whole thing away. By contrast, it's much more plausible that he would have recorded Judge's ''betrayal'' if he had had a chance to figure it out, but he probably wouldn't have lived long enough to write it down anyway.

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*** I wouldn't say that Wargrave is "quite lucky" in that regard though. Unless Armstrong is into a rather peculiar mindset of recording everything to help hypothetical future investigators to sort the entire thing out - and there's no evidence that he is - he has nothing little to gain but possibly much to lose by writing down his arrangement with Wargrave which could be in the event it is read - under whatever circumstances - by Lombard, Blore and thus ot Vera, which would give the whole thing away.away that he's in cahoots with Wargrave. By contrast, it's much more plausible that he would have recorded Judge's ''betrayal'' if he had had a chance to figure it out, but he probably wouldn't have lived long enough to write it down anyway.
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**** I wouldn't say that Wargrave is "quite lucky" in that regard though. Unless Armstrong is into a rather peculiar mindset of recording everything to help hypothetical future investigators to sort the entire thing out - and there's no evidence that he is - he has nothing to gain by writing down his arrangement with Wargrave which could be read - under whatever circumstances - by Lombard, Blore and thus give the whole thing away. By contrast, it's much more plausible that he would have recorded Judge's ''betrayal'' if he had had a chance to figure it out, but he probably wouldn't have lived long enough to write it down anyway.
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*** There is actually no reason for the police to mention how detailed the diaries were unless those details actually led them somewhere. It's that world-famous Dame Agatha's little detail that doesn't get mentioned not because it isn't there or isn't remembered but because nobody can see a deeper meaning behind. And given the above-quoted passage about Vera's mood at the time of the writing of the diary, one could argue that, on the contrary, she might have been trying to calm herself down by recalling everything that happened asmeticuolusly as possible, as if looking at the whole thing from a distance, as if she were an uninvolved observer.

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*** There is actually no reason for the police to mention how detailed the diaries were unless those details actually led them somewhere. It's that world-famous Dame Agatha's little detail that doesn't get mentioned not because it isn't there or isn't remembered but because nobody can see a deeper meaning behind. And given the above-quoted passage about Vera's mood at the time of the writing of the diary, one could argue that, on the contrary, she might have been trying to calm herself down by recalling everything that happened asmeticuolusly as meticulously as possible, as if looking at the whole thing from a distance, as if she were an uninvolved observer.
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**** To be even more pedantic, there's a reason why DirtyCop and PoliceAreUseless are two different tropes. We are fairly certain that Blore was no honest cop; about his professionalism we know precisely nothing though.
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*** Actually, it might not be quite true that he had only one opportunity to shoot himself. Provided there is a sufficient number of bullets (and Wargrave could easily have hidden additional ammo together with the revolver itself) and that some shot wouldn't incapacitate him without actually killing, he might have a few attempts at it. To be sure, there will be some more bulletholes, but it would hardly contradict the diaries: the then alive cannot have known how many times Wargrave was "supposed" to be shot because they couldn't hear even any specific shots at the time, for obvious reasons; and it would look perfectly plausible that in the evening and with candlelight alone they just couldn't notice any additional bullets shot.
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*** Actually, it might not be quite true that he had only one opportunity to shoot himself. Provided there is a sufficient number of bullets (and Wargrave could easily have hidden additional ammo together with the revolver itself) and that some shot wouldn't incapacitate him without actually killing, he might have a few attempts at it. To be sure, there will be some more bulletholes, but it would hardly contradict the diaries: the then alive cannot have known how many times Wargrave was "supposed" to be shot because they couldn't hear even a single shot at the time, for obvious reasons; and it would look perfectly plausible that in the evening and with candlelight alone they just didn't notice any additional bulletholes.

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*** Actually, it might not be quite true that he had only one opportunity to shoot himself. Provided there is a sufficient number of bullets (and Wargrave could easily have hidden additional ammo together with the revolver itself) and that some shot wouldn't incapacitate him without actually killing, he might have a few attempts at it. To be sure, there will be some more bulletholes, but it would hardly contradict the diaries: the then alive cannot have known how many times Wargrave was "supposed" to be shot because they couldn't hear even a single shot any specific shots at the time, for obvious reasons; and it would look perfectly plausible that in the evening and with candlelight alone they just didn't couldn't notice any additional bulletholes.bullets shot.
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*** Actually, it might not be quite true that he had only one opportunity to shoot himself. Provided there is a sufficient number of bullets (and Wargrave could easily have hidden additional ammo together with the revolver itself) and that some shot wouldn't incapacitate him without actually killing, he might have a few attempts at it. To be sure, there will be some more bulletholes, but it would hardly contradict the diaries: the then alive cannot have known how many times Wargrave was "supposed" to be shot because they couldn't hear even a single shot at the time, for obvious reasons; and it would look perfectly plausible that in the evening and with candlelight alone they just didn't notice any additional bulletholes.
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** Considering that they're highly paranoid, it's equally likely that they at some point assume that the other murdered Armstrong and threw his body into the ocean in order to take the heat off themselves, thus leading to the same result. In any case, considering how highly orchestrated everything about these events are and considering that it's repeatedly stated that the island is small with few places to hide, the killer almost certainly killed Armstrong and left him in such a way that his body would eventually be found in the way it was. The whole point is that he's not someone who leaves things to chance.

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** Considering that they're highly paranoid, it's equally likely that they at some point assume that the other murdered Armstrong and threw his body into the ocean in order to take the heat off themselves, thus leading to the same result. In any case, considering how highly orchestrated everything about these events are and considering that it's repeatedly stated that the island is small with few places to hide, the killer almost certainly killed Armstrong and left him in such a way that his body would eventually be found in the way it was. The whole point is that he's not someone who leaves things as little to chance.chance as possible.
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** Considering that they're highly paranoid, it's equally likely that they at some point assume that the other murdered Armstrong and threw his body into the ocean in order to take the heat off themselves, thus leading to the same result. In any case, considering how highly orchestrated everything about these events are and considering that it's repeatedly stated that the island is small with few places to hide, the killer almost certainly killed Armstrong and left him in such a way that his body would eventually be found in the way it was. The whole point is that he's not someone who leaves things to chance.
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** They were not getting payed to gust live in the house. They were payed to prepare it for the guests. Unused houses tend to deteriorate, so someone has to freshen it up, dust the dust, do some repair work, etc. It's a huge house, and they are just two servants. They would've been very busy.

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** They were not getting payed to gust just live in the house. They were payed to prepare it for the guests. Unused houses tend to deteriorate, so someone has to freshen it up, dust the dust, do some repair work, etc. It's a huge house, and they are just two servants. They would've been very busy.
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** They were not getting payed to gust live in the house. They were payed to prepare it for the guests. Unused houses tend to deteriorate, so someone has to freshen it up, dust the dust, do some repair work, etc. It's a huge house, and they are just two servants. They would've been very busy.
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*One thing that I feel went very much in the killer’s favour was Vera and Lombard finding Armstrong’s body. As the above examples noted, if Armstrong’s body isn’t found, the police may assume it was him but at that point it wouldn’t have mattered to Wargrave anyway, he would still have succeeded in committing the crime. But if Vera and Lombard don’t find the body, they probably continue assuming that Armstrong is the killer and don’t split up until the boat comes, making it very hard for Wargrave to kill them, probably ensuring that the two survive. So Wargrave seems to have left at least this up to chance, which seems a bit odd for him. It’s hard to see how he could be prepared enough to deal with two people surviving, especially considering those people are more on their guard than before.
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****Armstrong was the only victim that the coroner could give an estimated time of death by how long it had been in the water - sometime on the evening of the 10th/11th. Presumably, if he had washed up after everyone else was dead, the coroner could still use the same technique to broadly peg his time of death. Boy Scouts noticed the SOS fires on the morning of the 11th, so Armstrong couldn't have been the last alive on the island even if his body were not dragged above the high tide mark. However, if Armstrong's body had been swept out to sea and never found, then yes, the police could reasonably assume that he'd killed everyone else and perhaps died while trying to swim to shore.
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*** The diaries serve as guard rails of sorts for Wargrave since he can’t know for certain who is keeping them or where they might be. (He’s quite lucky that Armstrong wasn’t keeping one in his breast pocket outlining Wargrave’s double cross.) Wargrave’s body has to be found laid out on his bed to agree with any facts that might have been recorded. That being said, I find it totally believable that a 1920’s revolver can fire a round that does not create an exit wound and would be instantly fatal, thus leaving little blood. After all, the same gun shot Lombard ‘through the heart’ but there’s no mention of an exit wound and it’s likely easier to penetrate a rib cage than a skull.

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*** The diaries serve as guard rails of sorts for Wargrave since he can’t know for certain who is keeping them or where they might be. (He’s quite lucky that Armstrong wasn’t keeping one in his breast pocket outlining Wargrave’s double cross.) Wargrave’s body has to be found laid out on his bed to agree with any facts that might have been recorded. That being said, I find it totally believable that a 1920’s 1920s revolver can fire a round that does not create an exit wound and would be instantly fatal, thus leaving little blood. After all, the same gun shot Lombard ‘through the heart’ but there’s no mention of an exit wound and it’s likely easier to penetrate a rib cage than a skull.



** Also the ones he abandoned were "natives" who he probably thought were subhuman or at least inferior, being written in the 1930's. By his way of thinking abandoning a bunch of "natives" is a far cry from killing Whites.

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** Also the ones he abandoned were "natives" who he probably thought were subhuman or at least inferior, being written in the 1930's.1930s. By his way of thinking abandoning a bunch of "natives" is a far cry from killing Whites.
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** Exactly. In the ''Series/{{Monk}} episode "[[Recap/MonkS4E2MrMonkGoesHomeAgain Mr. Monk Goes Home Again]]", the killer shoots an armored car guard hoping that this would keep the police from discovering he'd been poisoned before being shot. The police might not have thought to look for another cause of death in light of the "obvious" one.

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** Exactly. In the ''Series/{{Monk}} ''Series/{{Monk}}'' episode "[[Recap/MonkS4E2MrMonkGoesHomeAgain Mr. Monk Goes Home Again]]", the killer shoots an armored car guard hoping that this would keep the police from discovering he'd been poisoned before being shot. The police might not have thought to look for another cause of death in light of the "obvious" one.
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****The diaries serve as guard rails of sorts for Wargrave since he can’t know for certain who is keeping them or where they might be. (He’s quite lucky that Armstrong wasn’t keeping one in his breast pocket outlining Wargrave’s double cross.) Wargrave’s body has to be found laid out on his bed to agree with any facts that might have been recorded. That being said, I find it totally believable that a 1920’s revolver can fire a round that does not create an exit wound and would be instantly fatal, thus leaving little blood. After all, the same gun shot Lombard ‘through the heart’ but there’s no mention of an exit wound and it’s likely easier to penetrate a rib cage than a skull.
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**I’m fairly sure that Christie assumed that the bullet would not exit the judge’s head or else the bullet itself would be the vital clue; it would be found lodged in Wargrave’s pillow rather than in the woodwork in the parlour.
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**** On the contrary, Wargrave took pains to commit suicide at the very place where he was 'supposed' to be murdered - and doesn't this fact by itself show that diaries ''do'' matter, at least in Wargrave's mind? He specifically points out that he will be found just like the diaries say he should be. And just to remind that it's not the position of bodies that will be changed - it is the sheer amount of blood in the room where the judge was supposedly taken after he had already died. And this one looks more subtle for the dull-witted to miss.
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*** But that ''still'' doesn't change the essential point that clearly any diaries didn't include ''any'' information the police would note as useful or worthy of further investigation -- because if they ''had'', the police (and by extension, Dame Agatha) would have mentioned it, even if it didn't lead them to the solution, at very least as being something interesting or contradictory for the reader to note among all the clues. I mean, the headscratcher we're discussing here is basically "why didn't the police pick up on something suspicious like the position or location of one of the bodies being completely different (as in, ''having clearly taken place on a different floor altogether'') from how it was written in a diary to how they found it". That's a large enough inconsistency even for one of Dame Agatha's dull-witted flatfoots to pick up on, especially if, as you suggest (and which I'm arguing against) Vera is making a point of meticulously writing down ''every single thing''. So since no one mentioned anything in the crime scene being contradicted by anything in a diary, the simplest solution is that there was nothing written in any diary, for whatever reason, that contradicted the crime scene as it was found. And by extension, Dame Agatha probably didn't consider the diaries or anything in them to be significant, likely didn't want the reader to either, and so didn't have her characters draw any special attention to them. There's the easily overlooked clue and then there's something which probably isn't supposed to be a clue at all.

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