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** Um, you realize that "Sith" and "Palpatine" are synonymous? As in the threat of the Sith is actually Palpatine (lord of the Sith) becoming the leader of the Republic..
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*** You guys are failing to understand what the definition of 'heroic' is. It definitely isn't some action by the character that indirectly caused a chain of events leading to victory decades later. 'Heroic' is most easily defined by accomplishing incredible feats with great courage in the face of impossible odds, fatal dangers, or horrifying terrors. While Obi-Wan for example of course is a hero, he was not the hero responsible for victory in a New Hope (if we insist on identifying on key hero). By this definition it could only be Leah or Luke.
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Come to think of it that doesn\'t belong in spoiler tags.
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** By stopping Windu from killing Palpatine, he is partially responsible for the creation of the empire. Also, his killing of the children in the jedi temple didn't just demonstrate his descent into evil, but also cut off a major source of potential jedi, though granted, MAYBE it could have been done by the clones. Also, Vader's "force-choking" of imperial staff ultimately instills a sense of fear in them which probably plays a significant role in their actions. Also, the Vader-Luke confrontations probably had significant effects on the psychology of each, which is probably important what with Luke being the "last of the jedi." (Save for Yoda until [[spoiler:his death]].) [=neoYTPism=]
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** By stopping Windu from killing Palpatine, he is partially responsible for the creation of the empire. Also, his killing of the children in the jedi temple didn't just demonstrate his descent into evil, but also cut off a major source of potential jedi, though granted, MAYBE it could have been done by the clones. Also, Vader's "force-choking" of imperial staff ultimately instills a sense of fear in them which probably plays a significant role in their actions. Also, the Vader-Luke confrontations probably had significant effects on the psychology of each, which is probably important what with Luke being the "last of the jedi." (Save for Yoda until [[spoiler:his death]].his death.) [=neoYTPism=]
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* In the prequel trilogy, especially in Phantom Menace, much is made of Anakin's great power in the Force and how important he is as the Chosen One. Because of his general visual appeal, James Earl Jones' voice, and the admitted awesome of TheReveal in Empire, it took me a while to realize this, but... Vader's largely inconsequential throughout the series after blowing up the droids' command station in Phantom Menace. He does nothing of import during Attack of the Clones other than brashly undermining Obi-Wan. In Revenge of the Sith, he kills children, chokes his wife, and gets crippled. In the original trilogy, he's a badass, sure, but we saw him as the ultimate force user for two movies straight, and had no idea there was more to it than telekinesis and hypnosis (the latter of which he never used). Jedi shows the real big bad, and Vader does kill him, but... ultimately, isn't Vader just a visually-impressive Dragon to Palpatine, and for all his purported power, he just throws junk at Luke and force-chokes stuffy Brits who annoy him. Power? What power?
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* In the prequel trilogy, especially in Phantom Menace, much is made of Anakin's great power in the Force and how important he is as the Chosen One. Because of his general visual appeal, James Earl Jones' voice, and the admitted awesome of TheReveal in Empire, it took me a while to realize this, but... Vader's largely inconsequential throughout the series after blowing up the droids' command station in Phantom Menace. He does nothing of import during Attack of the Clones other than brashly undermining Obi-Wan. In Revenge of the Sith, he kills children, chokes his wife, and gets crippled. In the original trilogy, he's a badass, sure, but we saw him as the ultimate force user for two movies straight, and had no idea there was more to it than telekinesis and hypnosis (the latter of which he never used). Jedi shows the real big bad, and Vader does kill him, but... ultimately, isn't Vader just a visually-impressive Dragon to Palpatine, and for all his purported power, he just throws junk at Luke and force-chokes stuffy Brits who annoy him. Power? What power?power?
** By stopping Windu from killing Palpatine, he is partially responsible for the creation of the empire. Also, his killing of the children in the jedi temple didn't just demonstrate his descent into evil, but also cut off a major source of potential jedi, though granted, MAYBE it could have been done by the clones. Also, Vader's "force-choking" of imperial staff ultimately instills a sense of fear in them which probably plays a significant role in their actions. Also, the Vader-Luke confrontations probably had significant effects on the psychology of each, which is probably important what with Luke being the "last of the jedi." (Save for Yoda until [[spoiler:his death]].) [=neoYTPism=]
** By stopping Windu from killing Palpatine, he is partially responsible for the creation of the empire. Also, his killing of the children in the jedi temple didn't just demonstrate his descent into evil, but also cut off a major source of potential jedi, though granted, MAYBE it could have been done by the clones. Also, Vader's "force-choking" of imperial staff ultimately instills a sense of fear in them which probably plays a significant role in their actions. Also, the Vader-Luke confrontations probably had significant effects on the psychology of each, which is probably important what with Luke being the "last of the jedi." (Save for Yoda until [[spoiler:his death]].) [=neoYTPism=]
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* Another case of FridgeBrilliance, you know how people often complain that Anakin's personality in ThePhantomMenace seemed so contradictory to his original-trilogy personality, and that both personalities seemed contradictory to the personality he had in AttackOfTheClones and RevengeOfTheSith... but then again, [[TruthInTelevision adults often ARE quite different as adults than they were as children]], so of course Anakin's going to have different personalities as a child, as a teenager, and as an adult. ThePhantomMenace's Anakin was a child, so of COURSE he's going to be more sweet and friendly than he was later on. The Anakin of AttackOfTheClones and RevengeOfTheSith was a teenager, so of COURSE he's going to be more whiny and arrogant than he was later or earlier on. The Vader of the original trilogy was an adult, much older than the Anakin of RevengeOfTheSith, so of COURSE he's going to be more mature than any other version of Anakin. This is, if not perfectly in line with actual age difference, at least in line with PERCEIVED age differences, and if one is to complain about this, their real complaint is with popular age stereotypes, not StarWars movies. - [=neoYTPism=]
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* Another case of FridgeBrilliance, you know how people often complain that Anakin's personality in ThePhantomMenace seemed so contradictory to his original-trilogy personality, and that both personalities seemed contradictory to the personality he had in AttackOfTheClones and RevengeOfTheSith... but then again, [[TruthInTelevision adults often ARE quite different as adults than they were as children]], so of course Anakin's going to have different personalities as a child, as a teenager, and as an adult. ThePhantomMenace's Anakin was a child, so of COURSE he's going to be more sweet and friendly than he was later on. The Anakin of AttackOfTheClones and RevengeOfTheSith was a teenager, so of COURSE he's going to be more whiny and arrogant than he was later or earlier on. The Vader of the original trilogy was an adult, much older than the Anakin of RevengeOfTheSith, so of COURSE he's going to be more mature than any other version of Anakin. This is, if not perfectly in line with actual age difference, at least in line with PERCEIVED age differences, and if one is to complain about this, their real complaint is with popular age stereotypes, not StarWars movies. - [=neoYTPism=][=neoYTPism=]
* In the prequel trilogy, especially in Phantom Menace, much is made of Anakin's great power in the Force and how important he is as the Chosen One. Because of his general visual appeal, James Earl Jones' voice, and the admitted awesome of TheReveal in Empire, it took me a while to realize this, but... Vader's largely inconsequential throughout the series after blowing up the droids' command station in Phantom Menace. He does nothing of import during Attack of the Clones other than brashly undermining Obi-Wan. In Revenge of the Sith, he kills children, chokes his wife, and gets crippled. In the original trilogy, he's a badass, sure, but we saw him as the ultimate force user for two movies straight, and had no idea there was more to it than telekinesis and hypnosis (the latter of which he never used). Jedi shows the real big bad, and Vader does kill him, but... ultimately, isn't Vader just a visually-impressive Dragon to Palpatine, and for all his purported power, he just throws junk at Luke and force-chokes stuffy Brits who annoy him. Power? What power?
* In the prequel trilogy, especially in Phantom Menace, much is made of Anakin's great power in the Force and how important he is as the Chosen One. Because of his general visual appeal, James Earl Jones' voice, and the admitted awesome of TheReveal in Empire, it took me a while to realize this, but... Vader's largely inconsequential throughout the series after blowing up the droids' command station in Phantom Menace. He does nothing of import during Attack of the Clones other than brashly undermining Obi-Wan. In Revenge of the Sith, he kills children, chokes his wife, and gets crippled. In the original trilogy, he's a badass, sure, but we saw him as the ultimate force user for two movies straight, and had no idea there was more to it than telekinesis and hypnosis (the latter of which he never used). Jedi shows the real big bad, and Vader does kill him, but... ultimately, isn't Vader just a visually-impressive Dragon to Palpatine, and for all his purported power, he just throws junk at Luke and force-chokes stuffy Brits who annoy him. Power? What power?
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*** On that note, one could argue that your midichlorian count makes it easier not only to learn the ways of the Force, but to also fall to the Dark Side (sensitivity to the Force and all that).
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* In RevengeOfTheSith, Obi-Wan says to Yoda something along the lines of ''"Anakin is like a brother to me"'' when told to deal with Anakin. In ReturnOfTheJedi, when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan says ''"then the emperor has already won."'' At first, this might seem like hypocrisy on Obi-Wan's part, and it's not like Obi-Wan is above it. However, thinking about it even further, you realize that it implies Obi-Wan simply "learned his lesson" from earlier dealings with Anakin; namely, not to let emotional connections get in the way of doing what had to be done. Obi-Wan himself "almost" hesitated because of these emotional connections and would understandably want to discourage his later students from making the same mistake. It turns out not to be really necessary, of course, but that just adds to the FridgeBrilliance; Obi-Wan got the wrong impression about what had to be done, because he learned the wrong lessons from past experiences... - [=neoYTPism=]
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* In RevengeOfTheSith, Obi-Wan says to Yoda something along the lines of ''"Anakin is like a brother to me"'' when told to deal with Anakin. In ReturnOfTheJedi, when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan says ''"then the emperor has already won."'' At first, this might seem like hypocrisy on Obi-Wan's part, and it's not like Obi-Wan is above it. However, thinking about it even further, you realize that it implies Obi-Wan simply "learned his lesson" from earlier dealings with Anakin; namely, not to let emotional connections get in the way of doing what had to be done. Obi-Wan himself "almost" hesitated because of these emotional connections and would understandably want to discourage his later students from making the same mistake. It turns out not to be really necessary, of course, but that just adds to the FridgeBrilliance; Obi-Wan got the wrong impression about what had to be done, because he learned the wrong lessons from past experiences... - [=neoYTPism=]
* Another case of FridgeBrilliance, you know how people often complain that Anakin's personality in ThePhantomMenace seemed so contradictory to his original-trilogy personality, and that both personalities seemed contradictory to the personality he had in AttackOfTheClones and RevengeOfTheSith... but then again, [[TruthInTelevision adults often ARE quite different as adults than they were as children]], so of course Anakin's going to have different personalities as a child, as a teenager, and as an adult. ThePhantomMenace's Anakin was a child, so of COURSE he's going to be more sweet and friendly than he was later on. The Anakin of AttackOfTheClones and RevengeOfTheSith was a teenager, so of COURSE he's going to be more whiny and arrogant than he was later or earlier on. The Vader of the original trilogy was an adult, much older than the Anakin of RevengeOfTheSith, so of COURSE he's going to be more mature than any other version of Anakin. This is, if not perfectly in line with actual age difference, at least in line with PERCEIVED age differences, and if one is to complain about this, their real complaint is with popular age stereotypes, not StarWars movies. - [=neoYTPism=]
* Another case of FridgeBrilliance, you know how people often complain that Anakin's personality in ThePhantomMenace seemed so contradictory to his original-trilogy personality, and that both personalities seemed contradictory to the personality he had in AttackOfTheClones and RevengeOfTheSith... but then again, [[TruthInTelevision adults often ARE quite different as adults than they were as children]], so of course Anakin's going to have different personalities as a child, as a teenager, and as an adult. ThePhantomMenace's Anakin was a child, so of COURSE he's going to be more sweet and friendly than he was later on. The Anakin of AttackOfTheClones and RevengeOfTheSith was a teenager, so of COURSE he's going to be more whiny and arrogant than he was later or earlier on. The Vader of the original trilogy was an adult, much older than the Anakin of RevengeOfTheSith, so of COURSE he's going to be more mature than any other version of Anakin. This is, if not perfectly in line with actual age difference, at least in line with PERCEIVED age differences, and if one is to complain about this, their real complaint is with popular age stereotypes, not StarWars movies. - [=neoYTPism=]
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** Obi-Wan didn't expect Vader to survive. Vader lost all three of his remaining real limbs and he was on fire. In a book set shortly after Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan is clearly surprised to hear Vader is still alive and kicking. Anakin was also the closest thing Obi-Wan would ever have to a son. He literally couldn't bring himself to strike a killing blow on a man who was essentially his child. --jedimaster91
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**** At the very least, though, judging by his tone of voice, he sure doesn't seem to MIND that the Jedi were killed off.
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* You may begin to hate Hayden Christiensen's performance as Anakin, and wonder why Lucas isn't reining him in or directing more so that we like Anakin or feel for him or experience any sense of empathy for his plight. By the time you reach halfway through Episode 3, you may begin to actively hate Anakin Skywalker, even before his fall. Well played, George Lucas. ''You've been conditioning us to hate Darth Vader again.''
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*** Tarkin's line is really just a simple statement of fact. If I say, "There's no Dodo birds left," does that mean I'm condemning them because I have a personal prejudice against them? No, I'm just stating quantifiable fact, which is what Tarkin is doing, as far as he has any reason to believe. Tarkin doesn't offer any judgment on them, or say they ''should'' be dead because of their religion, he just says they're gone.
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*** Tarkin's line is really just a simple statement of fact. If I say, "There's no Dodo birds left," does that mean I'm condemning them because I have a personal prejudice against them? No, I'm just stating quantifiable fact, which is what Tarkin is doing, as far as he has any reason to believe. Tarkin doesn't offer any judgment on them, or say they ''should'' be dead because of their religion, he just says they're gone.\\\
Tarkin's a bad, ''bad'' guy, sure, but you're ascribing qualities to him on extremely flimsy 'evidence'.
Tarkin's a bad, ''bad'' guy, sure, but you're ascribing qualities to him on extremely flimsy 'evidence'.
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*** Tarkin's line is really just a simple statement of fact. If I say, "There's no Dodo birds left," does that mean I'm condemning them because I have a personal prejudice against them? No, I'm just stating quantifiable fact, which is what Tarkin is doing, as far as he has any reason to believe. Tarkin doesn't offer any judgment on them, or say they ''should'' be dead because of their religion, he just says they're gone.
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Didn\'t even notice that typo earlier
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* In RevengeOfTheSith, Obi-Wan says to Yoda something along the lines of ''"Anakin is like a brother to me"'' when told to deal with Anakin. In ReturnOfTheJedi, when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan says ''"then the emperor has already won."'' At first, this might seem like hypocrisy on Obi-Wan's part, and it's not like Obi-Wan is above it. However, thinking about it even further, you realize that it implies Obi-Wan simply "learned his lesson" from earlier dealings with Anakin; namely, not to let emotional connections getting in the way of doing what has to be done. Obi-Wan himself "almost" hesitated because of these emotional connections and would understandably want to discourage his later students from making the same mistake. It turns out not to be really necessary, of course, but that just adds to the FridgeBrilliance; Obi-Wan got the wrong impression about what had to be done, because he learned the wrong lessons from past experiences... - [=neoYTPism=]
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* In RevengeOfTheSith, Obi-Wan says to Yoda something along the lines of ''"Anakin is like a brother to me"'' when told to deal with Anakin. In ReturnOfTheJedi, when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan says ''"then the emperor has already won."'' At first, this might seem like hypocrisy on Obi-Wan's part, and it's not like Obi-Wan is above it. However, thinking about it even further, you realize that it implies Obi-Wan simply "learned his lesson" from earlier dealings with Anakin; namely, not to let emotional connections getting get in the way of doing what has had to be done. Obi-Wan himself "almost" hesitated because of these emotional connections and would understandably want to discourage his later students from making the same mistake. It turns out not to be really necessary, of course, but that just adds to the FridgeBrilliance; Obi-Wan got the wrong impression about what had to be done, because he learned the wrong lessons from past experiences... - [=neoYTPism=]
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Oops
Changed line(s) 162 (click to see context) from:
* In RevengeOfTheSith, Obi-Wan says to Yoda something along the lines of ''"Anakin is like a brother to me"'' when told to deal with Anakin. In ReturnOfTheJedi, when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan says ''"then the emperor has already won."'' At first, this might seem like hypocrisy on Obi-Wan's part, and it's not like Obi-Wan is above it. However, thinking about it even further, you realize that it implies Obi-Wan simply "learned his lesson" from earlier dealings with Anakin; namely, not to let emotional connections getting in the way of doing what has to be done. Obi-Wan himself "almost" hesitated because of these emotional connections and would understandably want to discourage his later students from making the same mistake. It turns out not to be really necessary, of course, but that just adds to the FridgeBrilliance; Obi-Wan got the wrong impression about what had to be done, because he learned the wrong lessons from past experiences... [=neoYTPism=]
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* In RevengeOfTheSith, Obi-Wan says to Yoda something along the lines of ''"Anakin is like a brother to me"'' when told to deal with Anakin. In ReturnOfTheJedi, when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan says ''"then the emperor has already won."'' At first, this might seem like hypocrisy on Obi-Wan's part, and it's not like Obi-Wan is above it. However, thinking about it even further, you realize that it implies Obi-Wan simply "learned his lesson" from earlier dealings with Anakin; namely, not to let emotional connections getting in the way of doing what has to be done. Obi-Wan himself "almost" hesitated because of these emotional connections and would understandably want to discourage his later students from making the same mistake. It turns out not to be really necessary, of course, but that just adds to the FridgeBrilliance; Obi-Wan got the wrong impression about what had to be done, because he learned the wrong lessons from past experiences... - [=neoYTPism=]
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** Okay, okay, so maybe it might not have been motivated by contempt for their religious beliefs, but the point remains that Tarkin's like some historical villains in wanting people killed for their religious beliefs. There are probably some actual examples, probably in communist dictatorships, of it being about the religious beliefs of the victims. My point overall is the implied distinction between Palpatine and Tarkin... Palpatine's heinous evil deeds are clearly driven by his lust for power, but for Tarkin [[BeyondTheImpossible even lust for power isn't sufficient explanation for his heinous evil deeds]]. [=neoYTPism=]
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* You ever notice that the final duel of Episode III and the final duel of Episode VI has something in common (other than being the final duels of their respective trilogies)? The lightsabres being used have the same hilt design. Different colours, but same hilt. Anakin's sabre hilt is identical to Vader's apart from different colour trimmings and Obi-Wan's hilt is nearly identical to Luke's. In both duels, Anakin loses and the very last lightsabre seen to be deactivated at the end of both trilogies is the Luke/Obi-Wan design.
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* You ever notice that the final duel of Episode III and the final duel of Episode VI has something in common (other than being the final duels of their respective trilogies)? The lightsabres being used have the same hilt design. Different colours, but same hilt. Anakin's sabre hilt is identical to Vader's apart from different colour trimmings and Obi-Wan's hilt is nearly identical to Luke's. In both duels, Anakin loses and the very last lightsabre seen to be deactivated at the end of both trilogies is the Luke/Obi-Wan design.design.
* In RevengeOfTheSith, Obi-Wan says to Yoda something along the lines of ''"Anakin is like a brother to me"'' when told to deal with Anakin. In ReturnOfTheJedi, when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan says ''"then the emperor has already won."'' At first, this might seem like hypocrisy on Obi-Wan's part, and it's not like Obi-Wan is above it. However, thinking about it even further, you realize that it implies Obi-Wan simply "learned his lesson" from earlier dealings with Anakin; namely, not to let emotional connections getting in the way of doing what has to be done. Obi-Wan himself "almost" hesitated because of these emotional connections and would understandably want to discourage his later students from making the same mistake. It turns out not to be really necessary, of course, but that just adds to the FridgeBrilliance; Obi-Wan got the wrong impression about what had to be done, because he learned the wrong lessons from past experiences... [=neoYTPism=]
* In RevengeOfTheSith, Obi-Wan says to Yoda something along the lines of ''"Anakin is like a brother to me"'' when told to deal with Anakin. In ReturnOfTheJedi, when Luke says he can't kill his own father, Obi-Wan says ''"then the emperor has already won."'' At first, this might seem like hypocrisy on Obi-Wan's part, and it's not like Obi-Wan is above it. However, thinking about it even further, you realize that it implies Obi-Wan simply "learned his lesson" from earlier dealings with Anakin; namely, not to let emotional connections getting in the way of doing what has to be done. Obi-Wan himself "almost" hesitated because of these emotional connections and would understandably want to discourage his later students from making the same mistake. It turns out not to be really necessary, of course, but that just adds to the FridgeBrilliance; Obi-Wan got the wrong impression about what had to be done, because he learned the wrong lessons from past experiences... [=neoYTPism=]
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* I've been watching these movies, reading the books, and playing the video games literally my whole life, and I can't believe that in all that time I hadn't wondered about this much earlier. But it hit me when I was playing ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' and was introduced to the Wookiee named Zaalbar. If you're a Wookiee and you want to introduce yourself to a human, your ''name'' ought to sound the same in Basic as it does in Shyriiwook, right? So when somebody asks Chewbacca what his name is, and he says "Urf-rawr-growl," people are going to call him "Urf-rawr-growl," right? For people to call Chewbacca or Zaalbar "Chewbacca" and "Zaalbar", the Wookiee would need to be able to make the sounds that make up his name...right? That's how it works with other languages in the SW universe; despite speaking his own language, Greedo still distinctly says "Solo" and "Jabba" in ''ANewHope''.
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* I've been watching these movies, reading the books, and playing the video games literally my whole life, and I can't believe that in all that time I hadn't wondered about this much earlier. But it hit me when I was playing ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' and was introduced to the Wookiee named Zaalbar. If you're a Wookiee and you want to introduce yourself to a human, your ''name'' ought to sound the same in Basic as it does in Shyriiwook, right? So when somebody asks Chewbacca what his name is, and he says "Urf-rawr-growl," people are going to call him "Urf-rawr-growl," right? For people to call Chewbacca or Zaalbar "Chewbacca" and "Zaalbar", the Wookiee would need to be able to make the sounds that make up his name...right? That's how it works with other languages in the SW universe; despite speaking his own language, Greedo still distinctly says "Solo" and "Jabba" in ''ANewHope''.''ANewHope''.
* You ever notice that the final duel of Episode III and the final duel of Episode VI has something in common (other than being the final duels of their respective trilogies)? The lightsabres being used have the same hilt design. Different colours, but same hilt. Anakin's sabre hilt is identical to Vader's apart from different colour trimmings and Obi-Wan's hilt is nearly identical to Luke's. In both duels, Anakin loses and the very last lightsabre seen to be deactivated at the end of both trilogies is the Luke/Obi-Wan design.
* You ever notice that the final duel of Episode III and the final duel of Episode VI has something in common (other than being the final duels of their respective trilogies)? The lightsabres being used have the same hilt design. Different colours, but same hilt. Anakin's sabre hilt is identical to Vader's apart from different colour trimmings and Obi-Wan's hilt is nearly identical to Luke's. In both duels, Anakin loses and the very last lightsabre seen to be deactivated at the end of both trilogies is the Luke/Obi-Wan design.
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** Except, Hitler and the Nazis didn't kill the Jews because of their religion, he didn't much care what they believed in. What HE did kill them for was the fact that they were Jews racially. He believed that genetically, the Jews were inferior and needed to be destroyed, since they were screwing up the gene pool. Which is why he also threw in gypsies and crippled people.
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** Except, Hitler and the Nazis didn't kill the Jews because of their religion, he didn't much care what they believed in. What HE did kill them for was the fact that they were Jews racially. He believed that genetically, the Jews were inferior and needed to be destroyed, since they were screwing up the gene pool. Which is why he also threw in gypsies and crippled people.people.
* I've been watching these movies, reading the books, and playing the video games literally my whole life, and I can't believe that in all that time I hadn't wondered about this much earlier. But it hit me when I was playing ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' and was introduced to the Wookiee named Zaalbar. If you're a Wookiee and you want to introduce yourself to a human, your ''name'' ought to sound the same in Basic as it does in Shyriiwook, right? So when somebody asks Chewbacca what his name is, and he says "Urf-rawr-growl," people are going to call him "Urf-rawr-growl," right? For people to call Chewbacca or Zaalbar "Chewbacca" and "Zaalbar", the Wookiee would need to be able to make the sounds that make up his name...right? That's how it works with other languages in the SW universe; despite speaking his own language, Greedo still distinctly says "Solo" and "Jabba" in ''ANewHope''.
* I've been watching these movies, reading the books, and playing the video games literally my whole life, and I can't believe that in all that time I hadn't wondered about this much earlier. But it hit me when I was playing ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' and was introduced to the Wookiee named Zaalbar. If you're a Wookiee and you want to introduce yourself to a human, your ''name'' ought to sound the same in Basic as it does in Shyriiwook, right? So when somebody asks Chewbacca what his name is, and he says "Urf-rawr-growl," people are going to call him "Urf-rawr-growl," right? For people to call Chewbacca or Zaalbar "Chewbacca" and "Zaalbar", the Wookiee would need to be able to make the sounds that make up his name...right? That's how it works with other languages in the SW universe; despite speaking his own language, Greedo still distinctly says "Solo" and "Jabba" in ''ANewHope''.
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** Except, Hitler and the Nazis didn't kill the Jews because of their religion, he didn't much care what they believed in. What HE did kill them for was the fact that they were Jews racially. He believed that genetically, the Jews were inferior and needed to be destroyed, since they were screwing up the gene pool.
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** Except, Hitler and the Nazis didn't kill the Jews because of their religion, he didn't much care what they believed in. What HE did kill them for was the fact that they were Jews racially. He believed that genetically, the Jews were inferior and needed to be destroyed, since they were screwing up the gene pool. Which is why he also threw in gypsies and crippled people.
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*** Or the Force could have something to do with it.
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* Another thing, and this sort of combines FridgeHorror with FridgeBrilliance... in the original trilogy, Palpatine and Vader seem perfectly aware of the force, and Vader is shown mentioning it to other Imperial officers in ANewHope, but they seem to perceive it as just another religion. However, they (or at least some of them) also seem to be aware that the Jedi were mostly wiped out, as implied by one of Tarkin's conversations with Vader, in which Tarkin says ''"you, my friend, are all that is left of their religion."'' Now think about this in light of the prequel trilogy. ''"Order 66"'' was already [[MoralEventHorizon heinous]], but we know from the context that it was at least somewhat pragmatic; Palpatine wiped out the Jedi because they were the only rivals to himself and Vader in knowledge of the force. Tarkin, however, not believing in the force, is probably unaware that this was the reason. Now think about what he said once more. ''"All that is left of their religion."'' In other words, he [[ANaziByAnyOtherName condones having people rounded up and killed for their religious beliefs]]. Sure, we knew he was [[CompleteMonster bad news]] from the start, [[PoliticallyIncorrectVillain but still]]... - [=neoYTPism=]
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* Another thing, and this sort of combines FridgeHorror with FridgeBrilliance... in the original trilogy, Palpatine and Vader seem perfectly aware of the force, and Vader is shown mentioning it to other Imperial officers in ANewHope, but they seem to perceive it as just another religion. However, they (or at least some of them) also seem to be aware that the Jedi were mostly wiped out, as implied by one of Tarkin's conversations with Vader, in which Tarkin says ''"you, my friend, are all that is left of their religion."'' Now think about this in light of the prequel trilogy. ''"Order 66"'' was already [[MoralEventHorizon heinous]], but we know from the context that it was at least somewhat pragmatic; Palpatine wiped out the Jedi because they were the only rivals to himself and Vader in knowledge of the force. Tarkin, however, not believing in the force, is probably unaware that this was the reason. Now think about what he said once more. ''"All that is left of their religion."'' In other words, he [[ANaziByAnyOtherName condones having people rounded up and killed for their religious beliefs]]. Sure, we knew he was [[CompleteMonster bad news]] from the start, [[PoliticallyIncorrectVillain but still]]... - [=neoYTPism=][=neoYTPism=]
** Except, Hitler and the Nazis didn't kill the Jews because of their religion, he didn't much care what they believed in. What HE did kill them for was the fact that they were Jews racially. He believed that genetically, the Jews were inferior and needed to be destroyed, since they were screwing up the gene pool.
** Except, Hitler and the Nazis didn't kill the Jews because of their religion, he didn't much care what they believed in. What HE did kill them for was the fact that they were Jews racially. He believed that genetically, the Jews were inferior and needed to be destroyed, since they were screwing up the gene pool.
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Awesome revelation I had after seeing the movies as an adult.
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*** Alternatively, it's noted that R2 seemed to have more advanced gadgets in the prequel trilogy that, logically, would have been really useful in the original trilogy (the rocket-boosters, for one). In RealLife, [[RealLifeWritesThePlot it's because they had better technology for special effects for the prequel trilogy]]. In-universe, it could be because R2 is much 'older' in the original trilogy and might have missed some necessary upgrades. Not to mention that R2 and 3P0 were apparently BrainWashed between the two trilogies, so R2 might not even remember some of the awesome things he did in the prequel trilogy.
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*** Alternatively, it's noted that R2 seemed to have more advanced gadgets in the prequel trilogy that, logically, would have been really useful in the original trilogy (the rocket-boosters, for one). In RealLife, [[RealLifeWritesThePlot it's because they had better technology for special effects for the prequel trilogy]]. In-universe, it could be because R2 is much 'older' in the original trilogy and might have missed some necessary upgrades. Not to mention that R2 and 3P0 were apparently BrainWashed Brain Washed between the two trilogies, so R2 might not even remember some of the awesome things he did in the prequel trilogy.
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*** I disagree that R2's mind was wiped. The line at the end of ROTS is "Have the protocol droid's mind wiped." There's no mention of R2-D2 being formatted.
** And to prove the above point: At the beginning of ANH when Luke is cleaning the droids R2 shows his true brilliance. Luke is prying at the data disk that contains the plans to the death star (we saw Leia put it there) and to stop him from getting at it R2 distracts him with the hologram of Leia. But not the whole message just enough to make him curious. The rest of this scene is hard to get unless you listen to what R2 "says" through 3PO. The message is just "old data" and to "pay it no mind." R2 knows, however, that Luke's curiosity is piqued. Then, when Luke attempts to get more of the message to play, R2 tells him he belongs to "Obi-Wan Kenobi - a resident of these parts." Do you see it? He's drilling Luke for information! Then once R2 learns Kenobi lives out beyond the Dune Sea he tells Luke that if he removes the restraining bolt, he might be able to play back the entire recording. Which, of course, he doesn't. He just wanted the bolt off so he could get to Kenobi and deliver the message. I never got how clever R2-D2 was until, after seeing the prequels, I realized he did actually belong to Obi-Wan (sort of). Watching ANH we know that Luke is an important character; but to R2 (at this point in the story) he could care less and just wants to deliver the message to Obi-Wan. -Nuraja
** And to prove the above point: At the beginning of ANH when Luke is cleaning the droids R2 shows his true brilliance. Luke is prying at the data disk that contains the plans to the death star (we saw Leia put it there) and to stop him from getting at it R2 distracts him with the hologram of Leia. But not the whole message just enough to make him curious. The rest of this scene is hard to get unless you listen to what R2 "says" through 3PO. The message is just "old data" and to "pay it no mind." R2 knows, however, that Luke's curiosity is piqued. Then, when Luke attempts to get more of the message to play, R2 tells him he belongs to "Obi-Wan Kenobi - a resident of these parts." Do you see it? He's drilling Luke for information! Then once R2 learns Kenobi lives out beyond the Dune Sea he tells Luke that if he removes the restraining bolt, he might be able to play back the entire recording. Which, of course, he doesn't. He just wanted the bolt off so he could get to Kenobi and deliver the message. I never got how clever R2-D2 was until, after seeing the prequels, I realized he did actually belong to Obi-Wan (sort of). Watching ANH we know that Luke is an important character; but to R2 (at this point in the story) he could care less and just wants to deliver the message to Obi-Wan. -Nuraja
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* Lots of people complain about the Jedi using the clone army, saying that it is immoral and pretty stupid. And I agree. But then you ask why didn't the Republic levy troops from the hundreds of thousands of systems that belong to it? But then I realized: one of the biggest problems with the Republic was its ''corruption''. Most Republic worlds were too damn lazy and cynical to levy troops until their planet gets invaded, and even then wouldn't do anything after. The Republic worlds would rather use a slave army then get their hands dirty. The Jedi did something reprehensible by accepting the clones, but they've spent their entire lives serving the Republic with many in the Republic expecting them to fix their problems, and when there comes a problem that the Jedi cannot handle, the Republic still sits on its ass and compels them to sacrifice their morals to save billions of apathetic citizens from the ruthless droid armies.
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* Lots of people complain about the Jedi using the clone army, saying that it is immoral and pretty stupid. And I agree. But then you ask why didn't the Republic levy troops from the hundreds of thousands of systems that belong to it? But then I realized: one of the biggest problems with the Republic was its ''corruption''. Most Republic worlds were too damn lazy and cynical to levy troops until their planet gets invaded, and even then wouldn't do anything after. The Republic worlds would rather use a slave army then get their hands dirty. The Jedi did something reprehensible by accepting the clones, but they've spent their entire lives serving the Republic with many in the Republic expecting them to fix their problems, and when there comes a problem that the Jedi cannot handle, the Republic still sits on its ass and compels them to sacrifice their morals to save billions of apathetic citizens from the ruthless droid armies.armies.
* Another thing, and this sort of combines FridgeHorror with FridgeBrilliance... in the original trilogy, Palpatine and Vader seem perfectly aware of the force, and Vader is shown mentioning it to other Imperial officers in ANewHope, but they seem to perceive it as just another religion. However, they (or at least some of them) also seem to be aware that the Jedi were mostly wiped out, as implied by one of Tarkin's conversations with Vader, in which Tarkin says ''"you, my friend, are all that is left of their religion."'' Now think about this in light of the prequel trilogy. ''"Order 66"'' was already [[MoralEventHorizon heinous]], but we know from the context that it was at least somewhat pragmatic; Palpatine wiped out the Jedi because they were the only rivals to himself and Vader in knowledge of the force. Tarkin, however, not believing in the force, is probably unaware that this was the reason. Now think about what he said once more. ''"All that is left of their religion."'' In other words, he [[ANaziByAnyOtherName condones having people rounded up and killed for their religious beliefs]]. Sure, we knew he was [[CompleteMonster bad news]] from the start, [[PoliticallyIncorrectVillain but still]]... - [=neoYTPism=]
* Another thing, and this sort of combines FridgeHorror with FridgeBrilliance... in the original trilogy, Palpatine and Vader seem perfectly aware of the force, and Vader is shown mentioning it to other Imperial officers in ANewHope, but they seem to perceive it as just another religion. However, they (or at least some of them) also seem to be aware that the Jedi were mostly wiped out, as implied by one of Tarkin's conversations with Vader, in which Tarkin says ''"you, my friend, are all that is left of their religion."'' Now think about this in light of the prequel trilogy. ''"Order 66"'' was already [[MoralEventHorizon heinous]], but we know from the context that it was at least somewhat pragmatic; Palpatine wiped out the Jedi because they were the only rivals to himself and Vader in knowledge of the force. Tarkin, however, not believing in the force, is probably unaware that this was the reason. Now think about what he said once more. ''"All that is left of their religion."'' In other words, he [[ANaziByAnyOtherName condones having people rounded up and killed for their religious beliefs]]. Sure, we knew he was [[CompleteMonster bad news]] from the start, [[PoliticallyIncorrectVillain but still]]... - [=neoYTPism=]
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*** There's also another point that I realized while I read this. A lot of people (myself included, admittedly) criticized the use of outdated combat tactics with futuristic technology. Except... the vast majority of the small arms in the Star Wars films are portrayed as semi-automatics. Modern infantry tactics weren't really adopted until the mass adaptation of fully automatic rifles for every infantry unit. The tactics before that were really based around mass deployment of a combination of fully automatic weapons and self-loading or bolt-action rifles (the latter greatly outnumbering the former). Even before then, in WWI, tactics were massed around men using bolt-actions being supported by machine guns. The clones and droids fight more like a 19th century army using single-shot rifles. This would be strange, but, as a general rule, that's what they are! The clones use mostly their large rifles, and the CIS droids have a mixture of weapons that have similar capabilities (though Super Battle Droids seem to be top of the line with rapid-fire blasters in their arms shown in AotC). The Clone army does mix things up with more close combat support (shown with the gunships at the end of AotC) instead of going to full auto. It's not that they can't adapt modern tactics, they just haven't had any of our universe's reason to. Compounded with the lack of wars until the prequel trilogy, that's a pretty strong argument for Lucas knowing what he was doing.
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**** Which, according to the (apparently) canon Force Unleashed was created as a XanatosGambit by [[spoiler:Vader]]. Which was a bit of FridgeBrilliance in and on itself -Arzeef
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*** No, actually it was not stupid, not at all. Think about it. Palpatine's goal is not just to turn Luke to the Dark Side, but to turn Luke to the Dark Side ''as his new apprentice''. If he had said nothing and Luke had gone on to kill Vader in anger, that act would have been an act of ''defiance'' against Palpatine - the slaying of Palpatine's apprentice. Luke might have fallen as a result, but he would have fallen as a ''rival dark Jedi'' to Palpatine, and that would have been no good for Palpatine at all. Even if he was confident that he was powerful enough to dispose of Luke, he loses his apprentice (Vader), and gets no replacement. So he had to interject, to test Luke, to make sure that when Luke kills Vader, it is in response to Palpatine's ''own command'', making the act one of ''obedience'' to Palpatine's will, and symbolic of Luke's submission to Palpatine as his new master. If Luke refuses to fall, then Palpatine could kill Luke, and ''keep'' Vader alive. This way, he gets to retain an apprentice, no matter how Luke chooses. His one mistake was failing to anticipate (or perhaps even conceive of the possibility) that Vader would ever, ever, turn on him.
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*** The point I think is that while sure, the Sith were a disease on the living force, ''so were the Old Jedi.'' They had become corrupted and misdirected, ossified, blind, dogmatic and tyrranical. If the Sith are a cancer, then the Old Jedi can become an autoimmune disease. To properly bring balance to the force, ''both'' the Sith and the Old Jedi had to be destroyed, and a new, redeemed Jedi order had to be rebuilt. So Anakin fulfilled the prophecy by destroying both the Old Jedi and the Sith, and fathering Luke and Leia.
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*** The point I think is that while sure, the Sith were a disease on the living force, ''so were the Old Jedi.'' They had become corrupted and misdirected, ossified, blind, dogmatic and tyrranical. If the Sith are a cancer, then the Old Jedi can had become an autoimmune disease. To properly bring balance to the force, ''both'' the Sith and the Old Jedi had to be destroyed, and a new, redeemed Jedi order had to be rebuilt. So Anakin fulfilled the prophecy by destroying both the Old Jedi and the Sith, and fathering Luke and Leia.
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**** The parallel between midichlorians and mitochondria is actually brilliant. Mitochondria are symbiotic bacteria that have are capable of oxidative energy production, which the host cells cannot do on their own. In other words, they provide access for their host through symbiosis to a universal source of energy (the chemical bond in the oxygen molecule) that happens to be the most powerful form of chemical energy in the universe that is available to organic life.
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*** The point I think is that while sure, the Sith were a disease on the living force, ''so were the Old Jedi.'' They had become corrupted and misdirected, ossified, blind, dogmatic and tyrranical. If the Sith are a cancer, then the Old Jedi can become an autoimmune disease. To properly bring balance to the force, ''both'' the Sith and the Old Jedi had to be destroyed, and a new, redeemed Jedi order had to be rebuilt. So Anakin fulfilled the prophecy by destroying both the Old Jedi and the Sith, and fathering Luke and Leia.
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* Also, I'm not sure if this was already mentioned here, (and it's not exactly easy to look through the list) but I think it's arguably FridgeBrilliance that when it comes to lightsaber colours, Qui-Gon uses green, Obi-Wan uses blue, and Luke Skywalker uses blue in TheEmpireStrikesBack and green in ReturnOfTheJedi. [[spoiler:Also, Qui-Gon was more trusting of Anakin than Obi-Wan was, much like how Luke was more trusting of Vader in ReturnOfTheJedi than he was in TheEmpireStrikesBack.]] - [=neoYTPism=]
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* Also, I'm not sure if this was already mentioned here, (and it's not exactly easy to look through the list) but I think it's arguably FridgeBrilliance that when it comes to lightsaber colours, Qui-Gon uses green, Obi-Wan uses blue, and Luke Skywalker uses blue in TheEmpireStrikesBack and green in ReturnOfTheJedi. [[spoiler:Also, Qui-Gon was more trusting of Anakin than Obi-Wan was, much like how Luke was more trusting of Vader in ReturnOfTheJedi than he was in TheEmpireStrikesBack.]] - [=neoYTPism=][=neoYTPism=]
* Lots of people complain about the Jedi using the clone army, saying that it is immoral and pretty stupid. And I agree. But then you ask why didn't the Republic levy troops from the hundreds of thousands of systems that belong to it? But then I realized: one of the biggest problems with the Republic was its ''corruption''. Most Republic worlds were too damn lazy and cynical to levy troops until their planet gets invaded, and even then wouldn't do anything after. The Republic worlds would rather use a slave army then get their hands dirty. The Jedi did something reprehensible by accepting the clones, but they've spent their entire lives serving the Republic with many in the Republic expecting them to fix their problems, and when there comes a problem that the Jedi cannot handle, the Republic still sits on its ass and compels them to sacrifice their morals to save billions of apathetic citizens from the ruthless droid armies.
* Lots of people complain about the Jedi using the clone army, saying that it is immoral and pretty stupid. And I agree. But then you ask why didn't the Republic levy troops from the hundreds of thousands of systems that belong to it? But then I realized: one of the biggest problems with the Republic was its ''corruption''. Most Republic worlds were too damn lazy and cynical to levy troops until their planet gets invaded, and even then wouldn't do anything after. The Republic worlds would rather use a slave army then get their hands dirty. The Jedi did something reprehensible by accepting the clones, but they've spent their entire lives serving the Republic with many in the Republic expecting them to fix their problems, and when there comes a problem that the Jedi cannot handle, the Republic still sits on its ass and compels them to sacrifice their morals to save billions of apathetic citizens from the ruthless droid armies.
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Look where that got us: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=12911386090A37310100
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See [[Fridge/{{Film}} the film section of fridge brilliance examples]] for FridgeBrilliance in StarWars.
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** From that perspective, however, Leia's the biggest hero. The officer would have shot it down if he had known it contained occupants; he was duped. So Leia's the hero for ''knowing'' that she could trick the Imperials by firing off empty escape pods at random, then hiding the all-important droids in one of them.
*** From this perspective you can thank Obi Wan for all this, since he allowed the Organa family to adopt Leia and no doubt raise her into the tough-as-nails princess she is.
*** [[RunningGag From that perspective]], the real hero of the OT doesn't even appear in it, being Qui-Gonn Jinn, without whom Obi-Wan would not have been the man he was. Although one could argue that ''this'' means the true hero is Yoda, for training Count Dooku who trained Qui-Gonn... oh dear.
** For what it's worth, though, even in the framework of the movies, the pod being shot down, destroying [=R2=] and [=3PO=] would still not necessarily imply Luke remaining a farm boy; for all we know, Obi-Wan could have decided to train Luke as a Jedi otherwise. Let's just leave it at that... - [=neoYTPism=]
* Initially, I thought the title "Phantom Menace" referred to the threat of the Sith, and perhaps it does. But watching the movie more in depth, it also refers to Palpatine's scheme, which was all about creating a crisis so that he could become Supreme Chancellor. His original plan was probably
** Get into the Senate as Palpatine, while getting in good graces with the Trade Federation (and others) via a combination of promises/bribes/blackmail.
** Once in the Senate, take a populist, pro-government stance, favoring policies like the "taxation on trade routes" mentioned in the opening movie scrawl that are guaranteed to earn him the ire of powerful companies like the Trade Federation.
** As Sidious, get them to not only do the equivalent of a protest/strike by blockading Naboo (his home world), but to go further, and invade.
** Once the Trade Federation has invaded, get them to kill Queen Amidala.
** Use the outrage generated from her murder to call for a vote of no-confidence in Chancellor Valorum without looking ambitious/greedy.
** Break the blockade.
* It's quite ingenious when you think about it, and the only thing that made it fail was Qui-Gon sensing with the Force that Padme's life was in danger, and convincing her to flee. As a testament to his political skills, Palpatine managed to still make his plan work by getting her to call for the vote of no-confidence in his stead.-Bass
* When Anakin's stepfather is relating to him the story of his mother's capture in AOTC, he says "30 of us went out there, four of us came back". Randomly-selected to point to how grievous the losses were? Not so: the first attack on the Death Star in ANH has 30 fighters attack the massive space station, of which only four return.
** This is only one of some ten million stealth references to the original trilogy strategically placed throughout the prequel trilogy as part of the Anvilicious Foreshadowing. Having said that, some of them - including the example above - are sheer brilliance.
* I just noticed something about the titles of the Star Wars films. Compare:
** The Phantom Menace - A New Hope, both refer to a person of importance.
** Attack of The Clones - The Empire Strikes Back, both refer to attacking.
** Revenge of The Sith - Return of The Jedi, both refer to an old power coming back. - [=HG131=]
*** I can do you one better: Return of the Jedi was originally called "Revenge of the Jedi". It was changed at the last minute. You can find promotional posters with the "revenge" title.
*** The Phantom Menace is actually a fairly clever title if you consider it from the perspective of viewers introduced to the movie post-prequels. They wouldn't be going into the films predisposed to the notion that Palpatine is the true "phantom menace."
* In ''[[StarWars The Phantom Menace]],'' a lot of people complained about the submarine having force-field windows, including me. Then I suddenly realized "Wait a moment. It's a ''Gungan'' submarine. Gungans are amphibious, so for them those windows are a safety feature!" --{{Whitewings}}
** Plus, considering that the planet's oceans go all the way through the core, there's the simple matter that the pressure at depths like that would be too much for any glass to handle.
** While I was always far more forgiving toward the prequels than many people, one part that seemed too dumb to put up with was Anakin's conception: [[CrystalDragonJesus Jesus rip off?]] Born of The Force? Gimme a break. But then Palpatine explained his master's preoccupation, and the stupidest part of the prequel trilogy suddenly became the most ingenious. -- EricDVH
*** What's more, because of Anakin being a product of Darth Plagueis' research (and George Lucas has more or less stated this is canon), Anakin is essentially born of the Dark Side, making his eventual transformation into Darth Vader a sort of dark subversion of the CrystalDragonJesus trope.
** The extended materials extend the quality of it even further. Palpatine killed his master because he believed that his master intended to conceive a child using the Force, and that the child would subsequently kill Palpatine. Palpatine was right. --Wodan46
*** My uncle described a moment of Fridge Brilliance he had with that same conversation. Palpatine described the perspectives of the Jedi and the Sith; the Jedi are inherently selfless, forsaking personal things to benefit the Republic while the Sith are inherently selfish, "Treachery is the way of the Sith." Yet the Sith learned to control the force to create life and prevent death. The Jedi found a way to achieve immortality for themselves after death. Both are essentially contrary to the philosophical beliefs of the two factions, one discovering a power to help others and one discovering a power to benefit themselves. --{{KJMackley}}
*** I was also confused by the contradiction of the ultimate expressions of the Light and Dark sides of the Force. It didn't make sense that the ultimate expression of the Light side was a form of immortality for oneself, while the ultimate expression of the Dark side was a technique to create life and preserve others. Then it occurred to me: the power of the Light side isn't about benefiting yourself; it's about becoming a part of the living Force itself to act as a guide for others. The main reason Force Ghosts exist is to guide the living. It's the ultimate act of selflessness, helping others even from beyond. OTOH, the ultimate power of the Dark side, creating life, represents the complete subjugation of the Force. It grants the Sith power over both life and death, essentially making him/her into a god. The Light is about acceptance and harmony with the Force, becoming part of it, and the Dark is about defying and controlling it. - M84
**** The whole Force Ghost thing, when you put it that way, is fairly reminiscent of the Buddhist concept of Bodhisattvas, people who are virtuous enough to get out of the reincarnation cycle and move on to Nirvana, but choose to stay behind and help others achieve Nirvana, which is a very interesting paralell with all the other Buddhist elements incorporated into Jedi Philosophy. I could be wrong about some of the Buddhism stuff, as I'm remembering it from a class I took four years ago, and I only took the time to use Wikipedia for spell-checking, not fact-checking. ~ UnitedShoes37
** Little worried I'm misusing the phrase, but here goes: Jar Jar Binks. I was indifferent at first, then annoyed, then I watched ''The Phantom Menace'' again three days ago. I realized Jar Jar was not an idiot, nor hyper, nor a total goofball, just a poor, clumsy guy who was always in the wrong way at the wrong time. He was even capable of solemnity, at certain points, even in Episode I. Now, I actually respect Jar Jar as a decent member of the group! And then, in a further bit of Fridge Brilliance, I realized that Lucas probably didn't mean anything by using semi-real accents for certain species! These races likely didn't have Basic as their first language. They're probably taught something else during their childhood. The language shapes the mouth, and gives the accent, and do you expect a writer to make an accent up out of thin air? He's going to borrow from something he's seen! So no offense was meant! -- Lhikan
*** Yeah well, lots of people are racist and sexist and all those other things without meaning to be. And I say that as an avowed prequel fan who ''never'' hated Jar Jar. --TrickyPacifist
*** I'm a little on the first Troper's side, given that I figured out the same idea on my own before ever seeing TPM.
*** I just figured Jar Jar was clumsy on land because he's an aquatic creature. Whenever he's in the water, he's swift and certain in his movements. (at least in the tv series, I can't remember if he's ever in the water in the movies.)
*** He's in the water in TPM when leading the Jedi to the Gungan city. He's fairly good at swimming there. He also has a magnificent dive.
*** My father is not a fan of the PT, but he liked the CG-animation that went into making Jar-Jar. He thought as a interacting being, Jar-Jar absolutely worked. - [[{{Tropers.Premonition45}} Premonition_45]]
**** It really did at that: people hate Jar-Jar for being a [[TheScrappy a scrappy]] klutz used to deliver unfunny comic relief and for the unfortunate implications of his accent, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain that his FXs were poor, or that he wasn't convincing when he interacted with the non-CG characters.
*** I always took Jar Jar as a metaphor for what the prequels are about. In Phantom Menace he is comedy relief mostly, showing that despite what is going on this is a rather good time, people are happy and able to live. In Attack of the Clones he grows out of it a little, become more responsible, mirroring what is happening in the galaxy. And by Revenge when everything has gone to crap, Jar Jar is nho longer comedy relief at all.
** In an early interview with the "actor" playing Jar Jar Binks, the actor mentioned that he had Jamaican relatives and was having fun doing a lighthearted parody of them as his inspiration for the character. Is it racist [[NWordPrivileges if you are joking about your own race]]?
*** And who would expect a small town boy like George Lucas to recognize the UnfortunateImplications of it?
** While I always liked the TPM, there was one thing that I think I completely misunderstood. At first, the Jedi Council is dead set against training Anakin, because he is too old, and there are all those Mommy issues... Then, in the end, the Council agrees, though Yoda still is against it. I always thought that they agreed because it was Qui-Gon's last wish and they maybe felt that they owed him. Or something. But, that wasn't the reason. At least, it wasn't the only reason. Anakin is the Chosen One (the Council never really doubted that after testing him) who is supposed to bring balance, that means, eradicate the Sith. First, when Qui-Gon tells about his encounter with Darth Maul on Tatooine and that he thinks Maul is a Sith, Mace Windu is incredulous. The Sith died out, he thinks. Without Sith, they don't need a Chosen One who is a potential loose cannon. But, when Yoda makes states the Council's decision in the end, he also explains that Darth Maul was indeed a Sith, they are sure of that now. And that is why the Council changed their minds. And, since there will be a second Sith, they will actually ''need'' The Chosen One. So he must be trained. It had nothing to do with Qui-Gon dying, but with realizing there actually was a ''Phantom Menace'' out there and they could not do without Anakin. - Liliedhe
*** Holy shit.
**** I second that. Holy crap on a cracker that's effing brilliant.
*** Yes, and if the Jedi Council took him in, then he wouldn't be out in the wild for the Sith to grab. But then Palpatine performs his simple workaround.
*** But the workaround failed in the end. Anakin ended up being the one who tossed Palpatine in the pit and, by returning to the Light Side, destroyed the Sith utterly. Even when Luke turned to the Dark Side, he did not become a Sith. Anakin's whole reason for existing was tied up in that one CMO; even to the point of making his EMO years integral to the end result - he had to cross over for a time to defeat Palpatine.
**** There's a school of thought on this, given explicit voice to in the novelization of ''Revenge of the Sith'', which postulates that the Chosen One prophecy was misinterpreted by the Jedi. The Jedi Order had become moribund and was allied with a corrupt government; the Jedi themselves were out of balance with the Force. The Choose One, who would bring Balance to the Force would have to destroy the Jedi Order, as well as the Sith before balance could be restored. So, the Chosen One did fulfill the prophecy, just not in the way anyone -Jedi or Sith- expected.
***** I realized, about the time of the third movie, when i was depressed utterly with Lucas' lost talent, that he wasn't as terrible as i thought. "Balance to the force" -- how can it be balanced when there are two dark-practitioners and hundreds that follow the light? He manages to balance it on a fundamental, simple level: by bringing the Jedi in line with the Sith, only having a master and an apprentice (Yoda and Obi-Wan) remain. 2=2, thus balanced.
**** This has been brought up before (in fact, I'm pretty sure it's mentioned somewhere on this page already), but that's not what he meant by "balance". It means destroying the Sith because they're, as Palpatine alluded to, unnatural.
** At first I thought the midichlorians in ''StarWars'' was a stupid way to explain away the Force. But then I realized that ''StarWars'' is a combination of science fiction and fantasy, with your wizards flying in starships and whatnot. So, the magic of the Force having scientific roots is very fitting, and it explains why everybody in the StarWars universe doesn't use the Force, because they can't. Even then, the Force is not generated by the midichlorians, the Force is still that mystical energy that surrounds and binds us, but the best way for humans to use it is to quiet your mind and listen to your midichlorians, who just happen to be the best conductors of the energetic Force. -{{washington213}}
*** The whole midichlorian thing always bothered me too until I thought about it. The way I interpreted it was that the force was all about binding the universe together, symbiosis and balance and what not, and that midichlorians were an expression of that. Without midichlorians, sentient life would have no concept of the force, and without life forms as a host the midichlorians could not survive. For the force to work, you need both of them supporting each other. The force is still mystical, as the midichlorians are merely the connection, but I found it to be a very meaningful plot point. -darksider
**** It would have been even more meaningful of a plot point if George Lucas hand't lost his nerve and kept the elements of the script which dealt with the racial animosity between the Naboo humans and the Gungans. In the end, the two overcome their differences and work together to defeat the Trade Federation. The theme is still present in the final cut, but because the explicitly racial element was removed, one has to pick up on bits and pieces of subtext and probably read some of the supporting material before the FridgeLogic comes together. And this is why George Lucas should not direct his own scripts.
*** And I recently had a Fridge Brilliance moment about people saying midichlorians [[DoingInTheWizard explains away the Force]]: some of ''the denizens of the Star Wars universe'' think this. How could Han not believe in the Force even though he grew up in the Old Republic? He thinks it's all midichlorians! -Duke
*** A big problem with it for me is that it made being a Jedi predetermined instead of a matter of choice or skill, down to how powerful the Jedi is. That pretty much neuters the religious aspect of it. -Impudent Infidel
** I'm partial to the explanation that midichlorians aren't in any way force generators. A high midichlorian count is simply a symptom of somebody being highly sensitive to the force. - SkarmoryThePG
** or it can simply NOT be Midichlorians. Think about it. if the Force is comparable to a religion they might not know everything about the Force so they use midichlorians to try to make since of it. The prequels were all about talking about the Old Jedi's foolishness
** I realized the reason I hate the midichlorian explanation is because ''we already had an explanation.'' Yoda said that the Force was a field created from all living things. That's fine- it's mystical and far out there, but we've already seen it move things around and guide Luke and what-not. Now, we're told that somehow it's ''bacteria''? We've already seen bacteria in our universe, and it doesn't do any of the things the Force does. It's just like in Star Trek when the writers use Technobabble terms you recognize- it breaks the illusion.
*** Ah, but what if the Midichlorian are Bacteria who are strong with the Force? I always interpreted Midichlorians as being an indicator, rather than a cause. Midichlorians like the Force, therefore they live in people who are strong with the Force. What always amused me about them was how their names sound passingly similar to Mitochrondrion, the organelles in cells that are described as "cellular power plants."
*** EXACTLY. Midichlorians are '''not''' the Force. They can only communicate with it. They basically do the same thing on a microscopic level what we thought Luke and others were doing in the original movies.--Tapol.
*** Think of them more as sense organs, like ears or eyes. 1 eye or ear allows you to see light/hear sound, 2 allows you to triangulate. Insects have compound eyes, prey animals like rabbits/deer have them either side of their head instead of both up front for near 360 degree vision. Midichlorians allow you to sense the force, the more you have, the closer to compound eyes/360 vision you have.
** I juuust realized that the R2 units on X-Wings are supposed to emulate the round observation dome on top of bombers. -- {{Tropers/Jonn}}
** A moment of FridgeBrilliance for myself was the pre-emptive realization that The Chosen One was always fated to destroy the Jedi Order. Even though the Jedi interpret the legend to fortell the end of the Sith, they are always careful to explicitly state: "The Chosen One will ''bring balance to the force''." At the time of Anakin's arrival, there are a tiny number of Sith and vast numbers of Jedi. Hence, to balance the force Anakin must kill most of the Jedi. By the original Star Wars trilogy we know of only two Sith (Palpatine and Vader) and two remaining Jedi (Obi-Wan and Yoda). -- Pak
*** I thought this, too, until I stumbled across something George Lucas says in
**** Actually, YES you DO treat some medical conditions by injuring a person further. Especially with CANCER. Think about it. What is surgery? It's cutting a person open. The fact that you sew them up afterward notwithstanding. We're just so used to the idea that it seldom occurs to us that that is what surgery is. The other major way cancer is treated is by poisoning the patient, with a poison that (we hope) will affect the cancerous tissue more than it affects healthy tissue. We call this 'chemotherapy'. -- auswelter
*** WordOfGod or not, I disagree: I had a similar moment to Pak's: 2 Sith + balance = ...2 Jedi. (Ooops!) Given the way the phrase was so clearly and constantly used, I see it as a combination of arrogance and blindness on the part of the Jedi that made them assume that "balance" would mean "we win" (and would therefore be a ''good'' thing, instead of the prophecy of disaster it turned out to be). -- diannelamerc
**** While I agree that there is a certain attraction to the idea that "bringing balance to the Force" doesn't just mean destroying the Sith and may not even be something good, that equal numbers reasoning never appealed to me. Jedi and Sith are the main organizations of Force-users, by they do not, in their totality, constitute the Force itself. Even just between Jedi and Sith, there's a lot more that goes into "balance" than how many living adherents each side can boast. [[FridgeLogic Equalizing the number of Jedi and the number of Sith = bringing balance to the ''Force''? I think not]]. -- TrickyPacifist
**** I had the same idea, thinking the "Balance" aspect was in fact Luke: A Jedi who could be fueled by his Emotions, but at the same time keep from being controlled by them. His defeat of Vader at the climax of [=RotJ=] seemed to be the prime example of that.
**** Just to add even more confusion, there's the issue of the so-called True Sith, who live in the Unknown Regions. That's two Sith orders to one Jedi order. And the True Sith are only mentioned in the [=KotOR=] games. How's that for FridgeBrilliance? -MutantRancor
**** While I agree that Bringing Balance wasn't likely to be reducing the number of Jedi to equal the number of Sith, I always viewed the Jedi as fallen or failed. The Force is Life and exists in the myriad of shades of grey. Having only good would lead to an ineffectual Ivory Tower or totalitarian utopian society. Thus the Old Jedi order also needed to be removed to allow the Force to from freely through the universe without being shoehorned into a "human" flawed morality system. -NightHaunter
**** Bringing Balance to the force could be the galaxy's reset button. The [=KotOR=] games mention a Sith version of the chosen one. if both chosen ones are one in the same, then the job is reciprocated both ways. only a few jedi and dark jedi survive to spark their respective sides of the force after the prophecy comes true. this can be more than a one time occurrence,chosen ones for multiple eras. Arguably Darth Revan fits the bill.
**** It's interesting to note that the movies do not refer to a "light side", only a "dark side" -- it may not be quite right to think of the Jedi and Sith as some sort of gnostic opposites, but rather to think of the Jedi as the "balance" state, and Sith as a symptom of "imbalace" -- perhaps even imagining the two Sith as two extremes in an Aristotelian sense, with the Sith Master representing cold, calculating control, and the apprentice representing brutal strength.
**** Also, don't forget that the way one becomes the Sith Master is by killing the previous Sith Master. And at the end of ''Return of the Jedi'', Darth Vader kills Palpatine followed by Luke killing Vader (by removing his helmet). So one could argue that at the end, Luke is both the last remaining Jedi AND the last remaining Sith.
**** Alternatively, Luke is neither. He never finished his Jedi training. Vader killed Obi Wan, Palpatine and himself, while Yoda died on his own. No Jedi left, no Sith left. Balance! -- {{Tenebrais}}
**** Except Yoda told Luke in Return "Your training is done, now GTFO!" So yeah. Plus, on the BalanceBetweenGoodAndEvil argument, explain how this balance could have existed for the some millenia that the Dark Jedi didn't show up in and why if that balance was so necessary that Darth Bane would enforce the Rule of Two?
**** Vader killed Palpatine not out of aggression, but to save his son. At that point he had forsaken his sith training, fulfilled the prophecy, and brought balance to the force. Luke removing Vader's mask always felt more like fulfilling his father's dying request or at worst assisted suicide.
**** What I personally think on the matter of the "balance issue" is that it is essentially a reset button. We mustn't focus on the fact that all the Jedi and Sith died but WHY they died. This reason is misuse of the Force. This is more obvious in the Sith than in the Jedi. The Jedi are steadfast in their old ways without being open to new ones and adapting likewise. In fact think of it this way: an organization who only accepts infants as members whom they will then train to use a specific elite skill-set that cannot be used by those not chosen, they are also taught a strict set of beliefs that includes forbidding them from exhibiting emotion and having children of their own, any deviation from this and they are "turned to the dark side" and their former peers are sent to eliminate them as an enemy; all for the sake of order. Not how they would have you believe it. But this inability to adapt and quest for order and control indicates a misuse of the Force. The sentient Force would therefore have balance be to get rid of these old ideas that seem to have strayed from the point and unfortunately it is so ingrained the extermination is required. Cue Anakin. His wiping out of the Jedi and then of Palpatine led the way for Luke to create the New Jedi Order which was open and inclusive. Essentially Order 66 and Anakin's final act before dieing can be likened to the Great Flood of the Noah's Arc story. Also it should be noted that the only people distinguishable after becoming one with the Force, have all at some point embraced this concept: Qui-gon Jin was willing to train Anakin even though he was older and made an illegal bet because it was necessary, Obi-wan was also willing to train Anakin and Luke and also harbored emotions for Anakin (more brotherly bond than a student-teacher one), Yoda eventually trained Luke out of necessity despite his age and emotional state, and Anakin himself for too many reasons to count. Wow. That is one massive wall of text! -- youngcosette
**** Personally I've always seen it more as '''Palpatine''' being the imbalance in the Force. I mean, think about it, the Force isn't in balance when Palpatine and Vader die, there's still Luke, who is a Jedi. Going by the view that it's about the Jedi/Sith being in balance, there's simply no evidence that the Force is in balance, because there are more Jedi than Sith at the end of the movies. Plus, as the Star Wars {{EU}} shows us, the Jedi aren't the be all and end all of Force users, thery're just the most famous group. So yeah, Palps is the imbalance, because when he dies, the Force is balanced once more.
** In Episode II, I always hated the scene where Anakin relates to Padme what happened when he went to rescue his mother from the Tusken Raiders. I chalked this hate up to either bad acting or bad writing, because Anakin seemed to do so much emotional flip-flopping in the film that I couldn't get a good bead on his character. It wasn't until I watched the DVD version of the film and noticed an extra few seconds at the end of that scene (which I don't think was in the theatrical version, though I may have simply overlooked it) in which Padme says something along the basic lines of "everyone is human" that I realized that the reason for Anakin's grief was not the slaughtered Tusken (which he proclaims rather fiercely to hate), but his own failing as a Jedi (who is supposed to be impervious to that sort of strong emotion). - RianWinters
** I never liked the Prequel Trilogy, but then I watched them all back to back...AND THEY'RE BRILLIANT! Mostly if you look into the character of Anakin. First the annoying little kid? Even as a child you see the seeds of his turning over to the dark side. He has zero respect for authority, and this comes from him being a slave having to out smart his master. We see this, even in Episode 1, when the kid has the balls to STEAL A STAR FIGHTER AND ATTACK THE DROID CONTROL SHIP! But here's the kicker to me, this distrust of authority seems to actually have more to do with the light side than the dark side. In Episode 2, we see that Anakin is rebellious, but basically good (indeed it may be the Jedi trying to crush this rebellious streak that leads him to the dark side). In Episode 3, we see him openly espousing Crypto-fascist ideas, before submitting himself to the authority of Palpatine. He sticks to this worshipful reverence of Palpatine through out the original trilogy, and his moment of redemption is when he kills Palpatine. Also the way the Prequel Trilogy plays out like a mirror image of the Original is interesting too. In the first episode of the Prequel Trilogy we see a Hopeful world, but with a little bit of darkness hiding in the background, in the first of the Original Trilogy we see a dark world, but with a little bit of hope hiding in the background. By the end of the Prequel Trilogy the darkness basically overwhelms the hope, and by the end of the OT, Hope wins out. -JohniBoi
** Something that I realized while watching the third movie about how R2 was able to destroy 2 super battle droids without any problem. He was lifted into the air and after spurting oil at them was able to use a jetpack like apperatus and not only escape but set the oil on fire to destroy the other droids. This scene was so awesome that I didn't bother to think about it, but later I wondered why R2 didn't ever use those things in the older movies, but then I realized that he couldn't. He was a rebel droid in the first trilogy and they most likely didn't have the funds to spend on maxing out a single Astrodroid. Not only that, but after he joined the rebels he was just another droid instead of general Skywalkers personal droid which mostlikely came with special privledges. Without his status he most likely put aside and while in the service of Leia he wasn't given his past armaments.
*** R2 droids are made to be highly modular, and R2-D2's had a large amount of owners. They've likely changed his equipment loadout over time, as well, compounding why his enhancements seem so eclectic from movie to movie.
*** Alternatively, it's noted that R2 seemed to have more advanced gadgets in the prequel trilogy that, logically, would have been really useful in the original trilogy (the rocket-boosters, for one). In RealLife, [[RealLifeWritesThePlot it's because they had better technology for special effects for the prequel trilogy]]. In-universe, it could be because R2 is much 'older' in the original trilogy and might have missed some necessary upgrades. Not to mention that R2 and 3P0 were apparently BrainWashed between the two trilogies, so R2 might not even remember some of the awesome things he did in the prequel trilogy.
*** 3PO was mindwiped, R2 wasn't.
** Last summer a friend of mine and I watched all six of the films in order (i.e. Episodes I-VI) and realized that the story isn't about Luke, like you might think it is, ''it's about Anakin, his downfall, and his redemption.'' She spent a full half hour trying to talk through her intense feelings about it; then again, she also had just spent fourteen hours watching, but when you realize that, it is a very powerful story.
** Even though all of the villains of the OT all die before the end, Luke Skywalker (the hero of the films) does not kill any of them directly. The only one he even kills indirectly is Grand Moff Tarkin, who could've survived if he'd evacuated before Luke blew up the Death Star. Boba Fett? Han Solo knocks him into the Sarlaac pit. Jabba the Hutt? Choked by Leia. Admiral Pratt? A-wing crashes into the bridge of his ship. Emporer Palpatine? Thrown down a shaft by Vader. Darth Vader? Electrocuted by Palpatine as he's thrown down the shaft (or he had Luke remove his mask in a form of suicide, YMMV).
** A just-realized moment of my own: The "Vader" in Darth Vader is, in the real world, the Dutch word for "Father." In the Original Trilogy, this was merely a foreshadowing hint to Vader's true identity. However, in the Prequel Trilogy, where Palpatine grants him the name, the father meaning seems to not be present. But then I realized: Anakin's fall to the Dark Side resulted because of his desire to save his wife and unborn child. He fell because he was acting as a husband and father. The name Vader takes on a much greater meaning now I realize that. -- {{Sgamer82}}
** Also, when Palpatine probably gave Vader that name thinking that Anakin, a being of nearly unlimited power in the Force, would become the "father" of the new order of Sith.
*** Actually, according to WordOfGod, the "Vader is Luke's father" element didn't exist at the time the first film was written (in fact, it wasn't even in the first draft of ''Empire''!), so that really must be chalked up to coincidence. --StarManta
**** Since The Force in ''A New Hope'' is portrayed as an "old religion" and Vader as a sort of Imperial cleric, it is quite likely Vader meant Farther in the priestly sense. Fridge Brilliance indeed!
** This one concerns the [[WallBanger much-derided]] moment in ''Return of the Jedi'' when Palpatine congratulates Luke on losing control of his anger, [[YourApprovalFillsMeWithShame thus reminding Luke that he had to control himself]]. It seems like a moment of complete idiocy on Palpatine's part... ''and it is''. That moment illustrates why the Sith's adherence to their own emotions can be a weakness instead of the strength they claim it is: without Jedi self-control, Palpatine couldn't contain his glee at being so close to his ultimate goal... and that momentary lapse made him lose it all. --{{Anomaly}}
** I finally understands (he thinks) what Yoda was trying to say to Anakin the last time they spoke together: He didn't want Anakin to let go of his ''attachments'', as much as he wanted him to let go of ''his fear'' that stemmed from them. Anakin was blinded by it pretty much since the visions started. He was so focused on avoiding or preventing the danger that he never thought to ''identify'' it, and recognize it when it came. He blindly latched onto the first hand that reached out, and thus damned the galaxy for almost twenty years.
** For the absolute ''longest'' time, I was of the opinion that Anakin only wanted to become a fully-fledged Jedi because he just wanted power. Then I realised that in Episode II, he has recurring dreams about his mother suffering - ''he wanted to save his mother'', and he couldn't get out of his Jedi commitments when still a Padawan. When he goes to save her and fails completely, it starts to break him. In Episode III, he still wants to be a master so he can have more time with Padme and his future children, but the council still don't let him because he's unstable.
*** The novelization makes this motivation explicit. It's not the only thing it clears up either. The reason the prequels are regarded so poorly is because George Lucas took too much of the subtext, background, and motivation for his characters for granted and never bothered to explain to the audience what was going on half the time. This was likely an effect of having lived in this world and with these characters for YEARS; Lucas was so close to the materal he lost the ability to asses it objectively. Had he let another director handle the prequels it is likely they would have been far superior in quality, and not nearly as loathed as they are (at least among the general public, I'm sure just as many fanboys would be [[FanDumb upset]] at the new movies upsetting the {{Fanon}})
** One of the biggest things everybody mocks the prequel trilogy for is the chemistry, or lack thereof, between Anakin and Padme. But it occurred to me that Anakin's awkwardness with Padme, especially in Episode II, is entirely [[JustifiedTrope understable]]: he's been part of a monastic order since the age of nine. Of course he's not gonna be a Don Juan. He's a WarriorMonk-in-training! And as Bill Murray said in ''{{Stripes}}'', "Did you ever see a monk get wildly fucked by some teenage girls?".
*** Doesn't save Padme's awkwardness with him, though. Or the fact that she shows no discernible reaction when he reveals to her ''he's a mass murderer of Sand People.''
**** Well, she had been in the public eye from a young age, and had never gotten much time for more intimate relationships until AOTC.
**** Yeah, Padme's been [[{{TheWomanWearingTheQueenlyMask}} the woman wearing the Queenly mask]] since she was [[AChildShallLeadThem fourteen]]. She had to learn how to mask, and at times [[TheStoic hide]] her emotions in order to be taken seriously. Being ruled by her emotions was a big no-no.--ncfan
***** Overlooking some of the dialogue/plot issues the prequels had in some places, I've always thought Padme was a great foil to Anakin. He was a man who couldn't let go of his personal attachments for the sake of the higher cause; she was a woman who had sacrificed so much of herself for the greater good that she hardly had anything personal to speak of. She was always strong in her moral convictions, but Anakin's passionate endeavor hit her right where she was weakest.
** I was pondering why the robots in the ''Star Wars'' series are all called "droids"; most of them are about as far from traditional androids as you can get. And then it hit me: "an" also means "opposite of", so the opposite of an android would be, logically, a "droid"! The genuinely humanoid ones like [=C3PO=] are noticeably rare and probably a more recent invention than the other types, by sheer virtue of their complexity. OK, so Anakin was able to create one from scratch, but he's a freaking genius. That was kind of the point.
*** Saying Anakin built 3PO from scratch is a bit of a stretch. We know from the films there are other droids like him in existence (several show in the original trilogy and a couple more in the prequels). It's more likely Anakin found the pieces of several junked units and managed to rebuild a working unit out of them. Still pretty good for a seven year old, but it's far from the [[TheWesley Wesley Crusher]] territory most people assumed it was in.
*** A comic (linked to in ThankTheMaker) shows Anakin found the structure mostly intact.
*** Except the "andr" in ''android'' comes from the Greek word for ''man'', and the "oid" means ''like''. So it would literally mean robots in the StarWars universe are so called because of their resemblance to the letters "d" and "r" - brilliance!
** I realized the title ''The Phantom Menace'' is brilliant. It refers not only to the Sith, who are returning unbeknownst to the Jedi, and also to Anakin! Anakin is, or will be, a great threat to the Jedi, but nobody knows it yet!
*** You may be right, though I've always thought it to refer, in all likelihood, to the opening dialogue:
---> "I've got a bad feeling about this."
---> "Really? I don't sense anything at all!"
---> "It's not about the mission, master: it's something...elsewhere...elusive...."
**** But those things could both be the same thing! The "something" ''could be'' the Sith and/or Anakin! That's how I always saw it, anyway?
** At the end of ''Revenge of the Sith'', we all know that Obi Wan totally misses possibly his best opportunity to finish off Vader once and for all. There's a few explanations attempted (he sensed Palpatine coming, etc.), but he ''still'' could've taken the, what, second and a half it would've taken to finish off Anakin, right? Then I read this sentence in IfYouKillHimYouWillBeJustLikeHim: "On the other hand, if a Jedi is completely calm, unswayed by anger or fear, they can kill without risk of falling to the Dark Side." At that moment, Obi Wan is ''overcome'' by fear and anger, because of the betrayal of his apprentice and friend. He ''couldn't'' have killed Anakin in that moment without risking falling to the Dark Side himself. -- MrDeath
** There didn't seem to be much reason behind the battle of Naboo (aside from providing action sequences) until I watched all of the movies back to back. Once the movies are seen in order, It is much easier to see the subtleties of the ultimate plot and how Palpatine really was manipulating everything from the very start.
*** The battle of Naboo was a a XanatosGambit by Palpatine, and a particularly cunning one at that; so well crafted was the gambit that the movie's viewers, who were privy to information that the protagonists were not, couldn't recognize the gambit for what it was until years later. That's right, Palpatine is such a MagnificentBastard that his Xanatos Gambits [[BreakingTheFourthWall break the 4th wall!]]
*** That's my personal point of FridgeBrilliance with StarWars. Whether or not he deserved it, Palpatine certainly EARNED his Empire. He orchestrated an entire war. He told the Trade Federation to blockade THE PLANET HE WORKED FOR, to force a vote to implant him as Chancellor. He urged the Seperatists to separate, while urging the Republic to bring them back in, to start a conflict. He orchestrated wide-scale conflict -- CONTROLLING BOTH SIDES -- without being caught by authorities other than Anakin, ever. He made his own treason look like others' treason, thus granting him the final push he needed for the reorganization of the Senate, plus the PR reasoning behind Order 66. And once the Senate finally noticed what seemed to be going on, he had the power to destroy the organization itself, as Tarkin noted on the Death Star: "The Emperor has dissolved the Senate. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away." All Palpatine didn't control, in the movies, were the Rebels. Brilliant. --Aescula
** While watching The Clone Wars movie just now it came to the point where Anakin and Ahsoka are coming out of hyperspace after rescuing Jabba's son and on approach to Tatooine (this is before the space battle with the two magnaguards). Anakin says something to the effect of "Tatooine, I wish I wouldn't have to see this dustball again." Followed by a prompt from Ahsoka asking about what happened and Anakin not wanting to talk about it. It came to me that this interaction is probably the very reason why Anakin never found Luke and Obi-Wan, he never approached Tatooine in the 20 years since ROTS. Now this was something I'd already known, but it's another thing that shows how clever the "Clone Wars" writers can be.
** In Empire Strikes Back, when Han is tortured by the Empire on Cloud City, he says "They never even asked me any questions." When I saw the movie as a kid, I thought they were just being mean, because that's what Bad Guys do. Years later when re-watching, I realized that the purpose for the torture was to create psychic bait for Luke. Because he saw visions of the future while he was still on Dagobah, we've already seen him respond to what's happening to them now!
** I thought Anakin's Force-choking Padme was done perfectly. Everybody knows since Anakin turns to the Dark Side, he'll Force-choke someone for the first time. But who? Obi-Wan? [[TheScrappy Jar Jar]]? Nope, it was Padme. Anakin's love, and his moral anchor. The only one who was stopping Anakin from completely slipping into darkness. It definitely plays into the perspective that Darth Vader is a damned Anakin Skywalker, and every time we see him choke someone in the OT, he's reliving that tragic moment where he lost his love. - [[{{Premonition45}} Premonition_45]]
*** And illustrating that point of reliving that moment is this scene in ''ANewHope'':
---->'''Motti:''' [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech Don't try to fighten us with your sorceror's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure the stolen datatapes. Or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebels' hidden fortre-]]
---->(''Vader raises his hand and starts Force-choking Motti'')
---->'''Vader:''' I find your lack of faith disturbing.
*** After watching ''RevengeOfTheSith'', you'll see that Motti was right. Turning to the Dark Side didn't do the one thing Anakin was hoping it would do.
**** Maybe that's why it made Vader get so chokey.
** Up until ROTS, this troper used to think Vader's black lenses were [[ExactlyWhatItSaysOnTheTin just that]]. But as his mask is being lowered, we see the lenses show red and black LCD. Red and black were the two dominant colors of Mustafar, so as Vader, Anakin sees the world looking just like the one which changed him forever. It lends a greater impact to his line "Let me look on you with my own eyes". - [[{{Premonition45}} Premonition_45]]
*** It also looks like fire as we see the mask descending over him, symbolizing Anakin's descent into Hell.--ncfan
** After a few ties watching the Yoda vs Palpatine fight scene I saw something, at the very end, just as Yoda manages to deflect the final force attack, you see him reeling back from it, and just before he rebounds and deflects it you can see his expression change, he is PISSED, and it's this surge of anger that gives him the ability to save himself at the last second, and also why he ran immediatly after, it wasn't that he didn't have the power to challenge him, but that he realized he couldn't do so without falling to unleashing the anger at what Palpatine had managed to do, and why no Jedi alive at the time stood a chance, it was just too personal. They needed to wait for a strong force user for who Palpatine's deeds wouldn't be so immediately personal.
*** This idea actually reinforced earlier in the same movie, since there WAS a Jedi who managed to overpower Palpatine in combat: Mace Windu, a Jedi that invented his own form of lightsaber combat that feeds off of raw emotion and strays dangerously close to the Dark Side.
** I realized something about the OT: Luke's first and last spoken lines in the OT have to do with choice. In ''ANH'', when we first meet Luke, his Aunt Beru asks him to remind him to tell his Uncle Owen to make sure a translator droid can speak Bocce, to which Luke says "Doesn't look like we have much of a choice, but I'll remind him". And towards the end of ''ROTJ'', he says "Father, I won't leave you" as his redeemed father Anakin dies. - [[{{Tropers.Premonition45}} Premonition_45]]
** There is one very powerful theme that crosses almost the entire saga and can only be fully understood by putting both trilogies together. In Episode III Obi-Wan suggests that he raises Luke himself while Yoda says no, that he should be raised outside of the Jedi life. This is elaborated more in the novelization, where Yoda believes that he lost the duel with Sidious because he had spent his life trying to hold on to past Jedi tradition while the Sith learned to evolve. In the case of Anakin, the Jedi life was forced upon him and he constantly resented it (taken away from his mother, forbidden from marrying Padme, etc). Because of this, whenever he made a personal choice he was always worried of the backlash. In the case of Luke, when offered the chance to leave Tatooine he told Obi-Wan that he has responsibilities on the farm. Obi-Wan's reply (with a distinct sense of regret) was "You must do what you feel is right." And when Luke approached Yoda, the little guy practically made Luke beg to be trained, to ensure that he wasn't going to go at it half-assed. Because of this, whenever Luke made a personal choice he always seemed to do so with resolve and dedication. And then in the ExpandedUniverse Luke's new Jedi Order emphasized the importance of evolution and learning over ancient tradition. The ''StarWars'' saga is a message about the dangers of blind tradition and the importance of personal choice. GeorgeLucas said he wanted to tell his story, and this is what it is. --KJMackley
*** And one line that perfectly enhances that theme is in ''ANewHope''. When Luke is disappointed to learn that Han and Chewie will not stay to help the Rebels fight the Death Star, Leia tells him that "He [Han] has got to follow his own path. No one can choose it for him." - [[{{Tropers.Premonition45}} Premonition_45]]
*** It also explains the "bring balance to the Force" prophecy quite cleanly. The Sith don't represent balance because they're too self-indulgent and cruel. But the Jedi don't represent balance ''either'', because they're too LawfulStupid. Proper balance, therefore, requires that both orders be dismantled, so that another one can rise - and indeed it does. It's less obvious there, but this is also the outcome of the KnightsOfTheOldRepublic series, and helps explain just what Kreia (and possibly Revan) intended.
*** You noticed that too? I figured out a theory recently on what 'balance' could possibly mean to the Force, which seems to be more like the life energy of the entire galaxy: if the Force itself is alive, how could a stagnant, hyper-controlling and totally unchanging Jedi Order possibly be ''good'' for it? In nature, stagnation usually equals death. The Sith philosophy seems like a good alternative in theory, but the way the Dark Side corrupts and perverts life makes it seem more like a cancer - growth for the sake of growth, power for the sake of power. Anakin's entire life was basically forcing the Force to act more dynamically, to encourage healthy development. - OracleSeven
** Many people find Vader's BigNo in ''RevengeOfTheSith'' to be pure {{Narm}}, but it's entirely in character. Despite his [[MoralEventHorizon horrific actions towards the movie's end]], Anakin is not quite Vader yet. Not as long as he's attached to Padme. I personally think there never was a Darth Plagueis, let alone one who manipulated the Force to extend or create life. I think Palpatine/Sidious was simply stringing Anakin along. He saw Anakin's strong attachment/devotion to her, and expanded his trilogy-long XanatosGambit to take her out. Padme was Anakin's moral hypothenus, if you will. It's only when Anakin loses his dearest supporter that he embraces the Dark Side and becomes Darth Vader, and [[ThatManIsDead declares Anakin Skywalker dead]]. That is, till he sees Luke in ''TheEmpireStrikesBack'' and ''ReturnOfTheJedi''. -
*** WordOfGod says you're wrong about Plagueis as well as the creation of life thing (Lucas has explictly stated Anakin was created by Plagueis). But Palpatine was stringing Anakin a long, since as he admits after Anakin turns to the Dark Side that he didn't know the mecanics of Plagueis' powers, just that Palgueis had these capabilities.
[[{{Tropers.Premonition45}} Premonition_45]]
* In interviews about ''TheEmpireStrikesBack'' screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan admitted that he hated writing for C-3PO because there was nothing for him to do in the story. Anthony Daniels(C-3PO) also complained that because he wasn't interacting with Artoo as much in the second film, he spent most of the time as a nag to the heroes and essentially being TheLoad. It would seem that Threepio had a completely useless role in TESB. However when you get to ''ReturnOfTheJedi'' you realize it was '''very''' important for Threepio to be there to witness the events of the past two movies because he ends up relating it all later to the Ewoks on Endor! His storytelling by the fireside to all the Ewok villagers about Luke and company's previous heroic adventures is what makes the Ewoks want to help the Rebels and what turns the tide in their favor in the Battle of Endor and the successful destruction of the Second Death Star! --{{Fastbak}}
* I always thought the Buzz Droid missiles in Revenge of the Sith were stupid and pointlessly inefficient, since a missile would do the job better. Then I realized, they're ''anti-capital ship weapons.'' They're probably designed to break through the hull of large ships and wander through the crawlspaces ripping apart vital electronics and subsystems, causing more damage to a ship than a single explosive torpedo could ever do. This still doesn't explain why the fighter fired them at starfighters instead of their intended target, but at least they have a logical purpose.
** I'd think that right after the capital ship, Jedi Starfighters are also VERY high-priority targets. They had a good shot at Obi-Wan's fighter, and didn't have one at the capital. Remember, there were only two Jedi at the battle, both absolutely critical to rescue Palpatine. Also important is that they aimed for Obi-Wan. He is Anakin's moral compass just as much as Padme. He is also the one person Anakin explicitly trusts without question. Without him, Anakin has zero ties to the Jedi Order, and his expulsion would be only a matter of time. The only one who would teach him after that? [[XanatosSpeedChess Palpatine.]]
*** Point of order- they fired at both Anakin and Obi-Wan- Anakin was able to evade the missiles, (well, spiral them into each other). (And several sources put other Jedi in the battle- we just didn't see them in the movie) But I do agree, Jedi fighters of any configuration would likely be at the top of any of the droids target lists, given their high value.
* I came to this conclusion last summer when I was big into my conspiracy theory Orwellian "People are Sheep" etc. phase: We're meant to hate Jar Jar. He represents the stupid, uninformed masses who come in and frak up democracy by voting without any real opinion of what's going on. He gets guilted into giving his support to Palpatine because it makes him feel good, just like how so many voters choose the candidate who "feels" like they've got everyone's best interests in mind. Jar Jar's single vote sets us on the path that will kill off the last, lingering vestiges of democracy in the Old Republic. And keep in mind what we've seen him doing in the past. He's a clumsy backwater hick who gets kicked exiled for causing massive chaos with his own clumsiness. Then he gets picked up by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and for the rest of the movie, we can barely make it 20 minutes without some new scene of Jar Jar clumsily making gigantic messes of parts shops or armies. And yet, for some reason, this buffoon is who we trust the entire fate of democracy to. Hmmm.... ~UnitedShoes37
* Mostly an Expanded Universe thing, but there didn't seem to be an appropriate SWEU column in either comics or lit, so I'm posting it here: The worst damage the Sith ever did to the Jedi (I suppose you could argue their near-total extinction at the hands of Sidious, but shut up, I'm trying to make a point here) was the war with Exar Kun. Prior to Exar Kun falling to the Dark Side, the Jedi were a massive, loose coalition of wandering monks and righters-of-wrongs, Jedi Masters would keep in contact with each other and refer apprentices to one another. Masters would train a couple new Knights, whatever suited their personal style, and, on the whole, the Jedi seemed very open-minded and trustworthy (possibly a side-effect of there not being a whole lot of stories set beore TOTJ). But in response to Exar Kun declaring himself the Lord of the Sith and declaring war on the Jedi and the Republic, the Jedi are forced to crystalize into something more akin to the Jedi we see in the Prequels. In fact, reading Tales of the Jedi after the release of the Prequels, keeping in mind the KOTOR games and comics and the other stuff in between, such as Jedi Vs. Sith and the Pre-Prequel stories of their prominent Jedi, you can almost see the Butterfly Effect rippling out from the Jedi getting together to fight Exar Kun, watching them slowly evolve into the impotent, detached order we see euthanized in the Prequels. 4,000 years of your worst enemy gradually evolving into something completely powerless to stop your successors from taking over the Galaxy. Not bad for a snot-nosed punk who just thought his Zoideberg-esque master needed to take off the training wheels a bit sooner. ~ UnitedShoes37
* One of this criticisms I've heard for "Attack of the Clones" was that the final battle between the clone troopers and droids was idiotic - they just lined up and shot at each other. Then I realized that this might actually make sense for two reasons:
** The clone troopers were trained, but who trained the trainers? The Republic apparently hasn't a major war in a thousand years. That's a lot of time for bad ideas to creep into their institutional experience, and good ones to drain out (particularly if most of their ground troop usage was for things like police actions/suppressing riots, where marching in ranks would be a good tactic).
** Perhaps the last time the Republic fought a major ground war, shield technology was greater than offensive weapon technology on the ground (like how it is with the Gungans and their giant shield in "Phantom Menace"). In such a situation, marching in close ranks might actually make sense, since you would maximize the number of troops covered by the shield.-Bass
* George Lucas was inspired by many things in creating Star Wars: the old Buck Rogers serials, Joseph Campbell books on mythology, Japanese Samurai movies like ''The Hidden Fortress'' on so on. It just occurred to me that Lucas may also have been inspired by Medieval tales like the King Arthur legend as well: The union of Anakin is Padme is that of a knight (a Jedi Knight) and a lady (Queen-turned-senator), and Palpatine is in effect an evil sorcerer of sorts. Obi-Wan perhaps played the Merlin role, as did Yoda. - {{Tropers.Jedd-the-Jedi}}
** Lucas has long acknowledged that Joseph Campbell's work on the Arthurian legend inspired a lot in Episode IV. One example you missed; Obi-wan presenting Luke with his father's Light Saber is analogous to Arthur claiming Excalibur (which had been his father's sword).
* I just had a stroke of possible FridgeBrilliance while reading through these Star Wars Fridge Brilliances. It's an ironic twist that love is what causes Anakin to fall to the DarkSide (and even more ironic that this leads to him killing his love), while love is what brings him back to the light at the end of the series. Consider this: plenty of times throughout the EU, Vader is shown to loathe himself, and the reason is obvious. ''He killed the only woman he ever loved.'' Hence the annoying BigNo at the end of Revenge of the Sith. This was his own personal hell that he had created for himself: to always remember that he ruined his own life by killing his love. Then, about 21 years later, he sees his son in a position that echoed Padme's hauntingly. Pleading for Anakin to save him while in agony from a Dark Side attack. Luke had tried to turn him back to the Light since they first met in ''Return of the Jedi'', but it isn't until his son is put in that situation that he does. I think that's what did it; not just that his son, the only thing of Padme he had left, was in mortal danger, but he was forcibly reminded of the time he failed her and he couldn't bear to allow it to happen again.
** Which game me some fridge light- not only was Luke pleading with his father, Vader just learned about his daughter, saw what Palpatine was doing, and didn't want to do more to her, (sorry about killing your mom and, ya know, blowing up your planet- my bad). Plus, fathers having the soft spot for daughters.
* This bothered me for the longest time. I used to think Vader was an incredibly dumb character, mostly because he is so inconsistent in his actions. One minute he is a loving, caring, albeit obsessive husband who wants to protect those he cares about, and next he's murdering children. His psychological transformation into Vader was sudden and not fully explained. I used to chalk this up to simply Lucas's crappy writing. But then I began researching psychological disorders, and I stumbled across Borderline Personality Disorder, a mental state in which people tend to have varying extremes of emotion, reason and the like. They can't seem to decide on a single core personality. And then it hit me at last: this is Anakin's problem! He's got BPD! A scientific explanation for his all-over-the-place behavior! This explains how he could be trying to fight Luke one second, and then suddenly switches sides and kills Palpatine. His mind is just wired that way. Similar to bipolar disorder, actually. If Lucas actually had BPD in mind when he created Vader (and Anakin), then he is more brilliant than I could have ever expected of him, and has created one of the most complex and psychologically fascinating characters of all time. -Unnamed Troper.
* Also, I'm not sure if this was already mentioned here, (and it's not exactly easy to look through the list) but I think it's arguably FridgeBrilliance that when it comes to lightsaber colours, Qui-Gon uses green, Obi-Wan uses blue, and Luke Skywalker uses blue in TheEmpireStrikesBack and green in ReturnOfTheJedi. [[spoiler:Also, Qui-Gon was more trusting of Anakin than Obi-Wan was, much like how Luke was more trusting of Vader in ReturnOfTheJedi than he was in TheEmpireStrikesBack.]] - [=neoYTPism=]
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* FridgeBrilliance: When it comes to lightsaber colours, Qui-Gon Jinn uses green, Obi-Wan Kenobi uses blue, and Luke Skywalker uses blue in TheEmpireStrikesBack and green in ReturnOfTheJedi; this is arguably FridgeBrilliance in that [[spoiler:much like Qui-Gon was more trusting of Anakin than Obi-Wan was, Luke was more trusting of Vader in ReturnOfTheJedi than he was in TheEmpireStrikesBack.]]
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