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** [[Fridge/StarWarsTheCloneWars The Clone Wars]]

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** * [[Fridge/StarWarsTheCloneWars The Clone Wars]]



** [[Fridge/StarWarsRebels Rebels]]
* Fridge/RogueOne

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** * [[Fridge/{{Solo}} Solo: A Star Wars Story ]]
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[[Fridge/StarWarsRebels Rebels]]
* Fridge/RogueOne[[Fridge/RogueOne Rogue One: A Star Wars Story]]


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* [[Fridge/TheMandalorian The Mandalorian]]


* A lot of people probably wondered why the Jedi Order in the prequel trilogy seemed like a bunch of ineffectual, pompous, self-righteous, hypocritical jerks as apposed to the stalwart defenders of the innocent and warriors against evil they were stated to be in the legends. The reason is because by the time of the clone wars, the Jedi Order was on the decline. Since they thought the Sith were gone, they believed that they only has to deal with the mundane problems of Muggles rather than fights between sci-fi [[MagicKnight magic knights]]. They stopped going out looking for evil because they believed that normal crime was something the republic could handle and they couldn't be arsed to get out of their temples to handle it. Had they gone out and been TheKnightErrant and fought all types of evil and crime, they might have gotten wise to the sith scheme to take over the universe sooner. Also, they got more and more entangled with the republic's affairs and came to rely on the republic as patrons too much worrying about public opinion and reprisals from government bodies that they actually just became and extension of the republic. They would even sell out one of their own on circumstantial evidence that have the republic be mad at them. Not to mention stuff like taking force sensitive children from their families because they, the Jedi, [[SarcasmMode obviously new better than the families of said children.]] In fact it was that whole "we're Jedi, we know better than all of you" attitude that really showcased their pride and arrogance. By the time of the prequels, we weren't looking at a BadassArmy of [[SpaceWizard space]] [[ThePaladin paladins]]. We were looking at church full of self-righteous ascetics that got soft in peaceful times [[TradeYourPassionForGlory and were content practicing the tenets of their religion rather than adhere to the spirit of that religion.]]

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* A lot of people probably wondered why the Jedi Order in the prequel trilogy seemed like a bunch of ineffectual, pompous, self-righteous, hypocritical jerks as apposed to the stalwart defenders of the innocent and warriors against evil they were stated to be in the legends. The reason is because by the time of the clone wars, the Jedi Order was on the decline. Since they thought the Sith were gone, they believed that they only has to deal with the mundane problems of Muggles rather than fights between sci-fi [[MagicKnight magic knights]]. They stopped going out looking for evil because they believed that normal crime was something the republic could handle and they couldn't be arsed to get out of their temples to handle it. Had they gone out and been TheKnightErrant and fought all types of evil and crime, they might have gotten wise to the sith scheme to take over the universe sooner. Also, they got more and more entangled with the republic's affairs and came to rely on the republic as patrons too much worrying about public opinion and reprisals from government bodies that they actually just became and extension of the republic. They would even sell out one of their own on circumstantial evidence that have the republic be mad at them. Not to mention stuff like taking force sensitive children from their families because they, the Jedi, [[SarcasmMode obviously new knew better than the families of said children.]] In fact it was that whole "we're Jedi, we know better than all of you" attitude that really showcased their pride and arrogance. By the time of the prequels, we weren't looking at a BadassArmy of [[SpaceWizard space]] [[ThePaladin paladins]]. We were looking at church full of self-righteous ascetics that got soft in peaceful times [[TradeYourPassionForGlory and were content practicing the tenets of their religion rather than adhere to the spirit of that religion.]]


* Stormtroopers have become the butt of quite a few jokes, both over their [[ImperialStormtrooperMarkmanshipAcademy poor aim]] and [[ArmorIsUseless apparently useless armor]]. However perhaps the Stormtroopers' armor isn't so useless after all:

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* Stormtroopers have become the butt of quite a few jokes, both over their [[ImperialStormtrooperMarkmanshipAcademy [[ImperialStormtrooperMarksmanshipAcademy poor aim]] and [[ArmorIsUseless apparently useless armor]]. However perhaps the Stormtroopers' armor isn't so useless after all:




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* The Empire seems to have it for Incom Corporation due [[NeverLiveItDown letting the X-Wing plans and prototypes fall into Rebel hands]], to the point that in Legends many Star Destroyers commanders outright refused to have [[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/I-7_Howlrunner an Incom fighter better than the standard TIE]] in their flight groups. Looking better at both Legends and Canon, however, it becomes clear that the X-Wing debacle was simply the last straw in a series of Incom screw-ups that generated outright paranoia among the Imperials:
** The Empire introduced the AT-AT early in its reign, and when it became clear the existing {{LAAT/c}} dropships were too small to deliver it in battle Incom was tasked with coming up with a dropship. Thus they develop the ''[[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Theta-class_barge Theta]], who can transport an AT-AT... But is so small the AT-AT has to have its legs folded and cannot immediately enter battle, defeating the whole point and leading to the Empire to adapt the ''Gozanti'' as an AT-AT barge.
** To remedy the above, Incom then developed the [[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Y-85_Titan_dropship Y-85 Titan dropship]], capable to deploy ''four'' [=AT-ATs=], plus four [=AT-STs=] for good measure, or an entire disassembled prefabricated base. While the limited agility deriving from such cargo (why in Canon general Veers used the ''Gozanti'' to deliver his troops to Hoth's surface, as he feared attacks from Rebel fighters) may be forgiven, the fact it's ''too large for an ISD hangar'' and can only carried by battlecruisers and above or dedicated troopships once again defeats the whole point of having an AT-AT barge.
** While the use of Incom products such as the Z-95 starfighters, T-16 airspeeders and T-47 airspeeders by rebels and pirates was not suspicious due the sheer ubiquity of said products before the Empire took over (and [[TechnicallyATransport the T-47 being a cargo hauler that had to be extensively modified to be used in combat]]) the Rebels' ability for coming up and mass producing with new and improved Z-95 variants was indeed suspicious. In Legends this is why the Empire nationalized the company in spite of their usual reluctance to take over major weapon manufacturers, to try and cut short the Rebel supply of "Heavy Headhunters".
** In Canon, the [[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/UT-60D_U-wing_starfighter/support_craft U-Wing troop transport]] had a limited production run, being still evaluated by the Empire for full adoption while [[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/BT-45D_U-wing its unarmed civilian variant]] was mass-produced... Then, somehow, a shipment of U-Wings "disappeared" and Rebels started using not just a militarized version of the civilian variant but the actual UT-60D. While Incom employees were definitely innocent this time (as it had been Bail Organa to disappear them), it was another black mark, and the reason for why the Empire nationalized the company.
** Finally, in retaliation for the nationalization, the X-Wing design team flat-out defected to the Rebellion, bringing with them the prototypes and the plans and deleting every other copy-thus cementing the Imperial military's distaste for Incom products.

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** The Expanded Universe (old and new) expanded on the speciesism. The short version is that speciesism happens among ''all'' species, it's just that humans are the most numerous and influential of them all. When one adds that the Clone Wars have recently put a human-led Republic against an enemy led by aliens whose public face, Grievous, was a noted war criminal, and the Empire, the successor of the Republic, has a higher-than-average percentage of speciesists. [[DivideAndConquer Just as Palpatine needed]].


** Assuming that the rate of this accelerated growth stayed roughly the same, then by the time of Ep. IV, the Clones would have been functionally around eighty years old. So it would make sense that the Empire started recruiting (or conscripting) ordinary, younger people for its army (and this also explains different Stormtrooper heights).

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** Assuming that the rate of this accelerated growth stayed roughly the same, then by the time of Ep. IV, the Clones would have been functionally around eighty sixty-four years old. So it would make sense that the Empire started recruiting (or conscripting) ordinary, younger people for its army (and this also explains different Stormtrooper heights).

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*** Hell, even antivenoms are made using venom from the animal in question. If you look at the Sith like a poison, infecting and spreading through the Force, then you can look at Darth Vader as the antivenom: made from the same source material (the Dark Side), but working AGAINST it as opposed to WITH it


* Imagine seeing the saga from R2-D2's perspective. He has been in the service of the Skywalkers pretty much from the beginning, what with serving Padme, and unlike C3PO his memory wasn't erased. He remembers Anakin and Padme, and how Anakin fell to the dark side. So imagine being in service of a kind master and mistress and then your master goes evil and your mistress dies in child birth. Artoo watches as Anakin and Padme's children are separated, but at the very least he gets to watch over Leia. That is until his new home on Aldreaan is blown up, along with the people he served dutifully, and knowing that the once sweet little boy he befriended on Tatooine was responsible for the suffering of his new Mistress, aka. Anakin's daughter. Then after all is said and done and Luke sees to it that Anakin's soul is redeemed, that he witnesses Leia's son Ben, aka. his beloved Master Anakin and Mistress Padme's grandson, follow in his grandfather's footsteps and fall to the dark side and make off with Luke's acolytes and brutally slaughter whoever was left, as Luke mourns turning to Artoo for as little comfort as he can find in the situation of the decimated New Jedi Order... No wonder the poor little droid has shut down by the time of ''The Force Awakens'' after a TraumaCongaLine like that.

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* Imagine seeing the saga from R2-D2's perspective. He has been in the service of the Skywalkers pretty much from the beginning, what with serving Padme, and unlike C3PO [=C3PO=] his memory wasn't erased. He remembers Anakin and Padme, and how Anakin fell to the dark side. So imagine being in service of a kind master and mistress and then your master goes evil and your mistress dies in child birth. Artoo watches as Anakin and Padme's children are separated, but at the very least he gets to watch over Leia. That is until his new home on Aldreaan is blown up, along with the people he served dutifully, and knowing that the once sweet little boy he befriended on Tatooine was responsible for the suffering of his new Mistress, aka. Anakin's daughter. Then after all is said and done and Luke sees to it that Anakin's soul is redeemed, that he witnesses Leia's son Ben, aka. his beloved Master Anakin and Mistress Padme's grandson, follow in his grandfather's footsteps and fall to the dark side and make off with Luke's acolytes and brutally slaughter whoever was left, as Luke mourns turning to Artoo for as little comfort as he can find in the situation of the decimated New Jedi Order... No wonder the poor little droid has shut down by the time of ''The Force Awakens'' after a TraumaCongaLine like that.

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* Imagine seeing the saga from R2-D2's perspective. He has been in the service of the Skywalkers pretty much from the beginning, what with serving Padme, and unlike C3PO his memory wasn't erased. He remembers Anakin and Padme, and how Anakin fell to the dark side. So imagine being in service of a kind master and mistress and then your master goes evil and your mistress dies in child birth. Artoo watches as Anakin and Padme's children are separated, but at the very least he gets to watch over Leia. That is until his new home on Aldreaan is blown up, along with the people he served dutifully, and knowing that the once sweet little boy he befriended on Tatooine was responsible for the suffering of his new Mistress, aka. Anakin's daughter. Then after all is said and done and Luke sees to it that Anakin's soul is redeemed, that he witnesses Leia's son Ben, aka. his beloved Master Anakin and Mistress Padme's grandson, follow in his grandfather's footsteps and fall to the dark side and make off with Luke's acolytes and brutally slaughter whoever was left, as Luke mourns turning to Artoo for as little comfort as he can find in the situation of the decimated New Jedi Order... No wonder the poor little droid has shut down by the time of ''The Force Awakens'' after a TraumaCongaLine like that.


* I realized something about the OT: Luke's first and last spoken lines in the OT have to do with choice. In ''ANH'', when we first meet Luke, his Aunt Beru asks him to remind him to tell his Uncle Owen to make sure a translator droid can speak Bocce, to which Luke says "Doesn't look like we have much of a choice, but I'll remind him". And towards the end of ''ROTJ'', he says "Father, I won't leave you" as his redeemed father Anakin dies.

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* I realized something about the OT: Luke's first and last spoken lines in the OT have to do with choice. In ''ANH'', when we first meet Luke, his Aunt Beru asks him to remind him to tell his Uncle Owen to make sure a translator droid can speak Bocce, to which Luke says "Doesn't look like we have much of a choice, but I'll remind him". And towards the end of ''ROTJ'', ''[=ROTJ=]'', he says "Father, I won't leave you" as his redeemed father Anakin dies.



** They cut off Zam Wesell's arm after she tried to ''kill a Senator''. Please watch the movie before you make judgments. Also, they were right about balance. There are two ways to use the Force; the light way and the dark way. The dark way uses the Force ''wrong'', the same way that brutally beating and abusing a horse to make it do more work is using it ''wrong''. In the novelization of RotJ, Luke thinks that the lightening is an aberration of the Force. The dark side ''isn't mean to be'', so the Jedi are perfectly in the right thinking that destroying this aberration that wasn't created by nature and was created by human beings wanting power and fueling their power on rage and hatred will cause balance. Why wouldn't it?

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** They cut off Zam Wesell's arm after she tried to ''kill a Senator''. Please watch the movie before you make judgments. Also, they were right about balance. There are two ways to use the Force; the light way and the dark way. The dark way uses the Force ''wrong'', the same way that brutally beating and abusing a horse to make it do more work is using it ''wrong''. In the novelization of RotJ, [=RotJ=], Luke thinks that the lightening is an aberration of the Force. The dark side ''isn't mean to be'', so the Jedi are perfectly in the right thinking that destroying this aberration that wasn't created by nature and was created by human beings wanting power and fueling their power on rage and hatred will cause balance. Why wouldn't it?


** It also explains the "bring balance to the Force" prophecy quite cleanly. The Sith don't represent balance because they're too self-indulgent and cruel. But the Jedi don't represent balance ''either'', because they're too LawfulStupid. Proper balance, therefore, requires that both orders be dismantled, so that another one can rise - and indeed it does. It's less obvious there, but this is also the outcome of the KnightsOfTheOldRepublic series, and helps explain just what Kreia (and possibly Revan) intended.

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** It also explains the "bring balance to the Force" prophecy quite cleanly. The Sith don't represent balance because they're too self-indulgent and cruel. But the Jedi don't represent balance ''either'', because they're too LawfulStupid. Proper balance, therefore, requires that both orders be dismantled, so that another one can rise - and indeed it does. It's less obvious there, but this is also the outcome of the KnightsOfTheOldRepublic ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' series, and helps explain just what Kreia (and possibly Revan) intended.



* I've been watching these movies, reading the books, and playing the video games my whole life, and I can't believe that in all that time I hadn't wondered about this much earlier. But it hit me when I was playing ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' and was introduced to the Wookiee named Zaalbar. If you're a Wookiee and you want to introduce yourself to a human, your ''name'' ought to sound the same in Basic as it does in Shyriiwook, right? So when somebody asks Chewbacca what his name is, and he says "Urf-rawr-growl," people are going to call him "Urf-rawr-growl," right? For people to call Chewbacca or Zaalbar "Chewbacca" and "Zaalbar", the Wookiee would need to be able to make the sounds that make up his name...right? That's how it works with other languages in the SW universe; despite speaking his own language, Greedo still distinctly says "Solo" and "Jabba" in ''Film/ANewHope''.

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* I've been watching these movies, reading the books, and playing the video games my whole life, and I can't believe that in all that time I hadn't wondered about this much earlier. But it hit me when I was playing ''KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' ''VideoGame/KnightsOfTheOldRepublic'' and was introduced to the Wookiee named Zaalbar. If you're a Wookiee and you want to introduce yourself to a human, your ''name'' ought to sound the same in Basic as it does in Shyriiwook, right? So when somebody asks Chewbacca what his name is, and he says "Urf-rawr-growl," people are going to call him "Urf-rawr-growl," right? For people to call Chewbacca or Zaalbar "Chewbacca" and "Zaalbar", the Wookiee would need to be able to make the sounds that make up his name...right? That's how it works with other languages in the SW universe; despite speaking his own language, Greedo still distinctly says "Solo" and "Jabba" in ''Film/ANewHope''.


** But there's more: the Clones had already been trained by the time the Republic received them, so it's reasonable to suggest that the Republic/Empire initially had no training program in place, and had to throw one together between Eps III and IV without knowing its true effectiveness.
** This shoddy planning was partly justified, however, since the Empire did not expect to be seriously threatened (at this point, the Separatists' armies had been deactivated, the Old Republic had been swept away, and the only major foes of the Empire were small bands of Rebels armed with clapped-out equipment), and so they could get away with having an ineffective army. All the Empire really needed to do to eliminate its enemy was put some new(ish) recruits into bulky armour and give them bigger and better weapons than the Rebels, even if those recruits were incapable of hitting the target or having any knowledge of military tactics.

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** But there's more: the Clones had already been trained by the time the Republic received them, so it's reasonable to suggest that the Republic/Empire initially had no training program in place, and had to throw one together between Eps Eps. III and IV without knowing its true effectiveness.
** This shoddy planning was partly justified, however, since the Empire did not expect to be seriously threatened (at this point, the Separatists' armies had been deactivated, the Old Republic had been swept away, and the only major foes of the Empire were small bands of Rebels armed with clapped-out equipment), and so they could get away with having an ineffective army. All the Empire really needed to do to eliminate its enemy was put some new(ish) recruits into bulky armour armor and give them bigger and better weapons than the Rebels, even if those recruits were incapable of hitting the target or having any knowledge of military tactics.



*** [[{{wanbli}} This troper]] thinks the original troper was referring to the Separatists as the phantom (i.e., not really there) menace, the ''real'' threat being Palpatine.

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*** [[{{wanbli}} This troper]] thinks the original troper Troper was referring to the Separatists as the phantom (i.e., not really there) menace, the ''real'' threat being Palpatine.



** Once in the Senate, take a populist, pro-government stance, favouring policies like the "taxation on trade routes" mentioned in the opening movie scrawl that are guaranteed to earn him the ire of powerful companies like the Trade Federation.

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** Once in the Senate, take a populist, pro-government stance, favouring favoring policies like the "taxation on trade routes" mentioned in the opening movie scrawl that are guaranteed to earn him the ire of powerful companies like the Trade Federation.



*** Yes, it can still be racist, if the parody is informed by negative stereotypes of one's own culture. That's called internalized racism. And even if he did singlehandedly think it up, all of the producers and film crew had to agree that it was a good idea and put it into the final idea of the film. And I'm one of those in the camp that thinks Binks' portrayal wasn't necessarily racist - just answering the above question.

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*** Yes, it can still be racist, if the parody is informed by negative stereotypes of one's own culture. That's called internalized racism. And even if he did singlehandedly single-handedly think it up, all of the producers and film crew had to agree that it was a good idea and put it into the final idea of the film. And I'm one of those in the camp that thinks Binks' portrayal wasn't necessarily racist - just answering the above question.



*** I saw that as a(n accidental, in retrospect) subversion of SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale: Even in the Prequel Era, when the Jedi are relatively numerous, there are more planets in the Republic than there are Jedi. Obviously not everyone in the universe will be aware of Jedi, and not everyone who has heard of them will believe that their exploits are more than rumour.
** I don't understand why people get so worked up about midichlorians. They are NOT mutually exclusive with the Force being spiritual/religious in nature. For example, let's say God created mankind - does this change the fact that humans have DNA and are made up of atoms? If you hate the fact it makes Jedi "predestined", well sorry to break it to you but they were that way anyway previously, they just said 'force sensitive' instead of having midichlorians. In fact, they did test for Jedi before the midichlorians were mentioned in canon, and one must assume they had SOME way of scientifically testing for it in children. In fact, it would be sort of ridiculous if the genetic makeup/DNA/atoms/whatever (not a scientist here) was NOT impacted by being force sensitive. I would find it strange they test for being a jedi without actually having a substance/particle/whatever to test for. (i.e. if they didn't use the midichlorian explanation)

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*** I saw that as a(n accidental, in retrospect) subversion of SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale: Even in the Prequel Era, when the Jedi are relatively numerous, there are more planets in the Republic than there are Jedi. Obviously not everyone in the universe will be aware of Jedi, and not everyone who has heard of them will believe that their exploits are more than rumour.
rumor.
** I don't understand why people get so worked up about midichlorians. They are NOT mutually exclusive with the Force being spiritual/religious in nature. For example, let's say God created mankind - does this change the fact that humans have DNA and are made up of atoms? If you hate the fact it makes Jedi "predestined", well sorry to break it to you but they were that way anyway previously, they just said 'force sensitive' instead of having midichlorians. In fact, they did test for Jedi before the midichlorians were mentioned in canon, and one must assume they had SOME way of scientifically testing for it in children. In fact, it would be sort of ridiculous if the genetic makeup/DNA/atoms/whatever (not a scientist here) was NOT impacted by being force sensitive. I would find it strange they test for being a jedi Jedi without actually having a substance/particle/whatever to test for. (i.e. if they didn't use the midichlorian explanation)



* A moment of FridgeBrilliance for myself was the pre-emptive realization that The Chosen One was always fated to destroy the Jedi Order. Even though the Jedi interpret the legend to fortell the end of the Sith, they are always careful to explicitly state: "The Chosen One will ''bring balance to the force''." At the time of Anakin's arrival, there are a tiny number of Sith and vast numbers of Jedi. Hence, to balance the force Anakin must kill most of the Jedi. By the original Star Wars trilogy we know of only two Sith (Palpatine and Vader) and two remaining Jedi (Obi-Wan and Yoda).

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* A moment of FridgeBrilliance for myself was the pre-emptive realization that The Chosen One was always fated to destroy the Jedi Order. Even though the Jedi interpret the legend to fortell foretell the end of the Sith, they are always careful to explicitly state: "The Chosen One will ''bring balance to the force''." At the time of Anakin's arrival, there are a tiny number of Sith and vast numbers of Jedi. Hence, to balance the force Anakin must kill most of the Jedi. By the original Star Wars trilogy we know of only two Sith (Palpatine and Vader) and two remaining Jedi (Obi-Wan and Yoda).



*** I had the same idea, thinking the "Balance" aspect was in fact Luke: A Jedi who could be fuelled by his Emotions, but at the same time keep from being controlled by them. His defeat of Vader at the climax of [=RotJ=] seemed to be the prime example of that.

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*** I had the same idea, thinking the "Balance" aspect was in fact Luke: A Jedi who could be fuelled fueled by his Emotions, but at the same time keep from being controlled by them. His defeat of Vader at the climax of [=RotJ=] seemed to be the prime example of that.


* A lot of people probably wondered why the Jedi order in the prequel trilogy seemed like a bunch of ineffectual, pompous, self-rightous, hypocritical jerks as apposed to the stalwart defenders of the innocent and warriors against evil they were stated to be in the legends. The reason is because by the time of the clone wars, the jedi order was on the decline. Since they thought the sith were gone, they believed that they only has to deal with the mundane problems of Muggles rather than fights between sci-fi [[MagicKnight magic knights]]. They stopped going out looking for evil because they believed that normal crime was something the republic could handle and they couldn't be arsed to get out of their temples to handle it. Had they gone out and been TheKnightErrant and fought all types of evil and crime, they might have gotten wise to the sith scheme to take over the universe sooner. Also, they got more and more entagled with the republic's affairs and came to rely on the republic as patrons too much worrying about public opinion and reprisals from government bodies that they actually just became and extension of the republic. They would even sell out one of their own on circumstancial evidence that have the republic be mad at them. Not to mention stuff like taking force sensitive children from their families because they, the jedi, [[SarcasmMode obviously new better than the families of said children.]] In fact it was that whole "we're jedi, we know better than all of you" attitude that really showcased their pride and arrogance. By the time of the prequels, we weren't looking at a BadassArmy of [[SpaceWizard space]] [[ThePaladin paladins]]. We were looking at church full of self-rightous ascetics that got soft in peaceful times [[TradeYourPassionForGlory and were content practicing the tenents of their religion rather than adhere to the spirit of that religion.]]

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* A lot of people probably wondered why the Jedi order Order in the prequel trilogy seemed like a bunch of ineffectual, pompous, self-rightous, self-righteous, hypocritical jerks as apposed to the stalwart defenders of the innocent and warriors against evil they were stated to be in the legends. The reason is because by the time of the clone wars, the jedi order Jedi Order was on the decline. Since they thought the sith Sith were gone, they believed that they only has to deal with the mundane problems of Muggles rather than fights between sci-fi [[MagicKnight magic knights]]. They stopped going out looking for evil because they believed that normal crime was something the republic could handle and they couldn't be arsed to get out of their temples to handle it. Had they gone out and been TheKnightErrant and fought all types of evil and crime, they might have gotten wise to the sith scheme to take over the universe sooner. Also, they got more and more entagled entangled with the republic's affairs and came to rely on the republic as patrons too much worrying about public opinion and reprisals from government bodies that they actually just became and extension of the republic. They would even sell out one of their own on circumstancial circumstantial evidence that have the republic be mad at them. Not to mention stuff like taking force sensitive children from their families because they, the jedi, Jedi, [[SarcasmMode obviously new better than the families of said children.]] In fact it was that whole "we're jedi, Jedi, we know better than all of you" attitude that really showcased their pride and arrogance. By the time of the prequels, we weren't looking at a BadassArmy of [[SpaceWizard space]] [[ThePaladin paladins]]. We were looking at church full of self-rightous self-righteous ascetics that got soft in peaceful times [[TradeYourPassionForGlory and were content practicing the tenents tenets of their religion rather than adhere to the spirit of that religion.]]



*** According to Wikia, the stormtrooper officer who told Vader of the political ramifications of Leia being imprisoned was highly respected by Vader. (NB: Stormtrooper officers are not always in armor and wear black uniforms.) The officer was very competent, dedicated, hardworking, and perceptive, traits which Vader (and previously Anakin) prized; he always made sure his stormtrooper squad was in tiptop shape; he was also the kinda guy to measure twice, cut only once. He also had a tendency to be very direct, even with his superiors, and he would not hesitate to point out potential problems with their plans. (Basically, he wasn't an ass kisser.) When he first started reporting to Vader and showed himself as being perceptive and direct, even with Vader (at times he would tell Vader about flaws in his plans), other officers who thought kissing ass was the way to go with Vader pronounced him a dead man walking; they were surprised when Vader later actually promoted the stormtrooper officer. As I'm sure you can tell in his personality from both the prequels and the original trilogy, Vader wasn't too much into having his ass kissed, but rather cared about getting the job done and getting it done right, so he liked having a highly competent, dedicated, and perceptive officer working for him, because it would minimize the risk of Vader making mistakes and, plus, that officer could get the job done. Also, although the stormtrooper officer was direct, he wasn't self-serving and arrogant like the admiral who talked back to Vader on the Death Star or Admiral Ozzel in ESB; Vader always prized his observations, because they often helped him tie up loose ends in his plans. It's a good thing for the Rebels that they didn't seem to have to encounter that stormtrooper officer or his squad again.

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*** According to Wikia, the stormtrooper Stormtrooper officer who told Vader of the political ramifications of Leia being imprisoned was highly respected by Vader. (NB: Stormtrooper officers are not always in armor and wear black uniforms.) The officer was very competent, dedicated, hardworking, and perceptive, traits which Vader (and previously Anakin) prized; he always made sure his stormtrooper Stormtrooper squad was in tiptop shape; he was also the kinda guy to measure twice, cut only once. He also had a tendency to be very direct, even with his superiors, and he would not hesitate to point out potential problems with their plans. (Basically, he wasn't an ass kisser.) When he first started reporting to Vader and showed himself as being perceptive and direct, even with Vader (at times he would tell Vader about flaws in his plans), other officers who thought kissing ass was the way to go with Vader pronounced him a dead man walking; they were surprised when Vader later actually promoted the stormtrooper Stormtrooper officer. As I'm sure you can tell in his personality from both the prequels and the original trilogy, Vader wasn't too much into having his ass kissed, but rather cared about getting the job done and getting it done right, so he liked having a highly competent, dedicated, and perceptive officer working for him, because it would minimize the risk of Vader making mistakes and, plus, that officer could get the job done. Also, although the stormtrooper Stormtrooper officer was direct, he wasn't self-serving and arrogant like the admiral who talked back to Vader on the Death Star or Admiral Ozzel in ESB; Vader always prized his observations, because they often helped him tie up loose ends in his plans. It's a good thing for the Rebels that they didn't seem to have to encounter that stormtrooper Stormtrooper officer or his squad again.



* Why are the Stormtroopers such terrible shots? You could put it down to Luke (and to some extent Leia) unconsciously using the Force in defence, but I think there's a more logical and simple explanation in the prequels:

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* Why are the Stormtroopers such terrible shots? You could put it down to Luke (and to some extent Leia) unconsciously using the Force in defence, defense, but I think there's a more logical and simple explanation in the prequels:



** Assuming that the rate of this accelerated growth stayed roughly the same, then by the time of Ep IV, the Clones would have been functionally around eighty years old. So it would make sense that the Empire started recruiting (or conscripting) ordinary, younger people for its army (and this also explains different Stormtrooper heights).
** But there's more: the Clones had already been trained by the time the Republic received them, so it's reasonable to suggest that the Republic/Empire initially had no training programme in place, and had to throw one together between Eps III and IV without knowing its true effectiveness.

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** Assuming that the rate of this accelerated growth stayed roughly the same, then by the time of Ep Ep. IV, the Clones would have been functionally around eighty years old. So it would make sense that the Empire started recruiting (or conscripting) ordinary, younger people for its army (and this also explains different Stormtrooper heights).
** But there's more: the Clones had already been trained by the time the Republic received them, so it's reasonable to suggest that the Republic/Empire initially had no training programme program in place, and had to throw one together between Eps III and IV without knowing its true effectiveness.



*** That.... makes a ridiculous amount of sense. Vader told the troops to "put on a show" to make the escape seem real, with added orders to not actually hit anyone. To add to this theory is the dialogue stated previously by Obi-Wan that "These blast points aren't random like sandpeople, only Stormtroopers are so precise." Adding further to this theory are the actions of Vader on the Death Star after his duel with Obi-Wan, he slowly makes his way towards the Falcon, but gets stopped by a blast door. ''Rogue One'' proved that Vader is scary fast when he needs to be, and the door could have been opened either by the use of the Force or the button that is sure to be there to open it (and Vader doesn't really need ''authorization'' to either override a lock), or he could, you know, use the ''lightsaber'' to cut through. This all points to the above suggestion being plausible.

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*** That.... makes a ridiculous amount of sense. Vader told the troops to "put on a show" to make the escape seem real, with added orders to not actually hit anyone. To add to this theory is the dialogue stated previously by Obi-Wan that "These blast points aren't random like sandpeople, Sand People, only Stormtroopers are so precise." Adding further to this theory are the actions of Vader on the Death Star after his duel with Obi-Wan, he slowly makes his way towards the Falcon, but gets stopped by a blast door. ''Rogue One'' proved that Vader is scary fast when he needs to be, and the door could have been opened either by the use of the Force or the button that is sure to be there to open it (and Vader doesn't really need ''authorization'' to either override a lock), or he could, you know, use the ''lightsaber'' to cut through. This all points to the above suggestion being plausible.



*** One more word on the pod not getting shot down: This troper always took it to be along the same lines as Vader wanting the prisoners alive: If they just blew it up, they would never know for sure what might or might not be concealed in it. By leaving the escape pods intact and then collecting them, they could see exactly what information the rebels had collected.

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*** One more word on the pod not getting shot down: This troper Troper always took it to be along the same lines as Vader wanting the prisoners alive: If they just blew it up, they would never know for sure what might or might not be concealed in it. By leaving the escape pods intact and then collecting them, they could see exactly what information the rebels had collected.



*** Actually Luke said he wanted to join "the academy", not necessarily become a stormtrooper. This troper finds it much more likely for Luke to wind up an Imperial pilot. Or at least start down that track before the name Skywalker becomes well known enough to get someone's attention upstairs...

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*** Actually Luke said he wanted to join "the academy", not necessarily become a stormtrooper. This troper Troper finds it much more likely for Luke to wind up an Imperial pilot. Or at least start down that track before the name Skywalker becomes well known enough to get someone's attention upstairs...



*** I agree with this fullheartedly. Midichlorians make things far, FAR worse. Because how do THEY interact with the force? And how do they share that interaction with the living beings? What of force spirits and places with Force "imprint", like the dark cave on Dagobah? Midichlorians not only answer nothing, they only make handwaving the Force (pun POSSIBLY intended :P) more difficult.

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*** I agree with this fullheartedly.full-heartedly. Midichlorians make things far, FAR worse. Because how do THEY interact with the force? And how do they share that interaction with the living beings? What of force spirits and places with Force "imprint", like the dark cave on Dagobah? Midichlorians not only answer nothing, they only make handwaving hand-waving the Force (pun POSSIBLY intended :P) more difficult.



** I was reading [[http://web.archive.org/web/20101020123407/https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustBugsMe/StarWarsArchive2010 an archived copy of a Just Bugs Me page from 2010]], when I suddenly realised why midichlorians work so well as an explanation. Being Force-Sensitive, or rather, having a high midichlorian count, is either a recessive or partially dominant trait. In addition, it was most likely self-destructive to early individuals until people began to come up with ways to use the Force instead of just letting it do whatever, which would likely take thousands of years (at best); before then, there'd be no real advantage to the trait, explaining why it's not standard.

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** I was reading [[http://web.archive.org/web/20101020123407/https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustBugsMe/StarWarsArchive2010 an archived copy of a Just Bugs Me page from 2010]], when I suddenly realised realized why midichlorians work so well as an explanation. Being Force-Sensitive, or rather, having a high midichlorian count, is either a recessive or partially dominant trait. In addition, it was most likely self-destructive to early individuals until people began to come up with ways to use the Force instead of just letting it do whatever, which would likely take thousands of years (at best); before then, there'd be no real advantage to the trait, explaining why it's not standard.



* I juuust realized that the R2 units on X-Wings are supposed to emulate the round observation dome on top of bombers.

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* I juuust just realized that the R2 units on X-Wings are supposed to emulate the round observation dome on top of bombers.



** I thought this, too, until I stumbled across something George Lucas says in one of the DVD commentaries. He says that the Force is like a living entity, and that the Sith are akin to a cancer or disease, bringing it out of whack. Anakin/Vader fulfils the prophecy by doing away with the Sith, which requires him to sacrifice himself in the process. If a person's health is out of balance (y'know, he's sick), you don't make him sicker to make things fair, right? If you want to see how he phrased it, [[http://blogs.starwars.com/moosepoodo/17 here's]] a link.

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** I thought this, too, until I stumbled across something George Lucas says in one of the DVD commentaries. He says that the Force is like a living entity, and that the Sith are akin to a cancer or disease, bringing it out of whack. Anakin/Vader fulfils fulfills the prophecy by doing away with the Sith, which requires him to sacrifice himself in the process. If a person's health is out of balance (y'know, he's sick), you don't make him sicker to make things fair, right? If you want to see how he phrased it, [[http://blogs.starwars.com/moosepoodo/17 here's]] a link.



* For the absolute ''longest'' time, I was of the opinion that Anakin only wanted to become a fully-fledged Jedi because he just wanted power. Then I realised that in Episode II, he has recurring dreams about his mother suffering - ''he wanted to save his mother'', and he couldn't get out of his Jedi commitments when still a Padawan. When he goes to save her and fails completely, it starts to break him. In Episode III, he still wants to be a master so he can have more time with Padme and his future children, but the council still don't let him because he's unstable.

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* For the absolute ''longest'' time, I was of the opinion that Anakin only wanted to become a fully-fledged Jedi because he just wanted power. Then I realised realized that in Episode II, he has recurring dreams about his mother suffering - ''he wanted to save his mother'', and he couldn't get out of his Jedi commitments when still a Padawan. When he goes to save her and fails completely, it starts to break him. In Episode III, he still wants to be a master so he can have more time with Padme and his future children, but the council still don't let him because he's unstable.



*** Overlooking some of the dialogue/plot issues the prequels had in some places, I've always thought Padme was a great foil to Anakin. He was a man who couldn't let go of his personal attachments for the sake of the higher cause; she was a woman who had sacrificed so much of herself for the greater good that she hardly had anything personal to speak of. She was always strong in her moral convictions, but Anakin's passionate endeavour hit her right where she was weakest.

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*** Overlooking some of the dialogue/plot issues the prequels had in some places, I've always thought Padme was a great foil to Anakin. He was a man who couldn't let go of his personal attachments for the sake of the higher cause; she was a woman who had sacrificed so much of herself for the greater good that she hardly had anything personal to speak of. She was always strong in her moral convictions, but Anakin's passionate endeavour endeavor hit her right where she was weakest.



** The Yoda theory is confirmed in the Thrawn Trilogy; when Luke is reflecting on the passing of Obi-Wan's ghost, he claims he is the last of of the Jedi... then he hears Obi-Wan's voice "Not the last of the old jedi, but the first of the new"

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** The Yoda theory is confirmed in the Thrawn Trilogy; when Luke is reflecting on the passing of Obi-Wan's ghost, he claims he is the last of of the Jedi... then he hears Obi-Wan's voice "Not the last of the old jedi, Jedi, but the first of the new"



** One thing that occured to this troper after watching all the films in succession several times, is what is Vader's exact motivation for destroying Palpatine? Is it to save his son, or to preserve the only thing left of Padme?
* This bothered me for the longest time. I used to think Vader was an incredibly dumb character, mostly because he is so inconsistent in his actions. One minute he is a loving, caring, albeit obsessive husband who wants to protect those he cares about, and next he's murdering children. His psychological transformation into Vader was sudden and not fully explained. I used to chalk this up to simply Lucas's crappy writing. But then I began researching psychological disorders, and I stumbled across Borderline Personality Disorder, a mental state in which people tend to have varying extremes of emotion, reason and the like. They can't seem to decide on a single core personality. And then it hit me at last: this is Anakin's problem! He's got BPD! A scientific explanation for his all-over-the-place behaviour! This explains how he could be trying to fight Luke one second, and then suddenly switches sides and kills Palpatine. His mind is just wired that way. Similar to bipolar disorder, actually. If Lucas actually had BPD in mind when he created Vader (and Anakin), then he is more brilliant than I could have ever expected of him, and has created one of the most complex and psychologically fascinating characters of all time. -Unnamed Troper.

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** One thing that occured occurred to this troper Troper after watching all the films in succession several times, is what is Vader's exact motivation for destroying Palpatine? Is it to save his son, or to preserve the only thing left of Padme?
* This bothered me for the longest time. I used to think Vader was an incredibly dumb character, mostly because he is so inconsistent in his actions. One minute he is a loving, caring, albeit obsessive husband who wants to protect those he cares about, and next he's murdering children. His psychological transformation into Vader was sudden and not fully explained. I used to chalk this up to simply Lucas's crappy writing. But then I began researching psychological disorders, and I stumbled across Borderline Personality Disorder, a mental state in which people tend to have varying extremes of emotion, reason and the like. They can't seem to decide on a single core personality. And then it hit me at last: this is Anakin's problem! He's got BPD! A scientific explanation for his all-over-the-place behaviour! behavior! This explains how he could be trying to fight Luke one second, and then suddenly switches sides and kills Palpatine. His mind is just wired that way. Similar to bipolar disorder, actually. If Lucas actually had BPD in mind when he created Vader (and Anakin), then he is more brilliant than I could have ever expected of him, and has created one of the most complex and psychologically fascinating characters of all time. -Unnamed Troper.



** The power was what Anakin could have been and was supposed to become, but never did. He was going to be the super-end all force user...which was why Palpatine was after him to be his apprentice, and why he put Order 66 in place the moment he had Anakin on his side. He knew that with Anakin as his apprentice, rounding up the Jedi would be no problem...which we see in that he destroyed the Jedi Temple on his own (which a squad of troopers - well known Jedi bait). Unfortunately, what Palps did not see coming was that Obi-Wan was going to defeat Anakin and reduce him to a (literal)half-man shell of what he once was...and what he was going to be. Obi-Wan was able to destroy Anakin's potential right there on Mustafar. If we accept that the number of midichlorians determines force power...if you lose half your body, you lose half your midichlorians. Every time a Jedi or Sith loses a limb it reduces their power level. Ironically, the Darth Vader of the original trilogy is a crippled and defeated old man in a walking iron lung who is not nearly as powerful as Palps thought he was going to be - but since most of all the other force-users are dead...he is a bad-ass. Vader's reduced capacity might also be why the Rebels were able to survive to cause so much trouble. Perhaps in Palps' original visions, his apprentice, fully-powered Vader, would have been able to sniff them out and destroy them utterly. It is also the reason why Palps was so eager for Luke to kill Vader and become the new Sith apprentice...Luke (and Leia) have that same potential to become just as powerful as Anakin would have. - BadSintax
** By stopping Windu from killing Palpatine, he is partially responsible for the creation of the empire. Also, his killing of the children in the jedi temple didn't just demonstrate his descent into evil, but also cut off a major source of potential jedi, though granted, MAYBE it could have been done by the clones. Also, Vader's "force-choking" of imperial staff ultimately instils a sense of fear in them which probably plays a significant role in their actions. Also, the Vader-Luke confrontations probably had significant effects on the psychology of each, which is probably important what with Luke being the "last of the jedi." (Save for Yoda until his death.) [=neoYTPism=]

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** The power was what Anakin could have been and was supposed to become, but never did. He was going to be the super-end all force user...which was why Palpatine was after him to be his apprentice, and why he put Order 66 in place the moment he had Anakin on his side. He knew that with Anakin as his apprentice, rounding up the Jedi would be no problem...which we see in that he destroyed the Jedi Temple on his own (which a squad of troopers - well known Jedi bait). Unfortunately, what Palps Palpatine did not see coming was that Obi-Wan was going to defeat Anakin and reduce him to a (literal)half-man shell of what he once was...and what he was going to be. Obi-Wan was able to destroy Anakin's potential right there on Mustafar. If we accept that the number of midichlorians determines force power...if you lose half your body, you lose half your midichlorians. Every time a Jedi or Sith loses a limb it reduces their power level. Ironically, the Darth Vader of the original trilogy is a crippled and defeated old man in a walking iron lung who is not nearly as powerful as Palps Palpatine thought he was going to be - but since most of all the other force-users are dead...he is a bad-ass. Vader's reduced capacity might also be why the Rebels were able to survive to cause so much trouble. Perhaps in Palps' Palpatine's original visions, his apprentice, fully-powered Vader, would have been able to sniff them out and destroy them utterly. It is also the reason why Palps Palpatine was so eager for Luke to kill Vader and become the new Sith apprentice...Luke (and Leia) have that same potential to become just as powerful as Anakin would have. - BadSintax
** By stopping Windu from killing Palpatine, he is partially responsible for the creation of the empire. Also, his killing of the children in the jedi Jedi temple didn't just demonstrate his descent into evil, but also cut off a major source of potential jedi, Jedi, though granted, MAYBE it could have been done by the clones. Also, Vader's "force-choking" of imperial staff ultimately instils instills a sense of fear in them which probably plays a significant role in their actions. Also, the Vader-Luke confrontations probably had significant effects on the psychology of each, which is probably important what with Luke being the "last of the jedi.Jedi." (Save for Yoda until his death.) [=neoYTPism=]



* This is more of an EU Brilliance, but it has it's based on the movies. First, one has to wonder how exactly Palpatine became a racist, bloodthirsty despot growing up on pacifistic Naboo. I don't really have an answer to the bloodthirsty bit, but the xenophobia actually makes perfect sense. The only aliens that Palps would have known growing up on Naboo would have been Gungans, with whom the Naboo had had a sour relations with for centuries. No wonder he hated aliens, they were all Gungans to him!

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* This is more of an EU Brilliance, but it has it's based on the movies. First, one has to wonder how exactly Palpatine became a racist, bloodthirsty despot growing up on pacifistic Naboo. I don't really have an answer to the bloodthirsty bit, but the xenophobia actually makes perfect sense. The only aliens that Palps Palpatine would have known growing up on Naboo would have been Gungans, with whom the Naboo had had a sour relations with for centuries. No wonder he hated aliens, they were all Gungans to him!



** Exactly. Palpatine isn't a racist who holds nonhuman life in contempt; he holds ''everybody's'' life in contempt, human or otherwise. His favouritism towards humans stems solely from A) the fact he is one, so is better-equipped to appeal to human racists' preferences in a leader than, say, Twilek racists' preferences; and B) the fact that humans happened to be in the best position to become his hate-motivated minions.

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** Exactly. Palpatine isn't a racist who holds nonhuman life in contempt; he holds ''everybody's'' life in contempt, human or otherwise. His favouritism favoritism towards humans stems solely from A) the fact he is one, so is better-equipped to appeal to human racists' preferences in a leader than, say, Twilek Twi'lek racists' preferences; and B) the fact that humans happened to be in the best position to become his hate-motivated minions.



* The human specism, and racism, particularly on the part of the Empire. For one, it was a clever way to explain why we see so few non-humans on the Death Star, or as extras. Rather than say that they just didn't have the budget to create hundreds of aliens for the purpose of just background characters, the explanation is entirely in universe.

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* The human specism, speciesism, and racism, particularly on the part of the Empire. For one, it was a clever way to explain why we see so few non-humans on the Death Star, or as extras. Rather than say that they just didn't have the budget to create hundreds of aliens for the purpose of just background characters, the explanation is entirely in universe.



** Except "Spice" is the name of a crystalline narcotic produced from inorganic spiders to catch beings made of energy, not flavourful minerals.

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** Except "Spice" is the name of a crystalline narcotic produced from inorganic spiders to catch beings made of energy, not flavourful flavorful minerals.



* Upon rewatching all six movies, it becomes clear that Anakin, by and large, was correct about the Jedi: they WERE keeping him back (Ep II showed that Yoda was aware of Anakin's brush with the dark side, if not the slaughter of the Tusken in specific); the Jedi HAD compromised their stated values (attempting to abuse Palpatine's favour of Anakin, and later Windu's decision for summary execution instead of due process); and the order's stodgy reliance on tradition and denial of emotion is part of what allowed the Sith to seize power virtually unopposed (for all Yoda's warnings of fear, he'd apparently given Anakin plenty of reason to hide both the Tusken slaughter and his marriage to Padme, out of fear of what the order would do). He was only wrong about Obi -Wan's personal loyalty. Moreover, not only is Luke successful without Jedi dogma indoctrinated into him, he succeeds despite the manipulations of his mentors: Obi-Wan's attempt to protect Luke by hiding Vader's true nature, while well-intentioned, was no longer necessary after the first movie, and outright endangered Luke in the second. Likewise, when Yoda tells Luke that the ideals of the rebellion matter more than the lives of Luke's friends, Luke ultimately rejects this, leading directly to gaining the knowledge he needed to defeat the Sith. Finally, both Yoda and Obi-Wan attempt to convince Luke that Vader's evil is monolithic, remembering from personal experience how Anakin's fall led him to murder children and his own wife. When Luke tried anyway, not out of a plan for the rebellion or an abstract philosophy, but out of genuine concern for his father, Luke not only redeemed Anakin, he also proved the falsehood of the Jedi Order's self-denial practices.
** [[{{neoYTPism}} This troper]] noticed the same thing, or at least the part about Luke proving Yoda and Obi-Wan wrong. Even ''without'' the prequel trilogy, it's clear that Luke redeemed Vader precisely BECAUSE he learned the truth and acted accordingly, which reflects poorly on the decisions of Obi-Wan and Yoda to lie to him. So, the original trilogy already made clear that the Jedi weren't quite as wise as they pretended to be and/or thought they were. The council's rigid traditionalism in the prequel trilogy only drives the point home further.

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* Upon rewatching all six movies, it becomes clear that Anakin, by and large, was correct about the Jedi: they WERE keeping him back (Ep II showed that Yoda was aware of Anakin's brush with the dark side, if not the slaughter of the Tusken in specific); the Jedi HAD compromised their stated values (attempting to abuse Palpatine's favour favor of Anakin, and later Windu's decision for summary execution instead of due process); and the order's stodgy reliance on tradition and denial of emotion is part of what allowed the Sith to seize power virtually unopposed (for all Yoda's warnings of fear, he'd apparently given Anakin plenty of reason to hide both the Tusken slaughter and his marriage to Padme, out of fear of what the order would do). He was only wrong about Obi -Wan's personal loyalty. Moreover, not only is Luke successful without Jedi dogma indoctrinated into him, he succeeds despite the manipulations of his mentors: Obi-Wan's attempt to protect Luke by hiding Vader's true nature, while well-intentioned, was no longer necessary after the first movie, and outright endangered Luke in the second. Likewise, when Yoda tells Luke that the ideals of the rebellion matter more than the lives of Luke's friends, Luke ultimately rejects this, leading directly to gaining the knowledge he needed to defeat the Sith. Finally, both Yoda and Obi-Wan attempt to convince Luke that Vader's evil is monolithic, remembering from personal experience how Anakin's fall led him to murder children and his own wife. When Luke tried anyway, not out of a plan for the rebellion or an abstract philosophy, but out of genuine concern for his father, Luke not only redeemed Anakin, he also proved the falsehood of the Jedi Order's self-denial practices.
** [[{{neoYTPism}} This troper]] Troper]] noticed the same thing, or at least the part about Luke proving Yoda and Obi-Wan wrong. Even ''without'' the prequel trilogy, it's clear that Luke redeemed Vader precisely BECAUSE he learned the truth and acted accordingly, which reflects poorly on the decisions of Obi-Wan and Yoda to lie to him. So, the original trilogy already made clear that the Jedi weren't quite as wise as they pretended to be and/or thought they were. The council's rigid traditionalism in the prequel trilogy only drives the point home further.



** That was what this troper thought too, but [[TheCuckoolanderWasRight everyone around her kept calling her names for years]]! I always thought that the incredulous look that Obi-Wan gave Han was the "Really, you found a shorter way to fly that route? Seriously, what are you insane?!" type.

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** That was what this troper Troper thought too, but [[TheCuckoolanderWasRight everyone around her kept calling her names for years]]! I always thought that the incredulous look that Obi-Wan gave Han was the "Really, you found a shorter way to fly that route? Seriously, what are you insane?!" type.



** Expending on the above comment, and completely discarding the canon EU explanation, I theorize that a parsec here is slang for a time measurement, much the same way that on good old earth, time measurements are used as distance measurements. The expression "Person X lives 3 hours away", or the derivation of the distance unit Lightyear from the time unit Year both are based on calculating the described distance from the specified time measurement and an assumed universally uniform speed. This makes sense in a world with varying distance measurement units (miles, kilometres, etc.), but a common time measurement system (hour = hour). Now, in a Universe inhabited by spacefaring civilisations with a shared history that goes back countless millennia, I think it's not too much of a stretch to think that, unlike on Earth, (interstellar) distance measurement units would be universal (established as 'distance between historically important places A and B' or something similar), whereas time units would vary greatly, based on the rotation speed of the individual person's home planet, resulting in slang measurements such as the one in the movie. Much like 'an hour' is the same distance no matter whether you'd measure it in kilometres or miles, '12 parsecs' might denote the same time no matter what's an 'hour' on your homeworld, assuming normal hyperdrive speed. And Obi-Wan's expression is just a snob's frown upon slang.

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** Expending on the above comment, and completely discarding the canon EU explanation, I theorize that a parsec here is slang for a time measurement, much the same way that on good old earth, time measurements are used as distance measurements. The expression "Person X lives 3 hours away", or the derivation of the distance unit Lightyear from the time unit Year both are based on calculating the described distance from the specified time measurement and an assumed universally uniform speed. This makes sense in a world with varying distance measurement units (miles, kilometres, kilometers, etc.), but a common time measurement system (hour = hour). Now, in a Universe inhabited by spacefaring civilisations civilizations with a shared history that goes back countless millennia, I think it's not too much of a stretch to think that, unlike on Earth, (interstellar) distance measurement units would be universal (established as 'distance between historically important places A and B' or something similar), whereas time units would vary greatly, based on the rotation speed of the individual person's home planet, resulting in slang measurements such as the one in the movie. Much like 'an hour' is the same distance no matter whether you'd measure it in kilometres kilometers or miles, '12 parsecs' might denote the same time no matter what's an 'hour' on your homeworld, assuming normal hyperdrive speed. And Obi-Wan's expression is just a snob's frown upon slang.



** He needed ''Solo'' alive. He had no particular need to keep the Wookie, Princess, and Droid intact, and may have simply been annoyed that his options were being limited.
* I just realized: the holographic stuff used in throughout the Galaxy is always blue, right? What color are Force Ghosts? Blue. The latter cannot possibly be imitating the former and considering the technology level that is available, it would be easy to set up different colors or even full-color holograms. This leads me to suspect that holograms are blue because someone felt like imitating rumoured ghost sightings.

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** He needed ''Solo'' alive. He had no particular need to keep the Wookie, Wookiee, Princess, and Droid intact, and may have simply been annoyed that his options were being limited.
* I just realized: the holographic stuff used in throughout the Galaxy is always blue, right? What color are Force Ghosts? Blue. The latter cannot possibly be imitating the former and considering the technology level that is available, it would be easy to set up different colors or even full-color holograms. This leads me to suspect that holograms are blue because someone felt like imitating rumoured rumored ghost sightings.



** When did the Jedi act like bureacrats? I distinctly remember watching Obi-Wan acting at various times like a police officer or a detective. Didn't see anything that looked like paperwork. And usually, yes, those who lived through a time period know exactly what they're talking about. That's how everyone else gets to know what happened. And seriously, does it take any tinting at all to think being part of an overstretched galactic police force is somehow better than being hunted by a galactic empire that burns down homesteads when interrogations aren't effect and blows up planets?

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** When did the Jedi act like bureacrats? bureaucrats? I distinctly remember watching Obi-Wan acting at various times like a police officer or a detective. Didn't see anything that looked like paperwork. And usually, yes, those who lived through a time period know exactly what they're talking about. That's how everyone else gets to know what happened. And seriously, does it take any tinting at all to think being part of an overstretched galactic police force is somehow better than being hunted by a galactic empire that burns down homesteads when interrogations aren't effect and blows up planets?



* Obi-Wan and Vader are supposed to be Luke's evil and good Fathers. We know that. However, this logically makes Yoda his crochety, cranky, selfish, but still wise grandpa. And Palpatine suddenly becomes an abusive patriarch who likes pitting his descendants against each other.

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* Obi-Wan and Vader are supposed to be Luke's evil and good Fathers. We know that. However, this logically makes Yoda his crochety, crotchety, cranky, selfish, but still wise grandpa. And Palpatine suddenly becomes an abusive patriarch who likes pitting his descendants against each other.



** There's actually a fairly popular fan theory that Qui-Gonn was the only Jedi available to take on a padawan that would have been able to stop Anakin's fall--Qui-Gonn is a 'Grey Jedi', which is a Jedi who goes against tradition and believes that both the restraint of the light and the emotion of the dark are needed to fight in balance, and was a better warrior because of it, but also a pariah. This is referenced repeatedly throughout TPM. If Anakin had been mentored by someone who believed this way, like Qui-Gonn or Mace Windu, he would never have repressed and internalised his emotions, and thus would never have been anywhere near as susceptible to the Dark Side. And it's entirely possible that someone like Qui-Gonn who put little faith in blind tradition would be entirely able to not only keep Anakin and Padme's relationship a secret but empathise with it, and his knowledge could have helped save Padme down the line. In short; as mentioned above, the entirety of Star Wars is riddled with 'vergences' or 'shatterpoints', where a single aspect of reality is all that keeps galactic history from being radically different; the fact that Obi-Wan, someone who was very much a staunch traditionalist and who believed the Jedi dogma until that faith was shattered in Episode III was Anakin's mentor instead of Qui-Gonn was one such vergence and directly or indirectly led to the events of the next five movies.

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** There's actually a fairly popular fan theory that Qui-Gonn was the only Jedi available to take on a padawan that would have been able to stop Anakin's fall--Qui-Gonn is a 'Grey Jedi', which is a Jedi who goes against tradition and believes that both the restraint of the light and the emotion of the dark are needed to fight in balance, and was a better warrior because of it, but also a pariah. This is referenced repeatedly throughout TPM. If Anakin had been mentored by someone who believed this way, like Qui-Gonn or Mace Windu, he would never have repressed and internalised internalized his emotions, and thus would never have been anywhere near as susceptible to the Dark Side. And it's entirely possible that someone like Qui-Gonn who put little faith in blind tradition would be entirely able to not only keep Anakin and Padme's relationship a secret but empathise empathize with it, and his knowledge could have helped save Padme down the line. In short; as mentioned above, the entirety of Star Wars is riddled with 'vergences' or 'shatterpoints', where a single aspect of reality is all that keeps galactic history from being radically different; the fact that Obi-Wan, someone who was very much a staunch traditionalist and who believed the Jedi dogma until that faith was shattered in Episode III was Anakin's mentor instead of Qui-Gonn was one such vergence and directly or indirectly led to the events of the next five movies.



* All Jedi are world-class [[DeadpanSnarker Deadpan Snarkers]]. The reason for this is quite obvious: being trained to distance themselves from emotion, their main reaction towards pretty much anything can only be unfazed cynicism, their humour being an expression of basically not being able to react with happiness, fear or anger. At the same time, the Sith seem to be taking everything way too seriously.

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* All Jedi are world-class [[DeadpanSnarker Deadpan Snarkers]]. The reason for this is quite obvious: being trained to distance themselves from emotion, their main reaction towards pretty much anything can only be unfazed cynicism, their humour humor being an expression of basically not being able to react with happiness, fear or anger. At the same time, the Sith seem to be taking everything way too seriously.



* George Lucas has made no secret that he based many of the battles on old war films, with many of the spacecraft based to varying degres on RealLife aircraft. With that in mind, what could he have had in mind with the folding S-Foils on fighters like the X-Wing or the ARC-170? If you find footage of dive bombers in WWII (such as the North American A-36 Apache, or the Douglas [=SBD=] Dauntless, you'll realize they're likely intended to be dive brakes, which would be extended just as the bomber [[LetsGetDangerous rolled into a dive]] in order to keep the bomber from diving fast enough to rip its own wings off.

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* George Lucas has made no secret that he based many of the battles on old war films, with many of the spacecraft based to varying degres degrees on RealLife aircraft. With that in mind, what could he have had in mind with the folding S-Foils on fighters like the X-Wing or the ARC-170? If you find footage of dive bombers in WWII (such as the North American A-36 Apache, or the Douglas [=SBD=] Dauntless, you'll realize they're likely intended to be dive brakes, which would be extended just as the bomber [[LetsGetDangerous rolled into a dive]] in order to keep the bomber from diving fast enough to rip its own wings off.



** The body armor worn by modern soldiers is ''not'' designed to ''stop'' incoming fire. It's designed to reduce its velocity, and therefore energy on impact, so that injuries that would ordinarily be fatal would instead become treatable wounds. It stands to reason that Stormtrooper armore is designed under the same principle; making armor that would actually ''stop'' blaster fire would make it unwieldy to wear. Instead, it's better to design it to minimize how much energy of a blast gets through rather than stop it entirely.

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** The body armor worn by modern soldiers is ''not'' designed to ''stop'' incoming fire. It's designed to reduce its velocity, and therefore energy on impact, so that injuries that would ordinarily be fatal would instead become treatable wounds. It stands to reason that Stormtrooper armore armor is designed under the same principle; making armor that would actually ''stop'' blaster fire would make it unwieldy to wear. Instead, it's better to design it to minimize how much energy of a blast gets through rather than stop it entirely.



* Mostly an Expanded Universe thing, but there didn't seem to be an appropriate SWEU column in either comics or lit, so I'm posting it here: The worst damage the Sith ever did to the Jedi (I suppose you could argue their near-total extinction at the hands of Sidious, but shut up, I'm trying to make a point here) was the war with Exar Kun. Prior to Exar Kun falling to the Dark Side, the Jedi were a massive, loose coalition of wandering monks and righters-of-wrongs, Jedi Masters would keep in contact with each other and refer apprentices to one another. Masters would train a couple new Knights, whatever suited their personal style, and, on the whole, the Jedi seemed very open-minded and trustworthy (possibly a side-effect of there not being a whole lot of stories set before TOTJ). But in response to Exar Kun declaring himself the Lord of the Sith and declaring war on the Jedi and the Republic, the Jedi are forced to crystallize into something more akin to the Jedi we see in the Prequels. In fact, reading Tales of the Jedi after the release of the Prequels, thinking of the KOTOR games and comics and the other stuff in between, such as Jedi Vs. Sith and the Pre-Prequel stories of their prominent Jedi, you can almost see the Butterfly Effect rippling out from the Jedi getting together to fight Exar Kun, watching them slowly evolve into the impotent, detached order we see euthanised in the Prequels. 4,000 years of your worst enemy gradually evolving into something completely powerless to stop your successors from taking over the Galaxy. Not bad for a snot-nosed punk who just thought his Zoideberg-esque master needed to take off the training wheels a bit sooner. ~ UnitedShoes37

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* Mostly an Expanded Universe thing, but there didn't seem to be an appropriate SWEU column in either comics or lit, so I'm posting it here: The worst damage the Sith ever did to the Jedi (I suppose you could argue their near-total extinction at the hands of Sidious, but shut up, I'm trying to make a point here) was the war with Exar Kun. Prior to Exar Kun falling to the Dark Side, the Jedi were a massive, loose coalition of wandering monks and righters-of-wrongs, Jedi Masters would keep in contact with each other and refer apprentices to one another. Masters would train a couple new Knights, whatever suited their personal style, and, on the whole, the Jedi seemed very open-minded and trustworthy (possibly a side-effect of there not being a whole lot of stories set before TOTJ). But in response to Exar Kun declaring himself the Lord of the Sith and declaring war on the Jedi and the Republic, the Jedi are forced to crystallize into something more akin to the Jedi we see in the Prequels. In fact, reading Tales of the Jedi after the release of the Prequels, thinking of the KOTOR games and comics and the other stuff in between, such as Jedi Vs. Sith and the Pre-Prequel stories of their prominent Jedi, you can almost see the Butterfly Effect rippling out from the Jedi getting together to fight Exar Kun, watching them slowly evolve into the impotent, detached order we see euthanised euthanized in the Prequels. 4,000 years of your worst enemy gradually evolving into something completely powerless to stop your successors from taking over the Galaxy. Not bad for a snot-nosed punk who just thought his Zoideberg-esque master needed to take off the training wheels a bit sooner. ~ UnitedShoes37



** The Revenge of the Sith novelization elucidates this. During his fight with Sidious, Yoda realizes that while the Sith have spent a thousand years since the last war growing, changing, and evolving, the Jedi have spent those same thousand years training to refight the ''last'' war. Yoda's Jedi Order just doesn't know how to combat this new Sith threat, and the fight was over before the Jedi even realized they were in one.

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** The Revenge of the Sith novelization elucidates this. During his fight with Sidious, Yoda realizes that while the Sith have spent a thousand years since the last war growing, changing, and evolving, the Jedi have spent those same thousand years training to refight fight the ''last'' war. Yoda's Jedi Order just doesn't know how to combat this new Sith threat, and the fight was over before the Jedi even realized they were in one.



** It could be that most races aren't capable of making the sounds Wookies use to name themselves, so they adopt names in Basic for communicating with others. Greedo speaks a language with sounds humans can produce, so he can keep his old name; Chewbacca doesn't seem to. (Many immigrants who move to English-speaking countries in the real world change their name for this reason, if their language is hard to pronounce in the local tongue.)
* In the most recent Star Wars Insider magazine this troper got, there was an article talking about a book that will be released titled ''Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Conviction''. The author Aaron Allston in the article said that the Jedi Order ends up taking control of the Galactic Alliance government. He makes it clear that this is a bad thing, and that the situation would be akin to the World Wrestling Federation suddenly taking over NATO. He also points that apart from Leia, the Jedi have shown on the political level that they are only good at settling problems through quick and confident acts of violence. This troper thought about what the article said and then realized something. Practically no Jedi, except for Leia, has ever been a politician. The Jedi Order truly has little to no concept of the mechanics of politics and how running a government works. Then this troper realized that this explains a number of things. It explains why Obi-Wan assumed that Padme was a greedy, looking-out-for-herself politician (when she was the total opposite), and did not seem to lump Palpatine with her. It explains why the Jedi never seemed to sense anything out of the ordinary with Palpatine - how could they when they understood nothing about the political machinery he was hiding in? It explains why Jacen Solo did a horrible job of running the government - because he did not really understand how politics work. It also explains why the Sith did a horrible job of running the government...they knew how the system worked, but only to benefit themselves and not how to use it to benefit everyone else.
* Regarding the question on why Palpatine did not sense Vader turning on him, this troper realized something. In the book ''Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Revelation'', Ben Skywalker thinks to himself how Jacen Solo had become so saturated in war, danger and deceit that he ended up treating danger as noise to be filtered out (as an explanation for why Jacen's danger sense did not kick in while he was confessing to murdering Mara Jade and he was being recorded without his knowledge). This troper realized that this explanation could easily be applied to Palpatine and the Sith. This explanation could even apply to the Jedi Order. The danger sense ability is actually unreliable (especially in war) and the Jedi and Sith fail to realize this one simple fact (instead they rely on it too much).

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** It could be that most races aren't capable of making the sounds Wookies Wookiees use to name themselves, so they adopt names in Basic for communicating with others. Greedo speaks a language with sounds humans can produce, so he can keep his old name; Chewbacca doesn't seem to. (Many immigrants who move to English-speaking countries in the real world change their name for this reason, if their language is hard to pronounce in the local tongue.)
* In the most recent Star Wars Insider magazine this troper Troper got, there was an article talking about a book that will be released titled ''Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Conviction''. The author Aaron Allston in the article said that the Jedi Order ends up taking control of the Galactic Alliance government. He makes it clear that this is a bad thing, and that the situation would be akin to the World Wrestling Federation suddenly taking over NATO. He also points that apart from Leia, the Jedi have shown on the political level that they are only good at settling problems through quick and confident acts of violence. This troper Troper thought about what the article said and then realized something. Practically no Jedi, except for Leia, has ever been a politician. The Jedi Order truly has little to no concept of the mechanics of politics and how running a government works. Then this troper Troper realized that this explains a number of things. It explains why Obi-Wan assumed that Padme was a greedy, looking-out-for-herself politician (when she was the total opposite), and did not seem to lump Palpatine with her. It explains why the Jedi never seemed to sense anything out of the ordinary with Palpatine - how could they when they understood nothing about the political machinery he was hiding in? It explains why Jacen Solo did a horrible job of running the government - because he did not really understand how politics work. It also explains why the Sith did a horrible job of running the government...they knew how the system worked, but only to benefit themselves and not how to use it to benefit everyone else.
* Regarding the question on why Palpatine did not sense Vader turning on him, this troper realized something. In the book ''Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Revelation'', Ben Skywalker thinks to himself how Jacen Solo had become so saturated in war, danger and deceit that he ended up treating danger as noise to be filtered out (as an explanation for why Jacen's danger sense did not kick in while he was confessing to murdering Mara Jade and he was being recorded without his knowledge). This troper Troper realized that this explanation could easily be applied to Palpatine and the Sith. This explanation could even apply to the Jedi Order. The danger sense ability is actually unreliable (especially in war) and the Jedi and Sith fail to realize this one simple fact (instead they rely on it too much).



*** There is no need for namecalling Newton. While the Star Wars does take plenty of shortcuts with overcoming the laws of Physics, nowhere (that I know of) is there mentioned that the laws of Physics are different from our world. All the spaceships in Star Wars setting have artificial gravity for crew comfort, they serve a specific purpose. Those artificial gravity generators don't exist just because. What exactly would be the purpose of putting an artificial gravity generator into a lightsaber just to prevent it from jerking a little when the blade shuts down while not being held? That would be quite a vanity modification highly uncharacteristic of the jedi.

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*** There is no need for namecalling name-calling Newton. While the Star Wars does take plenty of shortcuts with overcoming the laws of Physics, nowhere (that I know of) is there mentioned that the laws of Physics are different from our world. All the spaceships in Star Wars setting have artificial gravity for crew comfort, they serve a specific purpose. Those artificial gravity generators don't exist just because. What exactly would be the purpose of putting an artificial gravity generator into a lightsaber just to prevent it from jerking a little when the blade shuts down while not being held? That would be quite a vanity modification highly uncharacteristic of the jedi.



** Then cosnider how Luke was able to resist the Dark Side, as well as Mara when she rescued Kyle in the finale of 'Mysteries Of The Sith'. Both Luke and Mara had, between them, varying degrees of Jedi training. Mara, from the Emperor, and Luke, from Obi-Wan and Yoda. Mara even had some training from Kyle, except Kyle himself had no training. The best he had was some advice given to him from Rahn during the events of 'Dark Forces 2' and a lot of improvisation. Kyle, as such, would have had no real instruction on the temptations of the Dark Side and how easy it can be to fall to it

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** Then cosnider consider how Luke was able to resist the Dark Side, as well as Mara when she rescued Kyle in the finale of 'Mysteries Of The Sith'. Both Luke and Mara had, between them, varying degrees of Jedi training. Mara, from the Emperor, and Luke, from Obi-Wan and Yoda. Mara even had some training from Kyle, except Kyle himself had no training. The best he had was some advice given to him from Rahn during the events of 'Dark Forces 2' and a lot of improvisation. Kyle, as such, would have had no real instruction on the temptations of the Dark Side and how easy it can be to fall to it



* In the Star Wars universe as a whole, AlternativeCharacterInterpretation is the reason why many end up not supporting the Jedi. At first, the Jedi are painted as a peaceful, almost monk-like organization, centred around achieving balance with themselves and the universe. However, consider for a moment the following facts. The Jedi is a warrior cult who operate entirely on their own, and have nobody regulating them, other than the fact that they ''usually'' go along with what the Senate wants... except when the Jedi decide they don't like it. Now imagine that the Jedi, in the course of their "duties," have the right to search people's homes and property with no authorization, can read people's minds, ''can actually control some people's minds'', and have the right to ''kill'' people they don't approve of. Remember in episode two, when Anakin and Obi-Wan ''dismember'' a person in front of a crowd of bargoers? "Jedi business, go back to your drinks." Sounds a lot more sinister when you consider what you've read here, doesn't it? Now consider that this cult takes people away from their homes and families as small children, so as to better brainwash them into believing their teachings. They force celibacy onto these converts before they even understand the idea of sex. They also preach the total divorce of self from personal emotions, because using one's powers in an emotional state is eeeeeeevil. Anyone who comes to the realization that these people are full of crap are promptly kicked out of the order, unless they leave of their own will. After they are kicked out, they are labelled as "Dark Jedi," because any views other than the Jedi's own are eeeeeeevil. These people also believe that "balance" in the force consists of people who believe in the application of the force in any way other than theirs being killed.
** They cut off Zam Wesell's arm after she tried to ''kill a Senator''. Please watch the movie before you make judgements. Also, they were right about balance. There are two ways to use the Force; the light way and the dark way. The dark way uses the Force ''wrong'', the same way that brutally beating and abusing a horse to make it do more work is using it ''wrong''. In the novelization of RotJ, Luke thinks that the lightening is an aberration of the Force. The dark side ''isn't mean to be'', so the Jedi are perfectly in the right thinking that destroying this aberration that wasn't created by nature and was created by human beings wanting power and fuelling their power on rage and hatred will cause balance. Why wouldn't it?

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* In the Star Wars universe as a whole, AlternativeCharacterInterpretation is the reason why many end up not supporting the Jedi. At first, the Jedi are painted as a peaceful, almost monk-like organization, centred around achieving balance with themselves and the universe. However, consider for a moment the following facts. The Jedi is a warrior cult who operate entirely on their own, and have nobody regulating them, other than the fact that they ''usually'' go along with what the Senate wants... except when the Jedi decide they don't like it. Now imagine that the Jedi, in the course of their "duties," have the right to search people's homes and property with no authorization, can read people's minds, ''can actually control some people's minds'', and have the right to ''kill'' people they don't approve of. Remember in episode two, when Anakin and Obi-Wan ''dismember'' a person in front of a crowd of bargoers? bar-goers? "Jedi business, go back to your drinks." Sounds a lot more sinister when you consider what you've read here, doesn't it? Now consider that this cult takes people away from their homes and families as small children, so as to better brainwash them into believing their teachings. They force celibacy onto these converts before they even understand the idea of sex. They also preach the total divorce of self from personal emotions, because using one's powers in an emotional state is eeeeeeevil. Anyone who comes to the realization that these people are full of crap are promptly kicked out of the order, unless they leave of their own will. After they are kicked out, they are labelled as "Dark Jedi," because any views other than the Jedi's own are eeeeeeevil. These people also believe that "balance" in the force consists of people who believe in the application of the force in any way other than theirs being killed.
** They cut off Zam Wesell's arm after she tried to ''kill a Senator''. Please watch the movie before you make judgements.judgments. Also, they were right about balance. There are two ways to use the Force; the light way and the dark way. The dark way uses the Force ''wrong'', the same way that brutally beating and abusing a horse to make it do more work is using it ''wrong''. In the novelization of RotJ, Luke thinks that the lightening is an aberration of the Force. The dark side ''isn't mean to be'', so the Jedi are perfectly in the right thinking that destroying this aberration that wasn't created by nature and was created by human beings wanting power and fuelling fueling their power on rage and hatred will cause balance. Why wouldn't it?



*** Grievous' backstory shows the Jedi in a whole new light, from the perspective of a people fighting their alien oppressors. Suddenly the Jedi swoop in, blockade their planet, and a huge percentage of the kaleesh starve.

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*** Grievous' backstory shows the Jedi in a whole new light, from the perspective of a people fighting their alien oppressors. Suddenly the Jedi swoop in, blockade their planet, and a huge percentage of the kaleesh Kaleesh starve.



** The Jedi proclaim that Fear is of the Dark Side and yet ''fear'' Love for it's potential to cause one to fall to the Dark Side. It's no wonder they seem corrupt when they have all fallen to the Dark Side without knowing it. One of Yoda's problems was an inability to acknowledge his darkness which threatened to destroy him until he acknowledged it. Even after acknowledging his inner darkness he inadvertantly let it control him during Anakin's talk with him during ''Revenge of the Sith'' about the visions he had been having.

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** The Jedi proclaim that Fear is of the Dark Side and yet ''fear'' Love for it's potential to cause one to fall to the Dark Side. It's no wonder they seem corrupt when they have all fallen to the Dark Side without knowing it. One of Yoda's problems was an inability to acknowledge his darkness which threatened to destroy him until he acknowledged it. Even after acknowledging his inner darkness he inadvertantly inadvertently let it control him during Anakin's talk with him during ''Revenge of the Sith'' about the visions he had been having.



* From the first film, it is established both that droids are sentient and self aware enough to be loveable, sympathetic characters, and that they're ''routinely memory-wiped''.
** Supplementary materials say that it takes a long time without memory wipes to develop these behaviours. R2-D2 hadn't been memory wiped in decades, and I'm pretty sure Anakin built C-3P0 like that

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* From the first film, it is established both that droids are sentient and self aware enough to be loveable, lovable, sympathetic characters, and that they're ''routinely memory-wiped''.
** Supplementary materials say that it takes a long time without memory wipes to develop these behaviours.behaviors. R2-D2 hadn't been memory wiped in decades, and I'm pretty sure Anakin built C-3P0 like that



*** Following through with the above, it's very likely that the DS1 was filled with civilian workers and forced labour when it was destroyed(and this is outright stated in EU material on a couple occasions), as, as mentioned, it had just finished construction and had its first weapons test on Jedha and then again on Scarif and Alderaan, with the intent to blow Yavin IV to hell as well. At no point did they stop for a breath and let the workers off; they were constantly chasing the Rebels from point A to point B from the moment of completion. Was it necessary to destroy the Death Star to prevent the destruction of the Rebellion and the solidification of Imperial Dominance? Yes. Is a Necessary Evil any less Evil? No. The Rebels have always been morally grey; Rogue One is just the first film to out-and-out say, "Yeah, they're the protagonists, but they aren't morally good." Worth noting the opposite of this is why people were up in arms about Disney; they thought it would get softer, and we got the single darkest film in the canon from them(And, quite rightly, one hailed as being the best since Empire).

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*** Following through with the above, it's very likely that the DS1 was filled with civilian workers and forced labour labor when it was destroyed(and this is outright stated in EU material on a couple occasions), as, as mentioned, it had just finished construction and had its first weapons test on Jedha and then again on Scarif and Alderaan, with the intent to blow Yavin IV to hell as well. At no point did they stop for a breath and let the workers off; they were constantly chasing the Rebels from point A to point B from the moment of completion. Was it necessary to destroy the Death Star to prevent the destruction of the Rebellion and the solidification of Imperial Dominance? Yes. Is a Necessary Evil any less Evil? No. The Rebels have always been morally grey; Rogue One is just the first film to out-and-out say, "Yeah, they're the protagonists, but they aren't morally good." Worth noting the opposite of this is why people were up in arms about Disney; they thought it would get softer, and we got the single darkest film in the canon from them(And, quite rightly, one hailed as being the best since Empire).



*** I always viewed it as grooming because ROTS makes clear that Palpatine has been an important presence in Anakin's life since he arrived on Coruscant - Anakin refers to him as a mentor and a friend, having watched over him ever since he arrived. There's also the familiarity with which Anakin and Palpatine interact in AOTC (and the frightening degree of deference Anakin accords him). Obi-Wan himself notes that their relationship makes the Council uncomfortable because they are too close. Considering Anakin hasn't been on Coruscant for at least several months at this point (and their interactions from previous films) the evidence has always seemed to point to a long-standing relationship in this troper's opinion.

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*** I always viewed it as grooming because ROTS makes clear that Palpatine has been an important presence in Anakin's life since he arrived on Coruscant - Anakin refers to him as a mentor and a friend, having watched over him ever since he arrived. There's also the familiarity with which Anakin and Palpatine interact in AOTC (and the frightening degree of deference Anakin accords him). Obi-Wan himself notes that their relationship makes the Council uncomfortable because they are too close. Considering Anakin hasn't been on Coruscant for at least several months at this point (and their interactions from previous films) the evidence has always seemed to point to a long-standing relationship in this troper's Troper's opinion.



* Droids in the Star Wars universe are initially nonsentient, unable to do or think anything outside their programming, but if they aren't routinely memory wiped they become sentient. The horror comes when you realize that if people were to have their memories erased to around our births every few weeks or so, we wouldn't be sentient either, we'd be no more than animals. That's essentially what droids that are routinely memory wiped are, babies that are set back to factory settings and required to relearn everything all over again every memory wipe. Sure, technically droids aren't slaves since they're nonsentient, but the only reason they AREN'T sentient to begin with is the people in Star Wars never let the babies grow up, as it were.

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* Droids in the Star Wars universe are initially nonsentient, non-sentient, unable to do or think anything outside their programming, but if they aren't routinely memory wiped they become sentient. The horror comes when you realize that if people were to have their memories erased to around our births every few weeks or so, we wouldn't be sentient either, we'd be no more than animals. That's essentially what droids that are routinely memory wiped are, babies that are set back to factory settings and required to relearn everything all over again every memory wipe. Sure, technically droids aren't slaves since they're nonsentient, non-sentient, but the only reason they AREN'T sentient to begin with is the people in Star Wars never let the babies grow up, as it were.



** That's not the reason Obi-Wan did not kill Anakin. The reason he does not do so is because he was very angry, and killing Anakin in such circumstances would leave Obi-Wan very near to falling in the Dark Side, and anyway he thought that Anakin would actually die after losing his limbs and nearly falling into the lava. It probably wasn't until much later that he realised that Anakin was still alive, and probably thought that Luke was his only hope to defeat Darth Vader and the Emperor.

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** That's not the reason Obi-Wan did not kill Anakin. The reason he does not do so is because he was very angry, and killing Anakin in such circumstances would leave Obi-Wan very near to falling in the Dark Side, and anyway he thought that Anakin would actually die after losing his limbs and nearly falling into the lava. It probably wasn't until much later that he realised realized that Anakin was still alive, and probably thought that Luke was his only hope to defeat Darth Vader and the Emperor.



* The lightsaber Luke proudly uses in ANH and TESB was given to him by Obi-Wan because it belonged to his father Anakin. Meaning it's the same one Anakin used to slaughter the sandpeople in AOTC and the other Jedi, including the younglings in ROTS.

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* The lightsaber Luke proudly uses in ANH and TESB was given to him by Obi-Wan because it belonged to his father Anakin. Meaning it's the same one Anakin used to slaughter the sandpeople Sand People in AOTC and the other Jedi, including the younglings in ROTS.



** Not necessary. It's shown in ''A New Hope'' that droids can deactivate, reactivate, and recharge themselves. Even without it, [=R2D2=] can simly excaust his energy (unlikely but possible), and be in hibernation, which downplays FridgeHorror. So, why can't R2 do that?
* In "A New Hope", Han and Luke have to blast their way past a handful of TIE Fighters to escape the Death Star. However it later becomes clear that Tarkin and Vader let the Millenium Falcon escape with minimum resistance so they could find the rebel base. That means that they sent a couple of poor schmucks out after the Falcon knowing they'd probably get shot down, and even if they didn't, they'd at least have destroyed all trace of the plans and destroyed any hope of the rebels destroying the Death Star - a win-win for them, but it makes you wonder exactly how often they sacrifice pilots for a tactical gain.

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** Not necessary. It's shown in ''A New Hope'' that droids can deactivate, reactivate, and recharge themselves. Even without it, [=R2D2=] can simly excaust exhaust his energy (unlikely but possible), and be in hibernation, which downplays FridgeHorror. So, why can't R2 do that?
* In "A New Hope", Han and Luke have to blast their way past a handful of TIE Fighters to escape the Death Star. However it later becomes clear that Tarkin and Vader let the Millenium Millennium Falcon escape with minimum resistance so they could find the rebel base. That means that they sent a couple of poor schmucks out after the Falcon knowing they'd probably get shot down, and even if they didn't, they'd at least have destroyed all trace of the plans and destroyed any hope of the rebels destroying the Death Star - a win-win for them, but it makes you wonder exactly how often they sacrifice pilots for a tactical gain.


*** Worse, to the galaxy at large it looked like a case of ScrewTheRulesIHaveSupernaturalPowers Even the Jedi had no idea that Palpatine was a Sith Lord until Anakin told them when they were ''already'' on their way to his office to forcibly depose him at lightsaber point. They merely thought he was a CorruptPolitician. But acting unilaterally this way, bypassing the legislature and the judiciary of the Republic entirely, only served to make Palpatine's version of the story sound true. Since Anakin never even told Padme or anyone else, the fact that Palpatine was a Sith would take years to come out, and that he was also the secret leader of the Separatists and the instigator of the Clone Wars was never revealed at all! This would have only served to fuel propaganda about [[BewareTheSuperman the dangers of having an organization like the Jedi around]]. He could even use the same accusation that the Jedi had leveled at ''him'', claiming that they had become addicted to power during their time as generals of the Army of the Republic and that with the imminent defeat of the Separatists they had decided to seize power rather than return to their previous role as mere peacekeepers.

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*** Worse, to the galaxy at large it looked like a case of ScrewTheRulesIHaveSupernaturalPowers Even the Jedi had no idea that Palpatine was a Sith Lord until Anakin told them when they were ''already'' on their way to his office to forcibly depose him at lightsaber point. They merely thought he was a CorruptPolitician. But acting unilaterally this way, bypassing the legislature and the judiciary of the Republic entirely, only served to make Palpatine's version of the story sound true. Since Anakin never even told Padme or anyone else, the fact that Palpatine was a Sith would take years to come out, and that he was also the secret leader of the Separatists and the instigator of the Clone Wars was never revealed at all! This would have only served to fuel propaganda about [[BewareTheSuperman the dangers of having an organization like the Jedi around]]. He could even use the same accusation that the Jedi had leveled at ''him'', claiming that they had become addicted to power during their time as generals of the Army of the Republic and that with the imminent defeat of the Separatists they had decided to seize power rather than return to their previous role as mere peacekeepers.(In Luceno's novelization, that's exactly what he told to Senate.)


* The Jedi Order is a religious order that heavily represses the sexual and romantic inclinations of its members. In real life, many experts contend that such repression has contributed to to widespread sexual abuse in organizations such as the Catholic Church, most infamously the sexual abuse of children. And then you remember that the Jedi temple houses ''younglings''. While the Jedi might not insist on complete celibacy, discouraging “romantic attachment” can still lead its members to develop very unhealthy ideas about sexuality or express their sexuality in unhealthy ways. In hindsight, Anakin's ill-advised relationship that was none-the-less with a consenting adult was probably only the tip-of-the-iceberg in terms of the sexual mistakes committed by the Jedi.

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