This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Working Title: The Daisuke: From YKTTW
Glidergun: Okay, I'd say this was launched (very) prematurely, and at least needs a better title. Not Even In The Running or Hopeless Suitor or something. Character-name tropes should be super iconic, and in no way does Digimon come anywhere near, say, The Ditz or Scrappy-Doo in terms of recognizability.
Etrangere: agreed. Hopeless Suitor is short and to the point.
Cassius335: I don't recall "super-iconic" being a rule, Glidergun. I have no idea who Paolo is, for example.
EDIT: Huh. According to the page, Paolo is a guest character from the first season of Friends. "Super-iconic", that ain't.
Etrangere: That there were mistakes done in the past doesn't excuse making new ones now :p
Glidergun: Yeah, it's not a "rule" of the TV Tropes Wiki per se, that's just my feeling on the matter. The title of a trope is supposed to be a shorthand for the contents; we say "Lampshade Hanging" because "pointing out that you're using a common trope" is a bit unwieldy. If we want to name a trope after a specific character, it should probably be a) popular enough that most people (or a significant number of people) will think of that one character and b) so strongly tied to the trope that people will then think of that trope. There are some exceptions that have been used so frequently and for so long on the wiki that they can probably be Grandfather Claused in, like Xanatos Gambit and variations, but I feel that others, like The Kimberly or The Paolo as you mentioned, should probably be changed.
Sackett: Count me as another for Hopeless Suitor, although I think Stalker with a Crush and Dogged Nice Guy cover this pretty well. Although I guess this could be a supertrope of Hopeless Suitors. Handsome Lech should probably be included.
Cassius335: Hmm... while I'm not a fan of the name myself, how about having "Hopeless Suitor" as a redirect to here?
KJMackley: Well, whatever the name turns out to be I changed the description a little. One line deserves to be kept for posterity. "The Daisuke's chances are between Slim To None and Slim having erectile dysfunction." Funny, but somewhat confusing and Slim To None doesn't appear to be a trope.
K: I don't think Daisuke is the best choice for this trope's name. His crush on Hikari kinda disappears around the time Ken officially makes his Heel–Face Turn, and their Digimon partners do their Fusion Dance. Daisuke's major attention is focused on Ken at that point, and the plot's major focus is Daisuke's heroism.
Cassius335: It shows up briefly in the second Diaboromon movie. Besides, dissapeared or not, it was still a factor in the first half of the show.
Jisu: Fact is, Takeru and Hikari were a Fan-Preferred Couple, but they were Just Friends in-series, and by the Grand Finale, they were married off to completely random background characters. That alone should mean that Daisuke should not be the Trope Namer.
Cassius335: On the contrary T&H were the nearest thing the show had to an Official Couple (Matt/Sora and Ken/Wormon were later on), with varying amounts of subtext (the Dagomon ep, If I heard correctly, was more shippy than the dub version, unusually). Yeah, they didn't end up together, but that's besides the point.
BlueSkyKnight: Personally, I think this article needs to either be renamed or deleted altogether. I haven't seen the series in a long time but I do remember that A) this article is trying to say that Takeru and Hikari were romantically involved where in the show they weren't and B) his crush did fade. Also, wouldn't something like be be covered in other articles or at least deserve some sort of memorable name?
Twin Bird: Yeah, this really needs a better name. Paolo, at least, has become firmly rooted in TV Tropes, and it's a memorable enough name. Daisuke - when I saw this page, I thought it was Daisuke Niwa - really, it could easily be anyone from Moriyama to Matsuzaka. Could we at least not go with an anime that so many tropers must have first seen in the throes of Americanitis?
lovebug: There's nothing wrong with having Daisuke as the trope namer. I think there are enough tropes that have been named by some obscure character in a random Shakespeare play (or any other old story that most people don't know) that the average person will never read (or even hear about). ALSO, there are a lot of unmemorable trope namers. For example: Who the hell is Paolo? Who/what/where(???) is the Cassandra in Cassandra Truth? How many kids these days recognize where Red Shirt came from?... Scratch that, how many kids watch Star Trek in the first place?
There's nothing wrong with Shakespeare or Star Trek, of course. However, a wiki is meant to reflect information gathered from all sorts of sources. Give Digimon a chance! its not even a popular trope namer or anything! Spotlight-Stealing Squad won't be changed to The Takuya And Kouji Manuver (Digimon Frontier) anytime soon believe me!
Also, one of tvtropes's secondary goals is to aim for humor in their articles. Hopeless Suitor or any of the aforementioned suggestions just aren't as funny as a real example.
When I first saw The Daisuke link, Daisuke Motomiya was the first person I thought of actually (I've read DN Angel.) But, I agree with Twinbird that the name can be improved for the purpose of conciseness. 'The Daisuke Motomiya' or simply 'The Motomiya' will do.
Andrew: I know that the idea of a canon has gone out of style in recent decades, but there's something to be said for significance and universality. Shakespeare undoubtedly qualifies. Star Trek, less so, to be sure, but again, there's history and legacy there. Kids under 20 might not have seen an episode of the original series, but (if you're my age) you watched a lot of The Next Generation. Or Voyager. Or Deep Space Nine. Or Enterprise. OK, maybe not Enterprise, but you get the picture.
And as others have mentioned, you can't defend a bad idea by pointing to past bad ideas. We have some threads that are named after obscure characters. Those are mistakes. It makes no sense to compound the mistake by using it as justification to commit new ones.
The Daisuke isn't funny. It's not funny because the context of the joke is unfamiliar to a lot of people. The Daisuke is an inside joke with a slightly larger audience than the ones shared by groups of five college friends.
When given a chance, err on the side of clarity. Hopeless Suitor isn't funny, but it quickly and clearly communicates the concept in question. Send this one back to the discussion phase. If you're lucky, some troper will have a spark of genius and come up with a title that is both clear and funny.
Cassius335: I'm pretty sure being funny isn't mandatory.
Working Title: Rename The Daisuke: From YKTTW
