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TnAdct1
topic
08:36:03 PM Feb 28th 2014
For those trying to edit the order of the episode (given what's been going on today), just a friendly reminder: the list goes by production order, not by broadcast order. If an episode airs out of production order, you should include a note saying that rather than trying to rearrange the order.

In other words: Season 4, Episode 19 production wise is going to air later in the season and out of order in terms of broadcast order. Hence, please keep that entry as To Be Announced until that episode is officially announced (instead of listing the episode that is actually episode 20 in production order as episode 19).
harryhenry
topic
03:16:45 PM Dec 5th 2013
edited by 121.99.54.21
Archive of aprils fools day titles:

1. Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Wingin' It" part 1

2. Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Wingin' It" part 2
  1. To Be Announcednote 
  2. To Be Announcednote 
  3. To Be Announcednote 
  4. To Be Announcednote 
  5. To Be Announcednote 
  6. To Be Announcednote 
  7. To Be Announcednote 
  8. To Be Announcednote 
  9. To Be Announcednote 
  10. To Be Announcednote 
  11. To Be Announcednote 
  12. To Be Announcednote 
  13. To Be Announcednote 
Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "It Ain't Easy Being Breezies"[[/note]] Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Just Forget It"[[/note]] ]Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Death Comes to Ponyville"[[/note]] Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Maude Pie"[[/note]] Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "For Whom The Sweetie Bell Tolls" ]Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "It Ain't Easy Bein' Weezy"[[/note]] Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Best Pony"[[/note]]

23. Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Spike and Rarity Sittin' in a Tree"

24. Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Let the Games Begin"

25. Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Princess Discord" part 1

26. Meghan McCarthy's April Fools' Day 2013 episode title: "Princess Discord" part 2
dogman15
topic
08:24:24 PM Jul 23rd 2013
I think short pages can be started for the four episodes we saw a sneak peek of. We've got dialouge and visuals for what is slated to occur, and if I tried hard enough, I could identify the tropes seen in those animatics. Those four episodes deserve to have their recap pages started.
Telcontar
moderator
12:51:40 AM Jul 24th 2013
The episodes don't have titles yet, so we'd just need to create the page with clumsy titles and move them later, which seems more trouble than it's worth for a few brief clips which will show few tropes.
immblueversion
topic
06:18:21 PM Jul 20th 2013
Were there any April Fool's titles for season 3? I'm kinda doubting it, considering no one bothered to list them.

But still...these titles tell us nothing about the episodes themselves, other than that they were made by the creators solely to toy with fans, as far as I'm concerned. I think they should be removed.
immblueversion
topic
01:36:52 PM Apr 29th 2013
April Fool's titles. Are they necessary?
TomSFox
topic
04:38:48 AM Feb 11th 2013
edited by TomSFox
What is the source for this? 25.media.tumblr.com/4ce1f0fb926e0ee3dd6a9e8f0ce8ac11/tumblr_mhzrcknfpD1rm3kdfo1_1280.jpg
TomSFox
07:36:56 AM Feb 11th 2013
Never mind, just some guy on tumblr. Don't post things from random people who claim to have some inside knowledge.
lazinesslord
topic
09:47:03 AM Dec 15th 2012
Maybe we should stop putting Absentee Actor in the episode recaps anymore. It made sense in the first season when all of the Mane Six would be in almost every episode, but it's clear that the format of the show has since then changed. Now it's pretty much normal for only some of the characters not be in the episode. I'm saying this because almost every episode in season three (and also a good amount of season two episodes) has this trope in their recap pages even though it shouldn't really apply since the character wouldn't have been relevant.
kyun
topic
01:45:28 PM Nov 14th 2012
Why are there no YMMV pages on the third season premiere episode pages? Is it just that no one has gotten to add them yet?
ShadowHog
topic
01:28:42 PM Nov 2nd 2012
edited by ShadowHog
I haven't dabbled in this in a good while, but I just wanted to give a heads-up to everyone involved with this:

DO NOT PUT QUOTATION MARKS IN THE CUSTOM TITLE TOOL.

While quotation marks for episode titles is proper style (and should be used in the actual body of the page), the custom title tool is presently bugged and will cut off all text in the custom title from the first quotation mark onward. Custom titles that already have quotation marks (as this did work in the past) can keep them.

See this thread in Tech Wishlist & Bug Reports for more information.
ThMole
topic
12:15:50 PM Jul 24th 2012
According to some comments over on the Derpibooru image site, the studio is switching to thirteen episodes a season, and TWO seasons per year, with shorter gaps in between seasons. This lightens everyone’s load with work on the show, and the viewer’s impatience. However, this wouldn't be the first time bronies have been trolled about future episodes, so take this "news" with a grain of salt until it is verified. Read about it in the comments here.

So if true, do we label the seasons "3.1" & "3.2"?
Redmess
02:48:07 AM Apr 22nd 2014
Does a season neccesarily need to cover a year? If not, just numbering the seasons as usual seems fine. But I think this is Call a Rabbit a "Smeerp", really. A season is just a season, and if they split it in two, we could just call them the first and second half, just like with South Park.
troacctid
topic
05:28:31 PM May 20th 2012
A reminder, if an individual episode has its own reviews, then for tech reasons, the page type must be set to "work", not "examples", in order for the reviews tab to show up correctly.
Whatshisgame
topic
09:31:20 PM Apr 23rd 2012
edited by Whatshisgame
Why do the first two episodes' page titles use their alternate titles ("Mare in the Moon" and "Elements of Harmony")? I'm thinking that they should be located at Recap.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 1 E 1 Friendship Is Magic Part 1 and Recap.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 1 E 2 Friendship Is Magic Part 2 (with Recap.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 1 E 1 Mare In The Moon and Recap.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 1 E 2 Elements Of Harmony functioning as redirects), since "Friendship is Magic, part 1" and "Friendship is Magic, part 2" are the actual titles displayed and the other two (EDIT: three) 2-parters use the "Episode Title: Part X" format exclusively.
Whatshisgame
01:17:58 AM Dec 14th 2012
It's been almost two-thirds of a year and there hasn't been any objection to this suggestion, so I guess it's okay to go ahead and do it, then?
whizzerd
topic
11:18:06 AM Apr 22nd 2012
I've noticed on some of the pages that spoilers are used, and I'm wondering if we should do this considering the entire plot of each episode, twists included, is recapped at the start of each page and thus anyone reading them should know that they'll be spoiled upon entering. I understand if the spoilered parts are relating to an event in future episodes that the reader may not want to be spoiled about, but everything else just seems superfluous.
Ravenhull
topic
12:46:23 PM Mar 28th 2012
My Little Brony has what is proported to be an image of the Season 3 guide showing the first 4 episodes. I don't know where to look to see if this is an accurate thing, or a hoax. But I figured those who do know where to look can verify, and maybe start updating the Season 3 list...
GoldenSandslash
03:52:01 PM Mar 28th 2012
It was a vandalized Wikipedia article that everyone took seriously. It was a hoax. They actually showed the first 7, if you check the history (or just click here).

Fake because:

1) The episodes seem too implausible, given the fact that this is a KID'S SHOW. (For specific details, see here.) 2) Wikipedia is not a trustworthy source. 3) It's far too early for a leak.
Ravenhull
05:54:57 PM Mar 28th 2012
That was my suspicion. Thanks for the info.
Whatshisgame
topic
10:36:13 AM Feb 18th 2012
edited by Whatshisgame
Layout artist Nayuki has stated that there are 26 episodes this season, which matches up with the number that Daniel Ingram originally revealed. The rumor of Season 2 having 28 episodes came from SoSilver's tour of Hasbro Italy, and he later clarified that "They told me to keep an eye around those episodes but it's not certain wich ones ( they didn't remember the correct episodes), but i am positive it will be about the end of seson 2."

EDIT: And now Jayson Thiessen has confirmed that there are 8 episodes left in season 2, so that's definitely 26 total, not 28.
Masem
topic
11:10:46 AM Feb 9th 2012
Are we sure about the wedding being in the finale of season 2?

Here's an article that talks about Hasbro's toy plans, and of course they make comment on Princess Cadence and the associated toys — in line for the *fall* wedding.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hasbro-to-debut-innovative-new-play-experiences-from-its-expansive-portfolio-of-iconic-brands-at-the-american-international-toy-fair-2012-02-09

It could be that Hasbro intends to hold off the end of S2 till the fall (omg pony withdrawl) or that this may be the S3 launch.

Or it could just be an in-universe fall wedding.

ShadowHog
08:43:41 AM Feb 11th 2012
No, we are not certain about it; we'll update it as we get closer and more information becomes available, however.
Allik
10:44:04 AM Feb 13th 2012
The latest news from ED has it being in the spring but we won't know for a while.
Whatshisgame
10:35:58 AM Feb 18th 2012
edited by Whatshisgame
  • These five posts by SoSilver tell us that Cadence and Shining Armor are characters from the end of Season 2.
  • The Hub's webpage for the show currently uses the same background as the Cadence/Shining Armor wedding displays seen at Hasbro's world HQ party, at the 2012 Hong Kong Licensing Show, and at the 2012 New York Toy Fair. EDIT: And now they've used it again. EDIT 2: And four more times EDIT 3: Again
  • When asked about Cadence and the wedding, Lauren Faust said "I was very involved in the inception of the story, but I was surprised when I saw she is an alicorn. I don't know who made that decision, but it was after I was no longer working on the show."
ShadowHog
topic
10:55:33 AM Dec 16th 2011
edited by ShadowHog
Crap, started a new topic instead of replying. Delete if possible.
GoldenSandslash15
02:26:30 PM Dec 18th 2011
You know, you can always click "cancel" on your comment when typing it out.
ShadowHog
05:58:38 PM Dec 18th 2011
edited by ShadowHog
You know, that doesn't work when the comment is already submitted. *shrug*
Thebes
topic
01:24:22 PM Nov 23rd 2011
I'd rather see the episodes in Aired order.
Calnos
04:50:10 PM Nov 26th 2011
What's the usual policy for shows that have aired out of order?
GoldenSandslash15
06:54:41 AM Dec 3rd 2011
For what it's worth, Lauren Faust's interview with Equestria Daily told us that The Ticket Master came first in production order. So it's ALREADY in airdate order. I recommend we change Hearth's Warming Eve to S 2 E 11 for consistency's sake.
Whatshisgame
05:44:43 PM Dec 3rd 2011
edited by Whatshisgame
No, all Lauren Faust said (see question 5) is that the original, 11-minute version of "The Ticket Master" was the first script to be written (and that was before the show was even greenlit).

Nayuki says that "Hearth's Warming Eve" will be the first episode to be aired out of production order, so "The Ticket Master" comes third in production order, not first.

Zap2it lists "Hearth's Warming Eve" as episode 13, so we should probably go with that for now (unless, as Calnos mentioned, TV Tropes already has a policy for shows that have aired out of order).

EDIT: Come to think of it, even The Hub's decision might not be enough—see my next post.
ShadowHog
12:45:06 PM Dec 4th 2011
edited by ShadowHog
I agree with Whatshisgame on this matter. It's Episode 13, not Episode 11, and it should be in Episode 13's spot.

As evidence supporting my argument, I took a quick look at the Out of Order article and took a look at which shows had entries under Recap. I haven't done a full look, but both Teen Titans and Firefly are listed on both, and the Recap listings for both shows opts for production order over broadcast order (well, Kids' WB's broadcast order, in the case of Teen Titans). It doesn't exactly scream "this is TV Tropes' official policy on the matter" like Calnos is looking for, but it definitely leans that way.

(I also noticed Star Trek: The Original Series aired out of production order; I'll probably go over that series' recap page, as well as Memory Alpha's order listing (I'm pretty sure that wiki has both airing and production orders), and figure out which one was opted for there.)

I must confess to being rather annoyed that we don't have a synopsis for the real Episode 11 yet, though. Going by this, it's almost like they're going to air the same Christmas episode three weeks in a row. Couldn't they have just swapped 12 and 13 and left 11 out of this entirely...?

EDIT: Okay, I've looked at the Star Trek: The Original Series list on the TV Tropes recap page and all three pages on Memory Alpha - that's definitely in airdate order, which honestly surprises me and undermines my argument, but nevertheless, there it is. I still think our case should opt for production order all the same, especially if, when all three episodes in question get aired finally, any continuity issues arise (minor ones, but something like, say, seeing the Cutie Mark Crusaders officially together before "Call of the Cutie" airs and they form their group). Hell, the Trekkie in me is tempted to go and edit the list for the TOS page to be in production order, too... I don't like inconsistencies.
Whatshisgame
07:47:04 PM Dec 4th 2011
Since The Hub is just a channel that airs the show* , even if they call "Hearth's Warming Eve" episode 11, it could still be episode 13.

If channels in any other countries air the episodes in production order, and they air "Hearth's Warming Eve" as episode 13, that would support it really being 13 (and if they air it as episode 11, they could just be following The Hub's broadcast order).

Of course, seeing as it's a holiday episode, by the time it reaches other countries, those countries' channels might decide to wait until the next holiday season to air it...does anyone know if they did that with "Luna Eclipsed" or not?
Calnos
06:06:40 AM Dec 5th 2011
I think Production Order is probably the way to go, I just wasn't sure how we handled other shows in the past. Firefly is probably a good example, that was aired way out of order but we have it in production order.
Thebes
08:15:39 AM Dec 5th 2011
I don't think it matters as much in the case of FiM as much as Firefly, since nearly every episode is stand-alone and there have been plenty of continuity errors already.
GoldenSandslash15
09:46:09 AM Dec 7th 2011
edited by GoldenSandslash15
MLP Wikia lists them in airdate order, as do most fansites. I dunno if that matters or not.
GoldenSandslash15
04:46:24 PM Dec 10th 2011
Okay, Zap2it has stopped giving episode numbers. 'Family Appreciation Day' doesn't have an episode number. Yet it is listed as S 2 E 12 here. Clearly, we are going by airdate order, so Hearth's Warming Eve should be S 2 E 11. I would change it, but I don't know how. Could someone else do it?
ThMole
08:34:06 PM Dec 10th 2011
TIME'S ALMOST UP!

Which way do we want it? I can do the work, but I've been banned once, and I don't want to be accused of starting an Edit War.
gs
04:31:37 PM Dec 11th 2011
This is simple folks, we don't have a full production order listing. We don't currently know what the 11th production episode is or what was switched around. Production isn't as simple as making one episode then making another in the first place, so production order is a touch arbitrary. The show itself is almost entirely non-linear delieberately so you can watch it in almost any order. I'd cite Star Trek: TOS as an example which That Other Wiki shows as being all over the place with production order versus broadcast order. But lists them in order of airdate.

For the moment the index is overwhelmingly in airing order and keeping airing order provides an indisputable sequential progression order for all episodes from start to finish. Thinking long term what if we have some other episodes switched around but never find out a full production order. Or an episode get produced but for some reason gets cancelled before being finished creating a hole in production order.

Airdate keeps the entire index sequential and without holes whatever occurs. If we get a complete production order or a DVD boxset comes out with everything in one place then this can always be edited again to account for that.

For the next few weeks though you are going to get a high number of people hitting the page expecting it to be Episode 11. For that matter there's going to be plenty of listings for it as Episode 11 (like TV Guide) along with all the fan-sites like Equestria Daily. We are still risking an Edit War as is with tropers simply coming along and going "that's silly it should be in order" on their way put their contributions to the episode page.

I'm not saying we don't note the change as it is, but given how much we don't know it remains simpler to simply list by airdate.

And a final point to consider: The Hub chose to change the order. Without some particular reason (like messing with a sequential storyline) are we to dispute the ordering they decided to change. Probably because they want the Xmas episode to air in time for Christmas. Its not an unreasonable change on their part given that we won't likely get a new for a few weeks due to Christmas and New Years Eve nuking regular programming.

All this in mind I'm going to change it, I won't Edit War over the matter but I'd rather see it done.
Whatshisgame
09:31:07 PM Dec 11th 2011
edited by Whatshisgame
The Hub's numbering doesn't set anything in stone (they're just the channel that gets to air the show first), but I just remembered another source for episode numbering: the iTunes releases. Once "Hearth's Warming Eve" becomes available there, I recommend we go with whichever number iTunes gives it.
ShadowHog
08:23:44 AM Dec 12th 2011
edited by ShadowHog
Yeah, I'm honestly really disappointed that the Zap2It thing, which caused this whole argument in the first place, doesn't bother to clarify it any with the number of the new episode. I was hoping to have some sort of confirmation either way... but nope, nothin'.
ThMole
02:07:03 PM Dec 12th 2011
Okay, I'm going to go with gs, above. Problem solved, then.
ShadowHog
06:46:27 PM Dec 12th 2011
edited by ShadowHog
Not solved; I'm just not in any mood to get into an edit war over it. I still say production order, but since I'm not involved in its production, I can't give you the proper layout for the other episodes at this time. When I can, I intend to reopen this issue.
gs
02:06:59 AM Dec 14th 2011
If we have some more info that's not unreasonable. I'd for example take iTunes as a reasonable sequential, if they skip 11 and 12 to list 13 we've got a ballgame. I'd be a little suprised if that happened but it would be some kind of source. Given how unlikely a Season Box set is at this time and barring a complete release of the production order.

I'd still personally favor airing order as being ultimately simpler and think this all smacks a little of nitpicking. Why is production order a Holy Grail, its not like this is a sequential arc-based show? I don't think we can make any case that the order represents some kind of artistic/creator vision when you can't construct a sensible order (winter before autumn anypony? How long in advance was EP 3 from EP 26?) from the show itself without massive amounts of Fan Wank. What precisely makes the case for production order over the indisputably sequential airing order?
ShadowHog
08:30:09 AM Dec 14th 2011
Aside from the other TV Tropes recap pages that I already cited above, pretty much it's just that it's a known inconsistency, which irks the crap out of me, and that I have the tendency to stick to my convictions once I've made them (I'm stubborn like that). It's too early to tell if there will be any contradictory events arising out of playing the episodes out of order, though, which means it's not worth me pushing heavily for it at this time; and, if we wind up with everything but the kitchen sink saying Episode 11 many months out from now, I'll just have to deal with it.

I just don't want to start up an edit war. I was involved in a pretty back-and-forth one on Wikipedia's page for Sonic (trying to use any image of him other than that god-awful render from Sonic Heroes with the constipated, shit-eating grin, basically), so it's a road I'd rather not travel down once more. Besides, I've already fired the first shot anyway (being the one who created the article in slot 13 in the first place)...
gs
07:21:45 PM Dec 14th 2011
Well I poking about I see that Teen Titans for exampe had complete season box release now five years ago. I'm presuming that became the source of the order though looking through I'm not seeing that many conflicts. If we end up with conflicting orders in actual material released to the public its different. Right now we only have some info that a worker bee for the show has loosely confirmed. That however is not an official statement on how the episodes "should" be ordered, heck we don't even have Nayuki indicating conflict simply that a confirmation that a change occurred.

Now on a different track concerns about continuity, I doubt we have reason for concern.

The show is already anachronic. Consider the series starts at the Summer Sun Celebration, the latest episode is no more then a year from that (Spike's first b-day in Ponyville afterall) yet we see winter turning to spring, THEN autumn in a "later" episode. There's other examples, the gala dresses Early-Bird Cameo at least as early as Swarm Of The Century a whole four episodes before they were made. Clearly the show doesn't care about presenting an ordered story, the dresses on the rack is a convenient flash object not a statement on timing and indicative of how the show is made in piecemeal fashion.

Even aside from strict continuity we've only had only one thematic change so far, from Twilight writing to anypony writing the lesson. However while introduced in Episode Zero, it doesn't take in Luna Eclipsed and we wait until Sisterhooves Social where Twilight doesn't even appear.

While the premise promises a lot of exposition on the background of the show by the same token its probably not going to say... have a major character Put on a Bus somehow.
ShadowHog
10:56:00 AM Dec 16th 2011
gs
12:39:25 PM Dec 16th 2011
Actually old news, this has been reported for awhile. Basically both Hasbro and the DVD distributor have asked for theme releases which show no regards to ordering. However the theme releases are by no means a new phenomena in kids programing, just because of this it may be several years before they stop trying to milk extra profits by tricking kids' parents.

Which is why iTunes is probably going to be our most "official" source of ordering but I suspect they receive them in much the way we do. If they don't raise this conflict its fairly likely never to happen it will be just an tidbit of info.
Whatshisgame
02:01:03 PM Dec 16th 2011
edited by Whatshisgame
Speaking of the DVDs, what if an episode (such as "The Last Roundup") premieres on DVD, and isn't aired until after another new episode airs? (If this ever does happen, it'll probably make production order the less confusing order...assuming we find out what the production order is...)

EDIT: iTunes seems to get their episodes separately from The Hub (in Season 1, at least), seeing as iTunes somehow got sent an unfinished version of "A Dog and Pony Show".
ShadowHog
05:07:11 PM Dec 16th 2011
I have the suspicion that they'll be receiving "Hearth's Warming Eve" as 11, though. Still too early to say, but even as a proponent of it being 13, I'm gonna call it this way.
Whatshisgame
06:11:48 AM Dec 17th 2011
edited by Whatshisgame
Check out the filename of Toonzone's "Hearth's Warming Eve" preview clip!

http://www.toonzone.net/news/images/2011-12/MLPFIM/MLP_213_Clip1.flv

This confirms that it really is Episode 13 of Season 2 in production order. Does this affect anything?

EDIT: Found another filename, this time posted by The Hub themselves! mlp213_008_25.jpg

EDIT 2: iTunes put it up as Episode 13! That settles it, right?

EDIT 3: If we do move "Hearth's Warming Eve" back to 13, what about the currently unnumbered "Family Appreciation Day"? Looks like we've got two options for that one:
  • Guess that Episodes 11 and 13 were switched, and treat "Family Appreciation Day" as Episode 12.
  • Guess that Episode 13 was moved ahead, and treat "Family Appreciation Day" as Episode 11.

I'd vote for treating it as Episode 11, since there's no indication that anything more than "Hearth's Warming Eve" was moved. At least we now know that iTunes will tell us its real number on January 8th.
Calnos
08:20:09 AM Dec 18th 2011
We could probably just wait until the "real" Episodes 11 and 12 surface, and then move them accordingly.
GoldenSandslash15
02:25:30 PM Dec 18th 2011
We should move Hearth's Warming Eve to S 2 E 13. iTunes is an official source, and since most people will look there, it's best that we be consistent with them. Family Appreciation Day has no number yet, but we do know it will be in Season 2. Not sure what to do about that.
GoldenSandslash15
02:25:58 PM Dec 18th 2011
And yes, I am the guy who wanted it moved to S 2 E 11 in the first place. You've converted me.
gs
05:27:26 PM Dec 18th 2011
Yes we will need to change the order, I propose waiting for the page editing to slow down before converting but yes we have a source and reason that iTunes will eventually clear this up.
ShadowHog
06:00:11 PM Dec 18th 2011
Here's what I suggest: since we have no idea what order the other episodes are in, let's keep it at 11 for now, since that's where everyone's going to be expecting it. Once we know how the other episodes fall into place, into 13 it'll go.

It's not that I don't want to move it, I just don't want to be too hasty about it.
GoldenSandslash15
08:50:14 AM Dec 19th 2011
iTunes changed it back to S 2 E 11. Because of this, I vote we do not.
ShadowHog
11:58:42 AM Dec 19th 2011
Wait... wha?

Jeez, they really can't keep this straight.
Whatshisgame
01:31:41 AM Dec 20th 2011
On top of that, Zap2it has numbered "Family Appreciation Day" as S2E11 (apparently its number in production order, seeing as they're still listing "Hearth's Warming Eve" as S2E13).

Now what do we do?
GoldenSandslash15
05:27:33 AM Dec 20th 2011
We make Hearth's Warming Eve S 2 E 11 and Family Appreciation Day S 2 E 12. iTunes is more official than Zap2it.
ShadowHog
07:29:49 AM Dec 20th 2011
edited by ShadowHog
Regardless of what we do, we need to make sure the production order is at least noted. (ED: n/m, it already is. Cool.)

Also, although the odds of this happening are slim to none, it's still possible that when the episode comes out, "Hearth's Warming Eve"'s spot on iTunes would get bumped to 12, and eventually 13 when episode 12 comes out, too.

I dunno, I'm just pissed that iTunes basically confirmed my side was correct, and then suddenly switched to the other. It'd have hurt less if they just came out with it as 11 in the first place.
Whatshisgame
07:39:16 AM Dec 20th 2011
I agree with everything ShadowHog said in that last post.

Also, assuming that Zap2it's numbers are the production order, "Family Appreciation Day" was S2E11 and "Baby Cakes" was S2E12, so at least the orders will (hopefully) be back in sync starting with S2E14.
Calnos
09:17:38 AM Dec 20th 2011
edited by Calnos
We could always wait until the episodes air/officially listed on iTunes to mess with this page.

Crazy idea, I know.
ShadowHog
09:33:10 AM Dec 20th 2011
Not so crazy; for the most part, that's what we're doing. iTunes says 11, so it's in 11. If they change their mind for some reason and move it to 13, we move it to 13.
Whatshisgame
09:54:05 AM Dec 20th 2011
Yeah, I'm not saying to move anything now; it's just possible that in the future, iTunes will bump the numbers back up, which would prompt us to bump them up as well. I'm hoping that they only temporarily changed it to 11 to avoid looking like they inexplicably aren't selling 11 or 12.

In the interest of planning ahead, what about the previously-mentioned possibility of an episode (such as "The Last Roundup") premiering on DVD and not being aired until after another new episode airs? The iTunes order would still take precedence, right?
ShadowHog
09:56:41 AM Dec 20th 2011
Well, it's really the closest thing we have to a boxset, so I'd assume so.
GoldenSandslash15
02:00:38 PM Dec 21st 2011
The Other Wiki has decided to use airdate order, so I vote that we do the same, in order to be consistent.

iTunes appears to be doing the same at the moment, anyways.

Zap2it is the only source still using production order, and it is the least reliable source of the three.

I vote that we keep airdate order. That is:

S 2 E 11 = Hearth's Warming Eve S 2 E 12 = Family Appreciation Day S 2 E 13 = Baby Cakes
Whatshisgame
08:32:24 PM Dec 21st 2011
I vote that we stick with iTunes, meaning leave the episodes as they are now but bump them up if iTunes bumps them up. iTunes order is basically the tiebreaker between production order and broadcast order—hopefully iTunes won't ever Take a Third Option; then things would be even more confusing...

On a side note, BaloneyBrony (one of the show's animators/animation directors; confirmed by Jayson Thiessen to be from behind the scenes) has referred to "Hearth's Warming Eve" as 211 (presumably in broadcast order, since no production order source gives it that number) as well as stated that "Baby Cakes" was 212, during production at least. And Zap2it was mentioned, so it looks like their order really is production order.
gs
08:59:01 PM Dec 21st 2011
Of the expected scenarios I think iTunes doing 13 then 11 was the one I least expected.

We will have to wait for until more episodes are out, if they don't revise the order on iTunes that probably implies the closest we have to a final position given how little production order effects the show.

And at some point we will need to remove the little notes on this because they will become simply confusing.

Anyways for lack of a better source we should keep to iTunes over listing on sites. I find myself asking what Zap2it's source is, since they seem to be the source of the stink.
ShadowHog
07:08:08 AM Dec 22nd 2011
edited by ShadowHog
Keeping it in airdate order is one thing, but I refuse to remove the little notes on it. They're out-of-the-way, anyway, and explicitly spell out we're using airdate order instead of production. How is that confusing?

Unless you mean the ones on the summary pages themselves, which admittedly could stand to be streamlined a bit further (although I'm not entirely sure how - and I'm not especially for their removal there, either).

ED: I've edited the main page, in case that's what you meant, to elaborate on which order we're using. I think it's pretty much unanimous among us that we'll be using the iTunes ordering. I still say we should note the production order, though, as it is presently.
Whatshisgame
05:32:34 PM Dec 24th 2011
The Hub has uploaded "Hearth's Warming Eve" to their website as Season 2 Episode 13, but as previously stated, they're only a channel that airs the show (they just get to air it first), so the iTunes release still takes precedence, right?
ShadowHog
06:27:59 AM Dec 25th 2011
I honestly have no idea anymore. I really really really want to move it back to Episode 13, but the result of the discussion earlier was fairly conclusively in favor of using iTunes' ordering - so that's probably what I'm gonna go with until I have sufficient evidence to go otherwise (for instance, I'd put a proper DVD release over iTunes).

On the plus side, it sure is nice not to have to worry about this chaos with Episode 14!
GoldenSandslash15
11:10:04 AM Dec 26th 2011
We have S 2 E 11 Hearths Warming Eve and S 2 E 13 Hearths Warming Eve both redirect to the same page. Nothing to worry about now.
gs
01:47:04 AM Dec 28th 2011
Hub y u screw wit tropers??

I'm at odds because the Hub should take precedence over iTunes because it is actually run by Hasbro with Discovery, its not just some syndicated station. That said they've made basic mistakes before on the website (like spelling this happened with the Naughty or Nice pages) and presumably this upload will vanish over the long run so we are what going to screen cap and link the pic? When the next episode is uploaded, watch them pull the same stunt iTunes did and reorder them.

Gah I don't even know anymore, let's keep the order we have and take this up again when they all have aired keeping an eye out for any listings in the meantime.
ShadowHog
08:23:08 AM Jan 9th 2012
edited by ShadowHog
Ready for something confusing? iTunes has "Family Appreciation Day" up... as 11. It also has "Hearth's Warming Eve" still up... as 11.

Yes, we have two episode 11s! キターーーー(・∀・)ーーー!! (...sorry)

Honestly, watching all the confusion unfurl in real-time is highly amusing at this point. :P
Whatshisgame
06:21:21 PM Jan 9th 2012
edited by Whatshisgame
Yeah, I saw that too—remember how they had "Hearth's Warming Eve" as 13, then changed it to 11 the next day? They'll probably change one of those two 11s to a 12 tomorrow...I'm hoping it'll be "Hearth's Warming Eve", but I'm expecting it to be "Family Appreciation Day", since it's listed after "Hearth's Warming Eve" there...

Also, I don't know how long they'll stay up, but the thumbnails of The Hub's "Hearth's Warming Eve" upload are still available, so they can take the place of the now-gone video as the Hub source (along with that episode list they sent to Equestria Daily).
ShadowHog
08:49:17 PM Jan 9th 2012
Well, I'm still kind of hoping they'll change it to 13 once we have "Baby Cakes" out. All the signs coming from The Hub sort of imply that's the direction it's going in.

But then, I never expected iTunes to move it from 13 to 11 as it did, nor to have two 11s, so who the hell knows what they're doing at this point...
Whatshisgame
08:32:26 AM Jan 12th 2012
And still two 11s. I can't believe iTunes is taking longer to catch on the second time than they did the first time.

Also, Hasbro's My Little Pony Facebook page posted a list of the Season 2 episodes so far (which I can't view because I don't have a Facebook account), but it apparently only includes 11 episodes, even though 12 episodes have come out. Just in case, though, could somebody with a Facebook account look and see what that list says?
ShadowHog
08:49:34 AM Jan 16th 2012
iTunes finally updated. "Family Appreciation Day" and "Baby Cakes" are 11 and 12, respectively, as per production order.

...but "Hearth's Warming Eve" is still a second 11. ._.
gs
09:50:17 AM Jan 16th 2012
All of this in my mind merely reinforces simply going with airing order. Its clearly the only one we can actually stand by as simpler, clear-cut, and not changing.
GoldenSandslash15
03:46:12 PM Jan 16th 2012
@Whatshisgame: The page says "Hey fans! What has been your favorite episode of season two so far?" And then it lists the following options:

  • The Return of Harmony (Parts 1 & 2)
  • Lesson Zero
  • Luna Eclipsed
  • Sisterhooves Social
  • The Cutie Pox
  • Rainbow Dash episodes May the Best Pet Win! and The Mysterious Mare Do Well
  • Sweet and Elite
  • Secret of my Excess
  • Hearth's Warming Eve
  • Family Appreciation Day

So, they've been combining episodes pointlessly, for one. For another, they do not have "Baby Cakes," which is where the problem lies. The other issue is that they are not numbered.

I say we stick with airdate order, because (1) It's not changing. (2) The Other Wiki does so. (3) The placement of Hearth's Warming Eve doesn't affect the story.
Whatshisgame
03:53:06 PM Jan 16th 2012
edited by Whatshisgame
Well, now that iTunes's numbering matches production order more than broadcast order (2 production matches vs. 1 broadcast match), I'm thinking we should switch back to production order. That's the order The Hub's using (and as gs pointed out, they're not just some syndicated station, they're actually run by Hasbro with Discovery), both in their own website's uploads and in that episode list they emailed to EqD.

EDIT (I was still writing this post when GoldenSandslash15 posted the above post): Hasbro's Facebook list doesn't include "Baby Cakes" because it was posted before "Baby Cakes" aired. Anyway, since that list isn't numbered, should we disregard it?
ShadowHog
06:23:09 PM Jan 16th 2012
Re: The Other Wiki doing it: it's a wiki, and can easily have a few things shuffled around. I mean, I actually intend to bring that issue up there, too, once there's a more solid source to point to (they really like their citations, after all). I was hoping iTunes would fix the two-11s issue today so I could already have brought it up...

I can understand the logic of why you would want to go with airdate, but frankly, I still want to go with what we have for Word of God than... uh... Word of Dante? Word of Fanon? I dunno what you'd call it.
Whatshisgame
06:31:39 PM Jan 16th 2012
edited by Whatshisgame
I once read that if you buy "Hearth's Warming Eve" from iTunes, the downloaded file is still labeled as episode 13. Can anyone who bought it after they switched it to 11 confirm or disprove this?
gs
09:17:20 AM Jan 17th 2012
I've seen alleged direct rips without numbering and with numbering but not with production order numbering.

Incidentally I've changed the description twice now to what the de facto system being used of airing order because that IS what we are using since we are not participating in iTunes own madness of two episode 11s.

And again entirely in favor of airing order. Its what people will be looking for, its the simplest, and it will never change or be confused. For indexing purposes its entirely superior to the production order that very obviously nobody in charge seem to care about. This entire discussion seems to be based on the idea that the order they were made actually matters, which I question.

What precisely is the virtue of production order again? Certainly not sequential storytelling.
ShadowHog
07:07:32 PM Jan 17th 2012
Well, okay, I'll refrain from changing it back until iTunes gets its act together (although I can't imagine them ignoring this for much longer). No sense in starting an edit war; as much as I may want to, it'd be unnecessarily distracting. That being said, we had agreed to iTunes, and once their act is together, it's what I'm holding this page to. I can handle the dirty work, beyond reviews and/or discussion pages, so...

As for virtues, there are a few that I can think of. Admittedly some of them are conjecture, but regardless, I'll stand by it:

  1. Considering it's the numbering that The Hub/Hasbro/iTunes is going with, it's also very likely it's the order they'll be rebroadcast in, as well as listed on any potential boxsets (one can dream) in. I'm keeping an eye on The Hub's weekday schedule to see how they handle rebroadcasts - at present they're still reairing Season One, so it'll be a matter of time before I can call this either way (as in, sometime in February). The fact they list the episodes with the production numbers on their site is a strong indicator of how they intend to handle reruns, however.
  2. It's more consistent with other Recap pages on TV Tropes, as cited very early on in the discussion.
  3. Going with #1, there may not be confusion with the airdate order now, but in a matter of months there likely will be. Hell, there already was some minor confusion when Hasbro supplied the episode listing to Eq D for the "Hearts and Hooves" marathon vote (Eq D's nicely skirted the issue by referring to the episodes strictly by name, otherwise). I would rather get the confusion out of the way sooner, rather than later (although I suppose there's some merit to waiting until people are focusing on later episodes, first, so it could be done more quietly).

Regardless, this is all a moot point until iTunes straightens up, and/or I can substantiate point 1 with evidence.

With regards to the direct rips: well, considering they didn't come from an official source, that sort of thing is to be expected. I mean, how many misattributed songs are floating out there on the Internet, due to similar situations? I'm taking those with a grain of salt, honestly.
Whatshisgame
12:00:10 AM Jan 18th 2012
edited by Whatshisgame
Unfortunately, reruns probably won't shed any light on the issue; since "Hearth's Warming Eve" is a holiday special, it'll probably be skipped in reruns.

(Also, correction: as previously stated, EqD's marathon episode list was sent from The Hub, not Hasbro.)

EDIT: All right! If you go to this page on Hasbro's official site, they've got "Family Appreciation Day" available to watch for free now, and if you click the MENU button (or pause the video then mouse over it), it's shown to be titled My Little Pony Friendship is Magic: Season 2 - Episode 11!

Since Hasbro is the most official of sources, and The Hub's order is the same as theirs, I'm going to go ahead and switch to the order they're both using. (EDIT 2: Finished switching.)

EDIT 3: Wait, not finished switching...how can the "Family Appreciation Day" reviews and "Hearth's Warming Eve" reviews be moved? They don't show up in the production-numbered pages' tabs, since they were made for the broadcast-numbered pages...
ShadowHog
01:08:37 PM Jan 21st 2012
I've moved the reviews and hollered at a mod to move the discussions. That should settle that.

For future reference, How to Move a Page is where I learned how to do the former.
gs
07:22:22 PM Jan 21st 2012
I don't care enough to undo things but the problem with the link is like most corporate sites it will probably disappear after awhile. And isn't a full list which. This is why for awhile we all liked iTunes, because it was the only thing that gave an actual list of all episodes at once.

Also noting to an above point the Hub already airs the episodes out of any order. Checking their schedule I for this Monday has The Last Roundup followed by Sonic Rainboom. Which I think underlines the basic point that the series really doesn't have an order of any substance. Its made to be watched any which way. We'd probably be truest to the series to strip out episode numbering from the recap pages so the numbering completely just an index list.

As I've said though I just don't care at this point at least enough to edit or such. Take it up again if we end up getting a season DVD set in different order after all.
ShadowHog
12:22:19 PM Feb 6th 2012
edited by ShadowHog
Just wanted to note that, as per the original agreement, if iTunes is still using airdate order come summer as it is presently, then barring some concrete, permanent proof to the contrary (although frankly, if it's taking this long to come, it ain't coming), we should probably go back to that.

I'm not going to bother doing anything right now - as gs pointed out earlier, the thing's been in flux too much, and considering "The Last Roundup" is missing altogether... it's just too premature.

Admittedly, this is very hard for me to admit. I still have a hard time seeing the airdate order so widely used, having wired myself over the past two months to prefer production. But... don't worry about me, let's just do what's right.
Whatshisgame
10:46:38 PM Feb 9th 2012
edited by Whatshisgame
The Hub's website still has these three thumbnails' filenames using production order, though, and iTunes (the only official source that lists the episodes in broadcast order) can be unreliable about Out of Order episodes' numbering (like with some SpongeBob SquarePants specials).

If that isn't enough, there's still some hope left: the episode clips on The Hub's site and (starting with Season 2) on Hasbro's mylittlepony YouTube channel are numbered, and while they've only been up to "The Mysterious Mare Do Well" for a while now, they'll probably upload more eventually.

EDIT: Another thing to keep an eye out for is that between the second and third seasons, The Hub's website will probably have random episodes available like they did between the first and second seasons. When and if they make "Family Appreciation Day", "Baby Cakes", and/or (less likely) "Hearth's Warming Eve" available again, they'll probably leave them numbered in production order.
GoldenSandslash
11:52:10 AM Mar 15th 2012
iTunes now has all 20 currently-aired episodes up, in airdate order. I vote we switch back to that.
ShadowHog
06:45:25 PM Apr 21st 2012
Incidentally, Netflix should be getting S2 sometime soon, since it just wrapped up (and the official word was "Season 2 will go up after it's done" - no specifics on when after, just "after").

I'm curious as to what order they're gonna use. If it's airdate order as well, then that pretty much solidifies that that's the order Hasbro intends to roll with, and we'd better change back. If it's production order... well, nothing'll really get solved, but at least I'll have something concrete to point to if the issue ever comes up elsewhere.
Whatshisgame
04:38:52 PM May 10th 2012
It's now up on Netflix, and according to a screenshot here, they're using production order. I just hope they don't go back and renumber them like iTunes did...
back to Recap/MylittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic

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