I think it would be extremely appropriate to include heteronormative truth in television examples in this, albeit partial truth in television, as men and women do in fact have very different physical characteristics typically and in fact have different mind altering hormones within their bodies
a complete and utter lack of examples really does stress a "political correctness gone mad" vibe
it's also not officially discredited either, it's just very pervasive in a manner that offends some people who could be described as the mirror image of the heteronormative crusader (on the flip side)
there is always that one example of that boy with the circumcision accident and suicide and depression however I don't think that's enough to go off of, and the studies about hormones and so on are just "out there" and I've stumbled across them over the years so I can't really cite a list of them
and the reason I stumbled across this? my favourite section is pretty much the real life/truth in television section
don't forget that even if its causes are societal, it's still existent as we're talking about a societal opinion to begin with
but seeing as a lot of what would appear to be the leanings of the editorial groups here, I'd just say I'd like to leave it to their judgement as to what gets put on here, I'm just providing a request and justification here
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also, when using the name "men are from mars, women are from venus" it's also an allusion to the roman deities, and the roman deity who's the standin for the greek ones, aphrodite and ares
as it stands they're very different, but in fact they apparently make one hell of a couple in the original greek incarnations, and it's no small secret, the different planets thing is merely an explanation of the relative difference between genders for the most part when compared to the difference between individuals of the same gender
I think the "two different worlds" thing is a bit overblown, and overemphasized, showing just how big a deal "a little difference in emphasis" can really make, while the deity aspect which should be obvious is completely missed
I also think the originator of the term knew full well about the notion of such huge differences not making too big a difference half the time anyways, and moreso that in fact
"Bonus points if
- This view of gender is presented as Truth In Television.
- This “truth” is presented as being bravely put forward in the face of Political Correctness Gone Mad, or other kinds of Straw Denialism"
is in fact a partisan attempt to discredit others who'd disagree without having to actually back their views up
the other 2 points below that I do find more acceptable to attempt to discredit, although considering the nature of stereotypes, aka tropes amongst other things, multiple stereotypes as nuance is in fact at times perfectly useful and justifiable, not just in this case, but in general
and just to drive home the point, the pantheons themselves are often exactly different stereotypes presented WITH nuance, not only as nuance
bastet/bubastis in egypt for instance, and I'm positive one of the greek deities underwent this change as well but I can't remember which one it was
keep in mind this is also supported by the fact that when you have different priorities, your focus shifts, and if your focus shifts then you're going to have quite a different world view than someone else if they didn't shift their focus, or if they shifted their focus in a different direction...
I think it says a lot that heroines are really famous for being heroines, the 50's was pretty fake in a lot of ways, but in this case it just far far far over exaggerated the natural tendencies of men and women
I mean, look at a place where this isn't in practice, and it's a subversion, let's go with another greek deity pairing, both athena and ares are gods of war
athena is the goddess of some aspects of war involving strategy and all that, and ares is about the brutality of it and carnage
if anything this makes the truth in television/real life section need to be even bigger, to include tomboys as a subversion as well as that other thing that I can't remember that's really close to tomboys
alright, I've written a thesis, I'm out have fun
Hasty generalizations much? Sure, let's postulate two rigid, overly broad categories and say "hormones did it", never mind that humans are 1) intelligent beings capable of reasonable judgement, biology notwithstanding, and 2) the sexual hormones aren't even nearly the greatest biological factor affecting human behavior.
Sure, you can make generalizations about most any subgroup of humanity. You could say that rich people are assholes, or that nine out of ten people you run into on the street will be idiots, or that men want to kill or screw everything in sight. And you will invariably meet people who do not meet these preconceptions — and many more than you might expect. Not because they're going against their "natural inclinations," but because generalizations break down when you're dealing with individuals.
Anyway, you wondered why there shouldn't be any Real Life examples here. Simple: not everyone believes that we do, or should, live in a totally heteronormative society, because such a thing severely limits what and who we as individuals are capable of being. The Mars and Venus Gender Contrast is only Truth in Television to the extent that it is still the accepted societal view of things. To say that it's actually true in reality is highly debatable, and there would be no point in doing so on this page other than to be contentious.
What is "reality" and how is "the societal view of things" excluded from reality? Society obviously really has a view of things. Before you make that statement you must explain.
And how is anything not affected by "the societal view of things"? Only feral children exist unaffected by society. Even adult hermits are affected by society.
Edited by jatay3
Okay, I'm going to have to agree a bit with the first poster - a little. The trope as played in media is greatly exaggerated from how it is in real life, though there is a little bit of truth to it. Now come on, bring your dakka and hit me.
What about Worldbuilding of a fictional social structure that has this simply as a setting irrelevant(or tangential) to the authors personal opinions on the matter. Can this be addressed? There are several imaginary cultures in which the men and women form separate castes overseeing differing occupations.
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Not sure what's meant here: "Wheel of Time" and "Earthsea" are already listed, and they have gender as a big part of the worldbuilding, including the way magic works in both worlds? Or do you mean inversions or subversions?
Queen of Filks
Cut this line from Harry Potter, as it's Discussion in the Main Page, and also contributes nothing.
- Within the Potterverse? And if so, is the implication in-universe that this kind of gender issue only applies during puberty?
- As far as Harry knows, certainly. <— this linked to Viewpoint Character, which does not exist.
The literature section mentions an unnamed self-help book from the 80's but I could find no such book having been published in the 80's. I assume what they where trying to refer to was the self-help book "Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus" by John Grey from 1992. Before I fix the example I wanted to see if there was indeed a separate book on the subject from the 80's or this was simply a mistake in dating the book.