Regarding Margaret's Holier Than Thou, Hypocrite and Hiding Behind Religion tropes listed: I took Holier Than Thou out since it did seem too "evil" for a character that clearly isn't evil or blindly self-righteous, but who undeniablyly is descending some sort of slippery slope towards religious fanaticism. Thus, I put Hypocrite back, since one can't deny that she does consider herself to be morally above Nucky, even though she isn't really, and uses his money to sustain her high moral standards (by donating it to the Church, which one could argue isn't exactly a good deed in and by itself). It's not a matter of disliking Margaret (I personally like her a lot as a character), it's just observing what she's become in the second season.
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She uses his money not to sustain her high moral standards, but to save her daughter. Margaret thinks that girl is punished by God for Margaret's sins.
Edited by Hoffmann
Azor Ahai
So, is Horvitz a historical character? I was googling, and couldn't find anything. I'm thinking that he might be created for the show, although presumably he's inspired by someone (wonder who).
Edited by Jordan Hodor Hide / Show Replies
Pretty sure he is fictional. Waxey is real however.
Edited by NaramSin
He seems to have aspects of Harry "Nig" Rosen
, a well-known Jewish gangster from Philadelphia with ties to AC, Rothstein, Lansky, and Luciano. I don't think Winter or the other writers have ever said who Manny is based on, though.
Azor Ahai
I removed the following:
- Idiot Ball: Carrying a pretty big one in "Two Boats and a Lifeguard", in which, after sneaking into the quarantine ward to see her polio-stricken daughter, she kisses her on the cheek before lying down in bed with her IN A ROOM FILLED WITH KIDS WHO HAVE A HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS DISEASE.
- She keeps it for "Georgia Peaches", using the money she's been hiding from Nucky to attempt to buy off her priest and use her faith to cure Emily's polio.
Both of those decisions are definitely not the brightest, but they are clearly motivated by her grief. And I kind of got the impression with the first one is that Margaret was basically acting like a Death Seeker.
More to the point, this is the definition of the Idiot Ball trope: "A moment where a character's stupidity fuels an episode, or a small plot line."
If a plot comes along where Margaret gets polio, then you could probably call the first instance an Idiot Ball moment, but until then, it's not an example. Her behavior with the priest is somewhat closer to the trope, but it's debatable whether this is particularly out-of-character for her.
I'd say the second season's Idiot Ball was held by Jimmy in his totally inexplicable refusal to pay Manny.
Hodor
I suppose that the current image is a bit deceiving, but as you can see here
◊, Pearl wasn't a redhead. So I'm taking down that.
Azor Ahai
Regarding The Unfavorite example with Nucky, I deleted some details, because the scene is confusing, and while it initially seems like Nucky's father really does love him, that's not the case.
As I understand it (I also missed it the first watch), Nucky's father thinks that Eli is the one in trouble and when he's talking to the actual Eli, thinks he's Nucky.
So, he is willing to go to effort to help Eli (who actually doesn't need it). That being said, the dad's not the greatest toward Eli either, because the reason he thinks that "Nucky" (Eli) should help "Eli" (Nucky) is because Eli is an incompetent who can't take care of himself.
Hodor
Azor Ahai
Is there a trope for what happened to the Commodore in 2X04? Not sure if Laser-Guided Karma would cover it. Possibly Reality Ensues too, since even if not being poisoned, he was still an elderly man, not a young one, even if he didn't realize it.
It's just interesting that what happened to him was a worse punishment than anything Nucky could devise.
Hodor Hide / Show Replies
There should be something somewhere about aggressors at the mercy of their former victims. Probably some parental trope to The Killer Becomes the Killed, Serial-Killer Killer and the like, I guess.
And what about Death By Sex? Except he didn't die. And there was no sex involved, only the apparent promise of it... hmmmm...
Geez, too bad the bastard didn't die. It would make things far easier!
Owen Slater's entry states that he has a back story that says that he's part of the IRA and that he's the type that scares other people from the IRA. I'm sorry if something slipped past my radar while watching or is their some supplementary material that I haven't seen yet? I kinda get that Nuck's Irish visitors are part of the IRA but was this ever explicitly stated? Or whats the biggest clue?
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I'll look for a link later. It was an interview of the actor linked to at Television Without Pity I think.
Edit- here's the article I was thinking of. I do see I kind of misinterpreted it though. When I first read it, I thought it was saying The Squad killed Irish people they saw as collaborators, but in reality, it's more like they were ruthless gurillas against the British. So, I'll rephrase that example.
Edit2- You know, I'm kind of wondering whether it's appropriate to call the guy evil, at least at this stage (ditto with the Ruthless Foreign Gangsters). I'm not sure whether killing people as a member of La Résistance makes you evil (I'm thinking no). Maybe he's more like Beware the Nice Ones or something?
Edited by Jordan Hodor
Yeah I wouldn't label his character as being evil, yet, as he hasn't done anything evil, I mean he does some violent work but not really criminal yet. Working in an illegal casino is evil but relatively lame to the rest of the cast.
Yeah I wouldn't label his character as being evil, yet, as he hasn't done anything evil, I mean he does some violent work but not really criminal yet. Working in an illegal casino is evil but relatively lame to the rest of the cast.
I don't think Lucy qualifies as a Femme Fatale - She's one of the few characters that I would consider harmless. Gillian might, however.
Azor Ahai
Thanks for all of the help expanding the character page. One question, Eddie is listed as a Kavorka Man- not that I don't believe it, but I can't remember a scene showing him getting lucky. Can someone refresh my memory on this?
Hodor Hide / Show Replies
He inmediately dragged the attention of a blonde protitute when he and Nucky walked inside Torrio's brothel in "Hold me in Paradise", and in a later episode was seen flirting with Babette (and Babette clearly enjoying it). Nucky, of course, cockblocked him in both occasions.
Ah, thanks. The second one at least rings a bell. Poor Eddie.
Edited by Jordan Hodor
The show is already in its 3rd season. It could be better to erase the spoilers for the two first seasons for sake of readability, and just leave a caution line at the start like in the Game Of Thrones page(s).
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