Johan Liebert vs. Light Yagami

The titular monster of Monster vs. the evil protagonist of Death Note

Common tropes with these two: Affably Evil, Lack of Empathy, Magnificent Bastard, and Manipulative Bastard.

In terms of evil and capability, Johan makes Light look like the small-time crooks that he kills.

I think I find Light a more enjoyable character though.

I wasn't particularly a fan of Light. His plans were simply too convoluted to seem legitimately smart.

It's always hard to write a character more intelligent than oneself, but I think Naoki Urasawa did a much better job, at least in part by not letting us see too much into Johan's head.

edited 17th Nov '10 5:02:55 PM by Desertopa

Well, to be fair, Light killed a lot more people than Johan. However, Monster was intended to be a far more realistic series. I don't understand why Light is compared to Johan so much. They are very different characters. Maybe their charisma? I suppose they have that in common, but I don't really see much else.

Johan wins easy, but I agree with Sporkaganza that Light is more fun. He just happens to have a whole lot more issues and flaws for Johan to exploit.

Oh, did I forgot to mention they're also the Big Bad of their series.

Light makes special efforts to adapt to whoever he is facing. If someone such as Johan, who never leaves any photography or documentation behind, who has commited such heinous crimes as he has...

I think it would have been interesting to have a sort of The Punisher MAX series for Light, where he gets to fight Complete Monster characters that are way, way more vile than him . He's more like an Inicdental Villain or an Eldritch Abomination: he'll kill you if you get in his way, and he doesn't care, but he's not actively sadistic. Johan on the other hand, does things purely For the Evulz. Not because it satisfies him in the least. Johan doesn't want to watch the world burn. He just wants to set it on fire.

Yup, an awesome arc could be made of Light doing some legwork finding out about Johan and killing him. Or dying trying. Maybe. Would light die for a cause he deems just enough? He never got faced with that in Death Note. A truly evil foe who could put up a fight.

Oooh yes. Johan could break Light's mind in so many ways. He wouldn't have to play a double game, wouldn't need to "win", to "capture him" lawfully. Hannibal Lecture after Hannibal Lecture, until Light does something so stupid he...

On the other hand, it might backfire and make Light more moral. It could go either way.

edited 4th Dec '10 5:51:21 AM by RawPower

That's actually an interesting scenario, Raw. I like the idea of it starting out with Light as an Anti-Hero Type V, who you only root for because Johan is way worse, but over time, Light goes through positive Character Development.

It'd be a real challenge for Light to fight him though. The whole "real name" thing makes it very difficult. Then again, if Misa were around...

I want to see L vs Johan. No magic books, just pure intellectual sparring.

Actually, Johan doesn't even have a real name, does he? Oh wait, that was the reveal at the end of the series. Yet fricking nearly nobody knew it.

It could be a three-way with L taking on the role of Runge.

Hey, this could actually work as a fic. Anyone up to the task?

Light kills Dr.Tenma for the crimes he didn't commit.

Johan, pissed off that the so called "God" killed one of the few people he genuinely liked, tracked Light (lets assume that Johan was a Wammy orphan at one time), and leaves him a message in form of mind raped Misa, who kept saying that the "Monster" has no name.

Yes! Yes, that could work. I'd do it but I haven't finished Monster, yet.

DB Sommer has created an excellent opening for this extraordinary duel of evil geniuses.

Can you say Bat Deduction?

Johan would win, likely. And that little story was brilliant.

I've just noticed something. Johan is immune to the Death Note.

Johan has no name.

His mother did give him a name after he was born, so he has one. It's just that even he doesn't know what it is until the very end of the story, and the readers don't learn it even then. No idea whether death notes have a rule for such a situation though.

Well, having Light Yagami instead of Dr. Tenma (or in parallel with him) looking to figure out Johan's origins, or, heck, even getting hold of a single photograph... could make for an interesting story. Heck, if Light and Tenma met, the discussion about Kira might be very interesting. Who knows, perhaps Tenma is capable of turning Light.

That's highly unlikely. Light is too drunk on power to ally with anyone, and sees everyone as a chess piece. Light's major flaw is that he doesn't know how much of a game he can win when there's an opponent of the same level

With Johan being nameless and at a higher level however....

Light still has some humanity compared to Johan, especially his early self. He wants to be boss, while Johan doesn't want to watch the world burn: he just wants to burn it.

Tenma could see through Johan. Tenma might be able to see through Light, and get through to him, and Light might respond.

How would Light learn about Johan in the first place, though?

It's been a while since I've read Monster, but if memory serves, Tenma only learned the truth about Johan because Johan flat-out told him that he had murdered Heinemann and the others, and then murdered a guy in front of Tenma. And he did so because he knew Tenma very well/was somewhat fixated on him and was sure that nobody would believe him anyway (and in fact he would become the prime suspect).

I don't think Johan would incriminate himself like that to just anyone (at least not without killing that person immediately afterward), and he especially wouldn't do that if he suspected he's dealing with someone who can kill him the way Kira does. And without such a confession, all Light would have to work with would be a bunch of crimes that would be next to impossible to link to Johan.

That's what would make it interesting. Kira and Johan's existences are an affront a challenge to each other.

Since I watched Death Note before Monster, I will of course say that I hate Light for how manipulative and twisted he is. However, from what I know of Monster, Johan is far worse than him. Johan doesn't have any real reason behind what he's doing other than to corrupt and kill as many people as he can. Not to mention he uses kids to do whatever he wants and is willing to have them killed as well. Yes, Light was very self-righteous and believed that he would create a better place by killing as many criminals as possible and controlling all crime. Yes, he did use his own form of manipulation to get what he wants and killed those whom he wanted to remove from his path to a "better world". However, from what I've seen, he hasn't crossed the line to where he's willing to kill kids. Plus, I'm more unnerved by how Johan isn't fazed by his twisted actions. Not once does he show remorse or any kind of feeling when he does all those horrible things. It's just scary how he can go about his life, knowing that he killed people or he made other people kill themselves/others. Johan is the very definition of a monster while Light is a psychopath.

Johann is an actually interesting charismatic villain who's fascinating in his depravity. Light is a petulant Smug Snake who's far less interesting.

All I've ever heard is Monster is an overrated mess and everyone should actually read the far superior 20th Century Boys.