Avatar (James Cameron film)

Tacitus is Made Of Win. For the EMPRAH EMPEROR!

For the EMPRAH EMPEROR!

My god, Soulstorm really did a number on Warhammer 40K, didn't it? I thought it was pretty bad, but damn...it's Youtube Poop material now...

WE ARE THE SPESS MEHREENS! WE ARE THE EMPRA'S FUREH!

(Facepalm)

If only we could get some of that Narm filled voice acting for the Avatar sequel (Maybe for that Death-Star-Eating Space Whale?), it'd be a movie to remember.

WE ARE THE NAAAVIEEEE! WE ARE PANDRA'S FUREH!

edited 11th Feb '10 6:08:41 AM by Echospeed

My God, What Have I Done?

Actually? I do know what I've done. I've started a viewpoint forum war. And it's fun. And I'm grinning like a madman. Seriously, all your replies are gold (even the Na'vi ones).

edited 11th Feb '10 8:01:58 AM by krrackknut

Cameron was discussing how, really, an object the size of the ship in Avatar, able to travel at near light speed, could easily destroy a planet if it didn't slow down before impact. They wouldn't even need a Death Star.

So Yeah.

Wait, you mean the movie works on the understanding of real world physics in space travel?

Well, now the "they wouldn't bother to bring orbital weapons!" sounds even more idiotic. They could just launch any moderately sized object at the planet and create a giant crater thanks to return velocity.

The problem is that this would probably do other bad things, like blast the moon to chunks that are difficult to mine, or destabilize the orbit and make it fall into the planet. Or flat out destroy the Unobtanium (whose duribility we really don't know).

Plus, lightspeed drives are probably really expensive; using one to deal with an uprising of pesky natives is likely not cost effective or explainable on a budget report. "Yes, Chairman, we needed to crash one of our three sublight drive ships because some aliens with knives and bows were causing trouble..."

edited 11th Feb '10 9:02:56 AM by Dracomicron

Why would you need a lightspeed drive? Correct me if my physics are off, but shouldn't any sufficiently large object be incredibly destructive based off of regular return velocity? All you would need is to create a large crater- we get those all the time on Earth without shooting the moon.

Not to derail the science geek discussion going on, but I'd like to mention that any "Human vs. Na'vi" debate is stacked too much in favor of the Na'vi, given that their entire existence is one big Author Appeal Author Tract.

—R.J.

Not to derail the science geek discussion going on, but I'd like to mention that any "Human vs. Na'vi" debate is stacked too much in favor of the Na'vi, given that their entire existence is one big Author Appeal Author Tract.

Pretty much. It'd be like an assassin trying to take out a Mary Sue: You'll either fail and get killed due to her awesomeness or be too taken by her stunning personality and looks to pull the trigger, eventually joining her.

Coincidentially, the movie shows variations of BOTH of those outcomes with relation to the Na'vi...

Why would you need a lightspeed drive? Correct me if my physics are off, but shouldn't any sufficiently large object be incredibly destructive based off of regular return velocity? All you would need is to create a large crater- we get those all the time on Earth without shooting the moon.

Your thinking of Rods From God aren't you? You better bring your own ammo, IIRC somebody in this topic mentioned it would inefficient to use asteroids as ammo for Rods From God.

Dracomicron wasn't thinking of that, he was thinking of this:

Cameron was discussing how, really, an object the size of the ship in Avatar, able to travel at near light speed, could easily destroy a planet if it didn't slow down before impact.

Thanks for clarifying that for me, Mediocre Ned.

Oh, OK. Never mind what I wrote. That means these rules more or less are near the hue of what most science fiction uses anyway.

Incidentally, do we have a trope about how no one with spaceships ever tries just ramming planetoids into oblivion with the awesome energy of mass times velocity squared?

edited 11th Feb '10 3:34:16 PM by SomeGuy

Incidentally, do we have a trope about how no one with spaceships ever tries just ramming planetoids into oblivion with the awesome energy of mass times velocity squared?

Probably falls under You Fail Physics Forever or Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale

With a bit of No Endor Holocaust thrown in.

—R.J.

When an object at lightspeed is weaponized it's called a relativistic kill weapon, IIRC.

If we don't have it, I suggest we call it Sir Isaac Newton Is The Deadliest SOB In Space

Hee. Mass Effect 2 for the goddamn win.

be too taken by her stunning personality and looks to pull the trigger, eventually joining her.

Love Can Bloom!

Love Can Bloom!

I'll see your "Love Can Bloom" and raise you a "Squad Broken"

@Charlatan: It doesn't need to be lightspeed to qualify for an RKV. Anything above 0.14c (~42000 Km/s) is sufficient to count.

(I can do math, really. )

edited 12th Feb '10 10:20:23 AM by Nohbody

With all the 'Na'Vi VS Humans' debate, I think is going too much on why each other characteristics suck or are cool, maybe the response that we could give to the Na'Vi is Yes, we are a fucked up species, and we have done fucked up things to each other and to our world, but does that mean our lives are worthless when compared to yours? You pray for the animals you hunt to eat, would you show the same compassion to us? We don't have a mother to guide us each step of the way, we were thrown alone into the world and we leave at the end the same way, we can only do so much with what we have and we have tried to do the best, and yes we have failed many times, but we keep trying, because we are alive and that's all we can do, continue to live, we have no right to take away what is yours the same way you have no right to pretend you are superior to us. And yes, we have failed, but that doesn't mean we'll give up on trying to give our families and our world the future they deserve, because we're survivors, because we have the right to exist. You are no better, and we are no worse.

I'm sorry, I had to include that last part from the original rant, because that's what really summarizes the whole conflict, they are no better, and we are not worse. Plus, I do believe Eywa is the big puppetmaster behind the whole 'we're so peaceful and perfect' civilization they have, and I think she's robbing them from their individuality.

With the sequel idea, they say they want to do a whle full blown war, which sounds logic since humans will be coming back and go all Curtis Lee May on their collective blue asses, but what I would really want them to do is visit another moon, to see another civilization, another with less purity sues if possible.

To be fair, IIRC the Na'vi never said they were better or anything like that. They were just getting tired of the humans who kept wanting to move away from their Really Big Tree and their obsession over those rocks.

—R.J.

Actually there was precious little interaction between the Navi and the humans at all. The entire Idiot Plot of the climax only happened because Jake completely failed to do his job and negotiate with them. No, the Navi aren't going to want television sets, but they might be willing to move somewhere else if it means the humans will just leave them alone. It's not like they possess material possessions that would make it a pain-in-the-ass to move somewhere else.

That's what I dislike the most about this movie is that when it gets right down to it, almost all of the conflict can be taken back to Jake with his Poor Communication Kills. It's not that negotiations broke down- it's that they never had negotiations in the first place!

Relic Captured :D The xenos can never comprehend where the strength of Man lies. We are strong because we endure. On our homeworld we possessed more endurance than any other species, bar none. On our world we did not live in an idyllic jungle like you. We braved the burning deserts, freezing wastes, and choking heights were you cannot live on your own world. We endured the scourges of disease and parasites that you have never known, and even though they sapped our strength we endured. For two hundred thousand years we have waged war on ourselves. Our brothers visited cruelties beyond your imagining upon us and we endured. In time we grew strong and covered our world in our machines. Now the air is all but unbreathable and still we endure. We are creating a world where we alone are fit to survive. Our world and civilization become harsher with each passing day, and so help me I am deathly proud of that fact. But our true endurance, the endurance that makes us so strong is that of our will. We will rise to meet any challenge, crush any enemy. Even when the stars themselves go dark we will endure. Where is my proof, you ask. You see it before you, we who stand on your world are that proof. We came here across the void on a journey where a single miscalculation guarantees death, where touching one grain of sand would destroy our ship, and yet we are here. We came here to a world where we cannot breath and every living thing seems to wish us dead. We came with nothing and were weakened by the travel itself, but we have built a city and endured. We have met every challenge that your world has offered us and endured it all. We will endure you. A strong species is breed through hardship. The strongest species is breed through hardships of its own making.

This is really entertaining; can someone on the Na’vi side come up with an eloquent speech that calls the pro human persona a genocidal douche?

@Dream Huntress: Please pardon the minor nitpick, but it's Curtis LeMay.

As for the whole "humans vs Na'vi" thing, I can't say I'd bother that much with trying to justify myself to them. I'm human, and as fucked up as humans can be, if it comes down to Na'vi vs us, I know exactly where I'm voting, and I'm not inclined to debate it with them any more than I would be inclined to debate with a tree I may cut down because I need it for resources, or need where it happens to be located.

(Tangentially, this is why I suspect that Unobtanium's uses aren't described in the movie. The anvil wouldn't have been quite as heavy if it was readily known that the Mineral MacGuffin was needed for the continuation of human civilization, as per the supplemental material. Can't have the humans appear in any way sympathetic or justified, nosiree Bob. )