Clean up: Gainaxing

Personally, I'm in favour of rewriting Jiggle Physics to cover any computer-generated jiggling, no matter what's doing it.

In fact, here's a draft of a rewrite of Jiggle Physics:

Jiggle Physics is the art and science of simulating the behaviour of non-rigid objects and materials in a computer. In this respect, it's a sister trope to Ragdoll Physics, which deals with more rigid structures.

The earliest uses of Jiggle Physics were not for simulating anatomy, but rather for hair and clothing. Of course, once more computing power was available, it was adapted to simulate soft anatomy, such as fat and the example which first comes to mind for most people when they hear the term, breasts.

Next time you play a game or watch an all-CGI movie or cartoon, take a look at what bounces and jiggles in reaction to physical stimuli. Whether it's the Badass Longcoat of the hero bouncing and flapping around as he runs, the gelatinous monster wobbling as it's pumped full of plasma fire, or Ms. Fanservice putting on a (perhaps unintentional) show, there's some pretty clever programming behind it.

For a more low-tech, more specific similar trope, see Gainaxing. Examples from sprite-based games should go there as they do not involve physics computations.

So, how's that?

I like that.

I think last time this came up, it was suggested that the existing article be left and a Super-Trope created for other things jiggling. But no one was interested in writing it, IIRC.

And ccoa, I believe "jiggle bones" are what make jiggle physics work. 3d models are rigged to a skeleton for movement control, a whole lot of code including what's called inverse kinematics goes into defining the way the skeleton moves in relation to all the other parts so the joints behave like human joints. One way to add jiggle then is to link another bone off the skeleton, configure it to just kinda bounce freely with movement and constrain it so it doesn't go wild.

@Roxor, feel free to use the Sandbox namespace. (You also shoud link No Flow in CGI).

Made a sandbox page:

Sandbox.Jiggle Physics

I didn't copy across any examples from the main Jiggle Physics page due to a lack of familiarity with them.

edited 23rd Nov '10 4:41:01 AM by Roxor

Badly needs to be renamed, as do all tropes named with obscure anime phrases.

I quite like your description Roxor. I'll do what I can to help with the examples.

I'm new to tv tropes so I feel a bit odd contributing this discussion, but I don't really see the point of contention here. Gainaxing is for cartoon jiggle, Jiggle Show is for live action jiggle, and Jiggle Physics is for video game jiggle. That division makes perfect sense to me. Is there a reason why we can't just shift the examples around and put a clarifying note on each page?

Also, I don't see any good reason why 2D pixelated sprite games with jiggle shouldn't fall under Jiggle Physics. In my mind tv tropes should emphasize, for lack of a better term, "ease of understanding" over technical correctness. Even if 2D games with jiggle don't technically count as Jiggle Physics, most people associate the term "jiggle physics" with video games in general. Placing an artificial barrier between 2D and 3D games makes the trope harder for a lay-person to understand, and lack of clarity is one of the root causes of trope decay in the first place.

So, either allow 2D pixelated sprite games on the Jiggle Physics page, or move them to the Gainaxing page and put a nice bold clarifying note on the Jiggle Physics page explaining exactly why 2D games don't count and redirecting confused tropers to the Gainaxing page. (And if the latter, edit the Gainaxing page to make it clear that only 3D examples go on the Jiggle Physics page. Right now it just says "video games go here". If 2D games don't belong on Jiggle Physics then the redirect on the Gainaxing page should say so.)

Is that better?

The new definition currently on Sandbox.Jiggle Physics puts things in a more general scientific context.

It's not 3D vs 2D, rather it's "uses physics computations to make the model react to physical stimuli" vs "doesn't use physics computations and just has the behaviour the same all the time".

If you have a fighting game which implements Jiggle Physics, then the reactions of the character getting hit will be different depending on where they get hit. A hit to the side will cause a different jiggle to one from head-on, and the force of the hit will affect the magnitude of the effect.

Early 3D games and CGI won't include Jiggle Physics, due to limited computational power at the time they were made. More recent productions (roughly the last ten years) have had enough computational power available to simulate the physics of non-rigid objects and thus, implement Jiggle Physics. CGI got it before games due to the fact that CGI animation for TV or film doesn't have to be rendered in real-time, and the developers can thus afford to use algorithms which at the time were too slow for real-time applications.

Do we really need two separate tropes for that? It seems like splitting hairs.

They aren't really that close though.

• Gainaxing: Animators lovingly animate the motion of female breasts for purposes of Fanservice.
• Jiggle Physics: Rendering realistic motion in computer graphics to non-ridged objects such as hair, fabric, and flesh.

edited 17th Jan '11 9:55:03 AM by shimaspawn

Mm...to be absolutely fair, when people talk about Jiggle Physics, they're usually referring to how each individual breast seems to have it's own physics engine, and moves way more than they would in real life. Not that the body moves and sways realistically.

Jiggle Physics does seem "bouncing breasts Fanservice, but in video games".

edited 17th Jan '11 9:59:47 AM by helterskelter

It is mostly used for breasts, but not exclusively. Breasts just happen to be a favourite among video gaming fan bases.

edited 17th Jan '11 10:02:21 AM by shimaspawn

Butts, Coats, Capes, Strings, Hair can all be Over Animated Jiggle Physics.

Shadow Hearts Covenant is huge example of those.

edited 17th Jan '11 10:39:24 AM by Raso

I think the reason for the decay and over-specialisation (ie. "bouncy breasts in Video Games") is a combination of All Men Are Perverts and Most Gamers Are Male.

I wouldn't mind the full Over Animated Jiggle Physics as a super trope to the Bouncy Ass And Titties Trope.

Jiggle Physics is suppose to about something lovingly crafted and Animated via physics engine so well that it stands out vs the other pieces in the scene.

edited 19th Jan '11 5:03:17 AM by Raso

Yep. This is probably the case. Plus they were some of the first soft tissue that people really tried to animate. They'd done a little with hair and capes moving side to side, but breasts were the inspiration for soft objects having realistic motion. That doesn't mean they're the only examples though. Just the ones that tend to stick in men's *cough* heads.

(From waaay back on the first page)

"I just always hated Gainaxing. It has such insanely extraordinary wick count, yet the name is so godawful."

The name is the term that's been in use for more than two decades, so...

On pure seniority, it beats every other term I know of to describe this or similar as a trope except maybe 'Bouncy bouncy bouncy', which is even worse.

Bumping this for more attention.

Should I copy the Sandbox.Jiggle Physics page contents to Main.Jiggle Physics and hope it gets some attention?

I think that really might be the best bet at this point. I've added what I can.

Alright, that's done. I've moved the Sandbox contents to the Main namespace page and cutlisted the sandbox version. I also updated the Laconic definition to match.

I guess that's Jiggle Physics done. Now, what about the original reason for creating this thread? Has Gainaxing been sufficiently cleaned up?

I guess we still have the question of whether Live Action should be included. Technically it seems to be a case of People Sit On Chairs.

If you have a woman with large breasts jogging/jumping/etc, most likely there is going to be bouncing. It is not going to be done deliberately, as apposed to animating extra.

edited 16th Mar '11 6:19:36 PM by pokedude10

Yeah, it's the fact that it's done deliberately. Maybe if the live action example is lampshaded. You know "Bouncy bouncy bouncy" or something along those lines. Like The Man Show's girls on trampolines.

I know this was brought up earlier but... The Gainaxing trope page still lists it a product of animation. Do we need to edit the description to fit live action, Or remove it altogether?