Why are there so many suicides from bullying, but not murders?

It seems like everyone is worried about bullied kids committing suicide, with a focus on LGBT youths. If bully related suicide is on the rise, where are the bully related murders? With all the hype about the deadly effects of bullying, the media leads me to believe that we are overdue for another Columbine.

Perhaps such an event is improbable in our post-Columbine school system in which kids get new metal detectors instead of books. Now, the poor bullied kids are committing suicide in the safety of their homes instead of dragging their bullies with them. This is a good thing, of course.

edited 17th Oct '10 3:02:19 PM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

You're asking why there aren't more school shootings?

1: They are rare

2: they are hard to do

3: Most bullied kids aren't the murdering type.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

A couple of reasons.

1. it's easier to kill yourself than it is someone else (there are more options, like nooses)

2. If there are multiple bullies, then the idea of killing them all becomes nigh impossible to implement.

3. The consequences of murder may simply result in further despair.

4. Most bullied types are not the kind to kill someone.

edited 17th Oct '10 4:17:18 PM by Acebrock

My troper wall

Also, bullying tends to make you feel like you are the problem, not them.

The qualities that prevent people from murdering others often overlap with those that allow them to become victims of bullies

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

Killing yourself tends to be a lot easier than taking somebody else's life, especially in the case of those being bullied. Pacifists, intellectuals or all around nice guys (like myself, to a point) would most likely be horrified at the prospect of such a thing, and would usually be Disproportionate Retribution in all but extreme cases of bullying.

Against all tyrants.

This.

To speculate for a bit, I think murdering retribution would mostly be done by people who used to be very happy, but feel that their happiness was unjustly taken from them by their oppressors. Thus, they take revenge on them to get it back. At the end of the rampage, they'll probably kill themselves because life just got even more complicated.

People who were always more on the quiet side, who are likely to make up the majority of bullying victims, will direct the aggression towards themselves, wonder why everybody hates them, what they did wrong, why is it me, why am I so dumb, why am I so ugly, why am I too weak to defend myself... Consequently, there's a sort of disconnect in the psyche and they end up considering themselves their own enemy... who must be stopped.

... I remember fantasizing about committing suidice off a skyscaper roof and leaving a note that will make my bully forever haunted with guilt. Nya ha ha ha.

Two major reasons:

1. Bullies tend to go after people with low self-esteem. These people are inherently more likely to commit suicide.
2. Murders are generally crimes of passion; the result of a single shock. By the time it's a major problem bullying has become the status quo, and can not incite the kind of rage usually necessary for murder.

Ah, that rings quite true as well... The first point especially seems gruesome, but true. There does seem to be a certain predatory instinct in people to go after the mentally frail...

I agree with all of the above posters, having been bullied myself. Fighting back is usually a spur of the moment thing, against a target of opportunity, and rarely permits the kind of planning required to commit murder. In general, though, bullied kids internalize their own lack of self-worth and while they may fantasize about committing horrible violence upon their tormentors, that very lack of self-esteem prevents them from acting upon it.

Events like Columbine require kids with a particular sociopathic mindset who externalize their anger rather than directing it at themselves, plus access to weapons.

edited 18th Oct '10 6:35:25 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Bull. It's a good thing to drag down and kill all the POS bullies instead, as THEY and the rest of their kind are responsible. Yes I am saying this, it is BETTER for bullied people to go on a rampage/spree killing than to take it down and die.

Shitsux. I'm suggesting that is part of it, but there's other ways to shoot up a school even with that "zero tolerance" bullshit that doesn't hit the 'threats'. Rampage on the outsides of the school drig lunch or entry/exit and herd them into a certain region (Working in teams). Or place bombs under the bleachers during 'spirit week', pfft.

"Take as many bulies down as you can. IT does not matter if you kill them all, the surviving bullies will have shat pants and other people can take your place and finish the job"

And committing suicide DOESNT?

EDIT: re OP I am starting to think it is mainstream media finally covering this stuff. People have committed suicide over internet things before just it wasn't covered as much.

edited 18th Oct '10 8:39:32 PM by BalloonFleet

WHASSUP....... ....with lolis!

This one is sorry to admit it, and understands that is not a good thing, but...despite general niceness, she is unable to feel even a slightest bit of sympathy towards bullies. Some murderers, depending of motive, she can sympathize with. Not bullies. If something bad happens with them in their life - they deserve it.

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

I don't believe I am actually writing this but bullies are humans too. Yeah, what they are doing is despicable, but once the hormones stop raging, many of them will turn into perfectly fine and nice adults. Yeah, some of them will only continue being bigger and bigger dicks, but that is in human nature

@Balloon Fleet: .......wat

edited 19th Oct '10 9:27:44 AM by Drakovicz

Has a compulsive editing and re-editing disorder.

Oh, I have no sympathy for bullies either. One of the most triumphant memories of my childhood is from sixth grade, when I finally got fed up enough with being pushed around that I smashed a kid over the head with my metal lunchbox. He never came back to school after that  ^*

. And I didn't get punished at all; in fact, I think the school staff may have secretly rooting for me. Man, how times have changed since then. Nowadays if I did that I'd get expelled.

@Drak: There is never an excuse for bullying. Ever. You do bullies and everyone else a favor by standing up to them. If some kid goes berserk and kills them, well, gee, what did they expect? Tell their parents to do a better job with their next brat.

edited 19th Oct '10 6:26:19 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

^^Funniest thing is that I know it. That they are normal people, that bullying is in fact a natural and logical extension of group behaviour and so on. But theoretical knowledge is one thing and feelings are another. Not to mention that while bullying is understandable, it is not excusable.

Really, it's a good thing that this one never had an access to weapon. I don't care for their lives, but mine would surely be ruined if I had.

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

"With all the hype about the deadly effects of bullying, the media leads me to believe that we are overdue for another Columbine. " - Grain

Except that Columbine wasn't about bullying.

Anyway, like others have said, bullies tend to go after the gentler, more emotionally frail victims. They tend to be less likely to strike back.

Also, suicide, while not exactly a very wise option either, would understandably seem like an easy way out of what's happening to them without harming others unwarrantedly in the process. Why would the bullies be harmed? They wouldn't have said victims to push around anymore. Why would others be harmed? Perhaps they miss the victim; well, that's what they get for failing to stop the bullying.

^^^ My post was mostly in response to Balloon Fleet, although I suspect I hope he/she was not fully serious.

I consider Bullying to be one of the few deeds that are inexcusable by their very nature. However it does not mean that killing the bullies is a valid response, even in Despair Event Horizon. Bullying is born out of stupidity, ignorance and low self-esteem as often as(or in addition to) genuine malice, and most of the bullies will mature out of it(well, hopefully)

Sure, some of them will become genuine, professional full-time dicks, but to generalize most of bullies into them, or to think to know how they will turn out is unwise.

Tl:dr Fight against bullying with all your might, but not to the point of reconstruction of Columbine massacre with modified hit list.

edited 19th Oct '10 10:14:05 AM by Drakovicz

Has a compulsive editing and re-editing disorder.

Not sure about low self-esteem. I remember seeing studies that show that bullies actually have quite a lot of self-confidence and tend to be well-adjusted and well-liked.

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

@Balloon Fleet

You scare me.

My troper wall

"Except that Columbine wasn't about bullying."

Why do you say that? I thought it was pretty clear to all except for denial-ridden school officials that the two shooters were motivated by having been bullied by the jocks.

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.

I don't like to necro threads, but I found this topic via a forum search for bullying (I'm researching it for my Script Frenzy project) and there's one major factor I think we left out:

SHAME.

As someone who's been bullied, gone through other things I won't talk about in my home life, and been given counseling for multiple parasuicides not too long ago (but I will say it was quite a while after I became a troper, for reference), here's one reason - besides having too much of a conscience - I never attempted to kill anyone:

If you kill the people who are abusing you, especially en masse, you'll be remembered as an irrational, Ax-Crazy humanity-hating cock who is much better off dead or in jail (whichever one you end up in), you'll erase any sympathy 99% of everyone would've had for you, and you'll shame your family for generations.

Cho Seung Hui's family is still getting hate mail. Eric Kliebold's mother said recently that she'll probably Never Live It Down.

However, merely killing yourself is much more "honorable." You'll be remembered as a person with genuine troubles who needed help instead. People might even come to see you as better than you really were.

Your family won't want to erase you from the tree, your friends won't be afraid to admit they liked you when you were alive, and people will remember you as an actual person instead of some cartoonish, Trigger-Happy bastard.

edited 20th Apr '11 7:08:41 PM by Wheezy

Project progress: The Adroan (102k words), The Pigeon Witch, (40k). Done but in need of reworking: Yume Hime, (50k)

"Bull. It's a good thing to drag down and kill all the POS bullies instead, as THEY and the rest of their kind are responsible. Yes I am saying this, it is BETTER for bullied people to go on a rampage/spree killing than to take it down and die."

Let's play it your way - it's your own damn fault for not having the balls to stand up to a guy when he calls you a faggot and throws spitballs at your back while you stutter through your oral report. How's that sound? Inhumane enough?

edited 20th Apr '11 7:17:23 PM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

The Columbine shooters were bullies themselves and bragged about picking on "fags" and the new kids at their school. Their shooting wasn't at all trying to target "jocks" (or Christians or minorities) and as it turns out they were basically aiming to take down their whole school (but failed at making proper bombs). To call it a "bully murder" would be ignorant. Dave Cullen's book Columbine recently did a lot to dispel the myth about the bullying they faced.

That being said...the reason why there are suicides from bullying is because depression is already semi-common in adolescents and this depression can be aggravated by bullying. Anyone can kill themselves given a severe enough depression. Murder, otoh, requires a certain level of aggression and psychopathic personality type that would be more common in a bullying-type than a bullied-type (not that there isn't crossover).

Bullshit right back at you. How many school shootings ended with only the specific bullies being the ones killed? Spree killings always end up getting innocent bystanders killed or injured as a result as well. The life of a bully is not worth the life of multiple innocents.

Barkey, you're right. But victims of severe bullying that only murder their bullies have my sympathy.

"Had Mother Nature been a real parent, she would have been in jail for child abuse and murder." -Nick Bostrom