During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Empowered: When do we see 'Jette's father's monstrosity (actually, ditto for the other two)? P.S. This seems like a great deal 
edited 28th Mar '14 12:17:16 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'd like to suggest a new example: Boss Yoshida from the 1991 Dolph Lundgren / Brandon Lee action movie Showdown in Little Tokyo.
Who is Yoshida? What has he done?
Yoshida is a Yakuza mob boss in Los Angeles who is asserting his rule over the organized crime in the city. He's introduced crushing a man inside his car to take over his business. He follows this up by decapitating a girl mid-coitus in front of his men for trying to warn the victim in advance. It's pointed out that the girl was actually already fed so much drugs by Yoshida that she'd be dead in minutes anyway, cutting off her head with a katana served no purpose beyond cruelty. When he was still a lowly assassin in Japan, he's revealed to have hacked up the young hero's parents in front of the boy and tried to kill him next before he was stopped. He also kidnaps and rapes a singer who works for him, forces her to watch the tape he shot of her beheaded friend and murders one of his own men for failing to stop the heroes from rescuing her. Trying to kill the heroes is usually not a qualifier, but even there he stands out as he variously tries to torture the two cops to death with electrocution and mash them to bits in a car grinder.
Freudian Excuse or redeeming traits?
None. He only ever proves himself to be cruel and murderous for the sake of it and never indicates he gives a damn about any of his men who die in droves during the fight scenes. On the contrary, he seems to be willing to turn on any of them should they fail him.
Verdict?
None of the other Yakuza in the film stand out from him and all his crimes are onscreen (the murder of the hero's parents is shown in flashback). The movie itself has some Mighty Whitey Unfortunate Implications (as well as some rather inexplicable Ho Yay), but the villain is pretty darn nasty.
edited 28th Mar '14 1:27:49 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
@ Lightysnake, I'm not entirely sure on Sir John, he did state that he wanted his son Lawrence to join him, and he only tries to kill him when he refuses and tries to stop him.
jjj
Without any remorse or regret, you might note, and he carelessly also gives Lawrence a way to kill himself earlier.
The man's jumped up on ego and drunk on power. He has no issue that he murdered Lawrence's brother, who he says he liked better than Lawrence
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Say, who do we want as the image for Lit, Film, TV, and Video Games?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Scorpio killer works fine as the page image for Film, I think. Don't have any ideas for the others yet.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
"Gives Lawrence a way to kill himself"? I don't remember that part.
Are you sure he meant to kill Ben? It's been at least a couple years since I last saw the film, but the way I recall it, he got drunk and accidently knocked Sihng out and was not able to lock himself up that night.
edited 28th Mar '14 2:14:42 PM by bobg
jjj
His reaction over it is to giggle about it later. You're finding redeeming qualities where there are none. He cares more about 'his kingdom,' not about Lawrence as a person.
And after Ben died, he still carried on with not getting locked up and had decided "say this's awesome"
You really can't have a page picture for Literature considering that the work is mostly words with illustrations that vary wildly from artist to artist. And shouldn't there be a page picture for Western Animation as well?
edited 28th Mar '14 2:23:05 PM by despoa
Well we got Scorpio for Film, do we want to change that?
Also since there enough votes against the Controller, I think I will withdraw my proposal for him.
Also I saw a picture that might work for Western Animation, its from Extreme Ghostbusters with the Grundel grabbing Kylie and putting his hand over her mouth with an evil grin on his face.
I am just using this picture as an example, I think we would need to ask permission or get a similar picture of our own. Maybe one without the Disney logo in the way.
edited 28th Mar '14 2:36:33 PM by TheOverlord
Doesn't even like this username
The current image of Scorpio works for Film, IMHO. Maybe Ozai for WA? Also, back from Winter Soldier (significant spoilers for it follow). There's a good argument to be made for Pierce, given the massive death toll that was prevented at literally the last second. Unless I missed something and it was von Strucker's plan all along? Though open discussion should probably wait until the US release a week from now.
edited 28th Mar '14 2:33:16 PM by LordXavius
Maybe a picture of Ozai either burning the Earth Kingdom or the one where he is about to burn about burn Zuko's face? We need a picture that doesn't need a lot of explanation in terms of context, which might be tricky with Ozai.
Doesn't even like this username
Not bad, could work with the right caption.
For a caption, would his "TODAY, THE WORLD SHALL END IN FIRE!" Badass Boast work?
It has been a while since I saw the film, so maybe it's just that I don't quite remember everything.
The way I remember things, he was bitten by a feral boy with werewolfism in his human form who happened to look like Gollum. After he transformed and killed his wife, he had Lawrence sent to the asylum to have the memories tortured out of him. I do not remember if he ever showed remorse for his wife's death. He had Singh lock him up every full moon after that (since he had removed the powder from the silver bullets, this was more likely out of fear that he would be caught as opposed to the safety of the villagers). One night, he was having an argument with Ben, he got drunk and knocked Singh out which led to him transforming outside the cage and killing Ben. I remember him showing some remorse for Ben's death but still deciding that it was fun to go on a rampage, which is why he killed Singh and decided to transform outside from than on. He had Lawrence locked up again and paid him a visit telling him that when he got out he would like for his son to join him. Lawrence escaped and tried to stop him so he decided to try to kill him.
jjj
That's a good caption.
Doesn't even like this username
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, right. Forgot Scorpio. And forgot Western Animation.
edited 28th Mar '14 3:18:23 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Sorry to go off-topic for the moment, but I'm also going to add Lighty's Talbot entry to the Edit Requests thread if no one objects.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Just a heads-up that I'm going to get an entry for Harry from Pride cooking in just a bit.
edited 28th Mar '14 4:38:49 PM by sanfranman91
Together, we are one.
Lizzid people!
So, how does the writeup on Damien Thorn look?
Here's an entry I wrote for Harry. Pride is an... interesting movie to watch. Still, let me know what I could do to improve the entry:
- The Big Bad of the 2004 BBC film Pride is Harry, an alpha male lion who leads a rogue pride known as “The Wanderers”. The beginning of the movie establishes him as a ruthless psychopath who leads attacks on other prides (including one belonging to the film’s heroine Suki) and murders lionesses such as Fleck’s mother. Harry knows that Suki is a vegetarian lion who abhors hunting other animals and exploits this when Suki is fully grown and leaves her pride. After Suki gives birth to cubs fathered by Harry’s wingman Dark, Harry crosses the line by killing and eating all but one of her cubs. Harry uses that sole surviving cub (Rory) to blackmail Suki, threatening that he will make Rory “go missing” if she does not hunt for The Wanderers. As if that wasn’t enough, he plans out another attack on Suki’s pride and states that he wants to kill everyone within her pride. When Harry fights Suki’s brother, he finds Rory hiding and attacks him. At that moment, Dark realizes what the psychopath did to his cubs and shoves him off the cliff to his death.
edited 28th Mar '14 6:04:58 PM by sanfranman91
Together, we are one.
Lizzid people!
Good entry, though I don't think you really need to mention the Karmic Death part.
Done.
By the way, to give you context on the interesting approach of Pride, here's an official clip from the BBC's Youtube page. Word of caution: the clip's actually the part where Harry meets his end, so it spoils the movie's ending.
edited 28th Mar '14 5:36:40 PM by sanfranman91
Together, we are one.
@ 23358: Beat me to it. Beautiful write-up on Ragyo; I'll get her entry added on the Edit Requests thread ASAP.
edited 28th Mar '14 12:09:49 PM by sanfranman91
Together, we are one.