During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
miraculous: Is that so for Maestro? This has him originally not from 616. Though this could be like Purple Man, where even though Alias is MAX, it's still 616.
Lizzid people!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
two Darkseids.
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Well Its complicated. Basically normal Hulk went to this universe where Maestro lives and defeated him and he then went back only for some experiments on him and caused hallucinations of Maestro which caused normal Hulk to gain a split personality: Maestro.
You know what, just put him in the other continiuites as this is a bit to complicated to explain.
edited 11th Dec '17 6:02:36 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The monster page image description for The Vampire Diaries has a spoiler that changes the shape of the show (Cami's death). Can it be whited out? I can see other spoilers have been Whited out.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You're not kidding. Overlord, I believe you proposed Comic!Maestro. What say you?
Pointing out the spoiler, or removing the picture and description.
Goku Black
Yeah Maestro is a weird and unique example as he's technically both a 616 and other continuity villain at the same time.
Thats not even all of it as his spirit would later go to 616 and attempted to use the destroyer on the world as well as use Deomonic Possesion on Hulk.
I'm torn as he would eventually become a 616 villain like completely but started out as one from a different continiuty. Maybe put in both.
edited 11th Dec '17 6:50:58 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lizzid people!
Alright, here's Dr. Gallo:
- Pathology (2008): Dr. Jake Gallo is a medical doctor in training who is the leader of a group of students in the pathology program Ted "Teddy" Grey enrolls in. Under the guise of vigilante killings, Gallo holds a game in which each student attempts to commit the perfect, undetectable murder. After nonchalantly killing a man with a beer bottle laced with a mixture of ethanol and nitric acid, Gallo tries to justify this by saying that trash like the aforementioned man deserved to die. Obsessed with committing the perfect murder, Gallo murders three prostitutes in a savage fashion whilst giddily laughing. Upon discovering that his girlfriend Juliette Bath was sleeping with Teddy, Gallo angrily kills her and remorselessly prepares her body for examination. As a final act of pure spite for Teddy, Gallo kills his Teddy's fiancee — Gwen Williamson — and mockingly declares his victory to Teddy's face.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Drafts please.
Goku Black
So what do you wanna do with Maestro considering he Became a 616 villain in subsequent returns which no other CM in Marvel did as with purple man, they just had it happen in both universes rather than have him cross over to one.
On God, I read wiki and he recently came back to life thanks to Secret Wars 2015 and returned to the new combined earth whatever it's called.
That and honestly since Maestro is one of Hulk's contentders for Arch-Enemy just put him in 616.
edited 11th Dec '17 7:23:55 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Comic continuity is just mind-boggling at times 
And that's not even getting into the REALLY weird stuff like The Thanos Imperative, which takes place in 616, but Mar-Vell himself is from another universe,
edited 11th Dec '17 7:33:57 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Here a request from me. The last World Of Warcraft raid started two weeks ago tomorrow and I plan on doing an effort post on Greater-Scope Villain Sargeras. Unfortunately, I'm going to be ridiculously busy with work for a few days and wouldn't get a chance to do it until Friday. Can I just do it one day early today and go ahead and get it out of the way?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
I plan to do an EP for a movie called Space Truckers soon as well as one for Geostorm. Keep everybody up to date once I’ve looked into both.
to the novels' version of Crane. How does that version of him compare to Heath Ledger's Joker?
edited 11th Dec '17 8:18:49 AM by futuremoviewriter
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Fine with me.
WoW is ending, really?
...wow.
Last as in 'the latest'...there's another already going.
Go ahead, Lore.
Goku Black
Go ahead lore.
Mar vell should be an easier choice as well he comes from an alt universe, all of the evil deeds that make him count happened in 616. So like Maestro put him there.
edited 11th Dec '17 9:02:12 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
In love with an Uptown Girl
Both Darkseids
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, here's the alternate universes for Marvel (interestingly, some MAX baddies, such as Jaekelsson, are indeed 616; others, such as Mar-Vell and Marquis of Death, aren't 616 themselves but get involved in 616. My head hurts ).
- Anita Blake: 97534
- Ultimate Skull: 1610
- Crossover Skull: 3839
- Deadpool Pulp: 10310
- Kurassus: 30826
- Rudi Gagarin: 200111
- Otto Von Doom: 311
- John Herod: 928
- Supreme Power duo: 31916
- What If? trio
Goku Black
Alright lets do this : Marquis, Mar vell & Maestro : all come from alternate universes but made a jump to 616 hence since they went there, we put there entries in the 616 section.
The others can be sorted quite easily BUT you'll need to check which MAX villains are 616 as they'll go there instead of too the Marvel Max section. Oh God, now my head hurts as well.
edited 11th Dec '17 10:55:24 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
In love with an Uptown Girl
Hey, has anyone dibs Ready Player One yet?
edited 11th Dec '17 11:07:37 AM by Vampireandthen
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Lizzid people!
Another manga suggestion, this time being Me and the Devil Blues. This manga is based on the song of the same name. Much like the urban legend, Robert Johnson was a man who wanted to play the blues. However, he found that he was abysmal with it. One day, he goes to the Crossroads; it is there, he makes his fated Deal with the Devil. After that encounter with Beelzebub, RJ could play exceptionally....though he developed a double hand from it. He soon finds himself being accompanied by an enigmatic man named Ike who vehemently denies that he's Satan, as well as Clyde Barrow, a self-proclaimed gangster who is pretty trigger happy. An alternate history biopic.
Who is he?
Stanley O. McDonald is the head of a small town that is seemingly normal....if not for the fact that if you were to be caught drinking it's an automatic death sentence. Yes, McDonald had set a rule in place ten years ago that stated that if one were to as much as take a swig of the "devil water" they'd be executed, no questions asked. So, that's bad, but it gets worse. He had a brother-in-law who was supposedly murdered by RJ. And thus, Stanley is intending on having RJ lynched come Sunday. Whilst he preaches against the drinking of alcohol, he actually backs up a bootlegger in a piece of land called the Carrion Valley. In order to keep any of the citizens from asking questions, he made up lies stating that the land was cursed. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
What has he done?
After escaping from some farmers after his failed attempts at robbing a wealthy plantation owner dry, Clyde arrives to a bar, requesting a cola. It is there that he meets McDonald. McDonald]] takes a liking to him, and he invites him to his house for dinner. Stanley is usually accompanied by a young boy named Toby. Toby is actually not his grandson. He's his "little companion" as [=McDonald likes to put it. They had initially met when Toby's family began working for McDonald. Since then they had become close. Maybe a little too close....
Anyway, Clyde unsurprisingly tries to rob McDonald whilst he's sleeping. He discovers a secret passage way that leads to a room filled with cribs and candy. Clyde also discovers a closet full of dolls. The dolls seem too lifelike to be just porcelain, and you'd be right. Upon further inspection, Clyde realizes that the dolls were made out of real body parts, namely the eyes, hair, and fingernails. Yes; Stanley lures children to his home after initially getting close with them, kills them, and uses their body parts to make dolls. Clyde also finds dolls laying in the cribs with names embedded on the side. One name in particular catches Clyde by alarm: Toby McDonald. Clyde also realizes that the baby doll in the crib was undone, meaning that McDonald was intending on using Toby to complete his "masterpiece."
Clyde - pondering about what to do - breaks into the sheriff's office, and bashes the corrupt guards with a broken beer bottle. He then retrieves RJ, and they attempt to escape the town. McDonald realizes that Clyde discovered the room, and in an attempt to save face, orders some of the rural farmers to go on a manhunt for the two men. He also sends his three dogs with the farmers. While waiting for any results, McDonald meets up with a family, and sets his eyes on the parents' son. McDonald suggests that he and the family have a get together at his house sometime, and smirking to himself whilst pondering what their young son would taste like. And that's the end. Clyde and RJ are on the run, McDonald is in the clear, and there doesn't seem to be a continuation in the works.
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?
As I have stated, the main reason as to why he wanted RJ lynched was because McDonald believed that he murdered his brother-in-law which would imply that he had some care for him. However, the first time he explained what happened to his brother-in-law, he treats it almost as if it's a matter of fact. If anything, he seemingly implies that there isn't really a reason to hang RJ other than "just because." When Clyde and RJ escape from the town, McDonald grinds his teeth angrily saying how the former killed his brother-in-law while the latter humiliated him. Once again, from his incensed rant it would seem that he did truly care for his brother-in-law, but after that little rant, he doesn't mention him again. If anything, it seems that the primary reason as to why McDonald is enraged is because with Clyde finding his hidden room full of dolls, he's afraid that he'll get exposed.
As for Toby, he is clearly fond of the young boy, with some scenes being where he tries to shield him from some of the more extreme violence, but considering his true intentions for the boy, his relationship seems like one more out of lust than anything superficial. When McDonald spots another boy during the manhunt, he completely drops Toby at that point, giving this other boy his full attention.
Heinous standard
I'll say this: the setting is not the most happy. For one, RJ sold his soul to the Devil, which cost him the lives of his wife and unborn child. Then you have Clyde who in this alternate history is a violent man who bashes several corrupt farmers to near death with a broken bottle, and yet he still clearly pines for his beloved Bonnie. And then you have a black bartender whose daughter was raped by a group of white men, who also cut out one of his eyes out of spite.
With that said, I feel that McDonald draws a unique niche. He is a prolific child murderer who not only murders the children he's come to form relationships with, but he also makes dolls out of their bodies so that he could keep that bit of "pureness" with him at all time. There's also the law he drafted wherein anyone caught drinking alcohol would be executed. Given how it's been in place for ten years, there's no telling how many people most likely were executed under this man's watch.
Conclusion
I will say that McDonald is truly a depraved Dirty Old Man who abuses what power he has over the town, but I can see his rant about his brother-in-law getting murdered could prohibit his chances.
edited 11th Dec '17 11:43:54 AM by AustinDR
In love with an Uptown Girl
Abstain on Stanley. Piece of trash, no question, but that damned brother-in-law bit.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
Alright, so...an effortpost from me now! I'm working on Everville, btw, and will update with more from our man Kissoon:
What's The Work?
Bad Guys is a Korean drama. The plot? A Serial Killer murders the police commissioner's son after a string of nasty murders. Goo-Tak, a hardened cop is given permission to create a particularly special squad that know how killers think: Wong-Chul, a gangster and heavy hitter, Tae-Soo, a skilled hitman who mysteriously turned himself in, and Jung-Moon a youthful genius who also happens to be a psychopath and the youngest Serial Killer in Korean history....Goo-Tak, with a young woman detective Mi-Young, has to keep this group together and offers them sentence reductions based on jobs...now, there are some who stand out...
Who is the Villain?
The killer of the first two episodes is a hardware shop owner who is driven by a desire to surpass the record of '23' of the top serial killer in Korean history: to kill 24 young women in a public fashion. Now, our team of Bad Guys, or 'the mad dogs' as Goo-Tak derisively calls them. Now, when the series opens, Commissioner Nam's son is stalking after the killer, who gets the drop on him and fatally stabs him.
Now, as we see through flashbacks and crime scenes photos, the killer would gain entry through the homes via a job as a locksmith. Once there, he would bash them in the skull with his wrench and as a trophy, take a bit of blood via a syringe to preserve as a trophy. Thing was, he eventually 'evolved' beyond that sort of sloppiness, instead using the knife as a 'hollowed out' sort of syringe to collect the blood. The police didn't realize it was the same killer because he switched to using a knife after the first 9 victims, for the next 14...thing was? He was a bit sloppy. After breaking into one apartment to kill a woman and her young daughter, the woman, Sung-Jeon, woke up and managed to hold him off while her daughter got help. The killer fled.
The second time, he killed a woman in an apartment, then went for her sister, who tried to fake being asleep to hold him off. The killer whispered that he "had to beat him" to the woman and mocked that he would get 'two' from this outing, before bashing her head...he thought he killed her, but she survived, with a disfiguring scar. Jung-Moon, the paragon of empathy that he is, calmly informs her she was 'lucky' on an interview, to her anger.
Sung-Jeon, hitman Tae-Soo's Morality Pet, and the sister are soon targeted by the killer again who wants to go back and clean up his mistakes. He catches and kills the disfigured woman and the police...proceed to arrest a low-level gangster for the crime. Woong-Chul, Tae-Soo and Jung-Moon realize instantly that this will enrage the killer who can't stand any credit taken by someone else. He proceeds to target Sung-Jeon...he proceeds to attack and stab Woong-Chul with the element of surprise (nonfatally, to his error), before he stalks Sung-Jeon again. Bashing her in the head, Sung-Jeon begs for her life, only for the killer to sneer everyone always begs when he's going to kill them anyways. He withdraws the knife and pushes her against a car...only for Tae-Soo to be reflected behind him. Tae-Soo proceeds to beat the man into a bloody pulp, until the killer is begging for his life. Only Goo-Tak (who, as a Magnificent Bastard arranged for the false arrest and used Sung-Jeon as bait) intervening saves the killer's life and has him taken into prison. Only one of the confirmed 23 victims isn't his...leaving him forever "second best" and thrown in prison for good, but the Bad Guy team is declared obsolete and thrown back in prison...until episode 3.
so, heinous standard?
Okay, obviously, given the premise...Now, the Big Bad, revealed to be masterminding a nasty conspiracy and framed an innocent for the crimes is nasty, but that was 15 victims and change with the conspiracy...he doesn't count because he loved his wife and his motive was targeting the victims of killers to force them to experience the pain of their families dying after his wife was killed.
This killer? Has the highest attempted bodycount of a single guy, is operating with no resources and is...kind of sloppy, to boot. Even without one villain, he kills at least 22 people, tries to kill more and just wants to be the best" killer in the country's history.
Oh, I should probably mention our heroes...Woong-Chul and Tae-soo are hardened criminals, but neither they nor Jung-Moon (who was actually framed by the aforementioned Big Bad via hypnosis...he is a psychopath, and can't feel emotions like normal people, but he never killed anyone) gave a bodycount like him..Tae-Soo's worst crime is that he murdered Sung-Jeon's husband out of jealousy, something he feels immense guilt for and all of them have standards and morals...so no issue here.
Mitigating Quality?
Zilch.
Conclusion?
One of the series' two keepers. Will address the next soon.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Both Darkseids.
Why so serious?