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I'm going to agree that no one counts in Kubo. The villain's evil plan is to reunite with Kubo and become a family again. A very warped and distorted version of a family, but a family nonetheless. The Moon King calls Earth a living hell at one point, so he wants to get Kubo away from that by any means necessary.

Also, Kubo was a very good movie and is definitely worth the watch. It's surprisingly somber for a family film. The only other Laika film I've seen was Paranorman, so I know that the studio isn't afraid of going to darker places.

edited 1st Sep '16 9:57:48 PM by chasemaddigan

I'll agree with others that no one from Kubo counts. Also, guys, it's been two weeks. You can ditch the spoiler tags. No need for them.

On the subject of Imperium, seeing as I'm the one who reserved the main discussion, I can say with utmost confdence that nobody counts.

There are numerous "villains" in the film, but, except for the main antagonist, they all seem worse than they actually are.

The psychotic skinhead Roy is ultimately just a Jerkass bully, the Aryan leader and Hitler worshipping Andrew is ultimately just an "All Bark No Bite" thug, and the Hate-mongering racist radio personality Dallas Wolf is ultimately a pathetic basement dweller who lives with his mother and only spouts racist garbage to make a quick buck.

Then there's the main villain, Gerry, who is the only who commits actually heinous crimes in the film (Supposedly causing a highway accident to steal dangerous chemicals, then planning to use said chemicals to bomb a highly-populated area), but even he doesn't count for being genuinely Affably Evil, having loved ones, and believing in his cause, however ridiculous it may be, in a Well-Intentioned Extremist kind of way.

In conclusion, Imperium takes the pretty realistic approach when dealing with Neo-Nazis and the like: Showing that they are ultimately either stupid, pathetic, or just lashing out at people in their angst, and, on the off-chance that one is dangerous, the chances of them actually committing a particularly heinous crime is slim-to-none.

edited 1st Sep '16 10:53:25 PM by Ravok

Here is a possible write up for Nefarious:

• [1]: Dr. Nefarious is a darker character than in the original series. Starting off as Drek's engineer, Nefarious built the Deplanetizer that allowed Drek to destroy planets and use their land masses to build his new world. After the pair destroy Novalis and five other planets, Nefarious betrays Drek and takes over his operation, intending to destroy Umbris, a volatile planet which could set off a chain reaction and destroy the entire solar system. When he hears that Ratchet and Clank are thwarting the attempt to destroy Umbris, Nefarious goes to stop them himself and ensure Umbris's destruction, despite knowing he'd die too.

edited 2nd Sep '16 12:25:26 AM by bobg

Sort of a shame. "Dallas Wolf" is a kickass name.

Okay the scores now 8 , 3 and 2 abstain for Mulgarath.

So unless there are any more votes I'll probably post the write up sometime today or tomorrow (its proving more difficult than I expected).

• Ravok: A WIE Neo-Nazi???
• bobg:
  • Does Nefarious have enough votes?
  • If he does, please add that to the drafts page.
  • Should it go to both Western Animation AND Video Games?

edited 2nd Sep '16 3:14:10 AM by ACW

Well, does Nefarious actually qualify in the companion game to the 2016 movie? There could be a factor there disqualifying him that's not in the movie. The effortpost was solely for the film version.

Holy crap, I see Lighty's reserved discussion for most of the upcoming DC and Marvel movies

It's okay Scraggle; I already asked about the game. I am sure, we would already be told if something was disqualifying.

edited 2nd Sep '16 5:34:47 AM by emperors

And FriedWarthog got the other half. So I suppose there's no need to decide on who's gonna talk about the superhero films for the next four years.

On that note, anyone mind if I snag the Underworld: Blood Wars slot?

Go for it.

I actually have an effort post for Kubo then I'm planning to post later today when I get on my computer, please save your votes until then

@rosewood47 You beat me to the punch on Freddy Krueger.

@ACW I get out of work at 6:00 EST. I have three episodes left to revisit of the eighth and final season of Castle. If I can get my final edits on the write up in by about 8:30 EST, can it still be included with this week's batch?

That should be fine.

Actually how's 9:00 EST just to be on the safe side?

Eh, whatever. I'll work on the batch tomorrow regardless.

I'd agree that Nefarious goes under both video games and western animation (so do monsters from cgi films go under western animation instead of films if made in America then? Looks like its the case with How to Train Your Dragon 2 or Boxtrolls)

Regardless of the time, it's done tonight. Once I have it approved for the drafts and I've added it there, you're gonna clean it up before it's officially added?

Yeah. I'll add it with this week's batch (along with the dozen I currently have; Nefarious; and Mulgarath if it gets done <and yes, CGI is Western Animation>). There's also Monster.Ripper Street.

Ok, here's my effort post:

Fist of all, SPOILERS for a gorgeous movie that anyone who considers themselves in any way a fan of animation should see.

Background:

Kubo and the Two Strings is about a boy named Kubo who has the ability to magically control origami and paper-like objects through music, and who was the son of a famous samurai named Hanzo and an unnamed woman who I’ll call Kubo’s Mother.

Interestingly, almost all of the characters in this movie are related- Kubo’s Mother was the third daughter of a spirit called the Moon King, and was sent to kill Hanzo in the past but instead fell in love with him, and later they had a baby together. This enraged the Moon King, who, along with The Sisters, fought with Hanzo and seemingly killed him, and took the left eye of the baby Kubo. Kubo’s Mother escaped and lived outside a village with Kubo, while apparently suffering from some form of dementia from a head wound, and told Kubo to never go out at night or his aunts and grandfather would be able to see him and come for his other eye.

Well, Kubo does end up staying out after dark and is attacked by The Sisters, who destroy the village. His mother defends him, costing her life, but uses the last of her magic to send Kubo away and make his monkey-shaped charm come alive to defend him. Kubo later meets up with a beetle-man, named Beetle, and the three of them follow the direction of a small origami samurai to find the three pieces of Hanzo’s samurai armor, which can give the wearer the ability to defend themselves against the Moon King and the Sisters. It turns out that Monkey and Beetle are, in fact, Kubo’s parents- Monkey being possessed by his mother’s spirit and Beetle being magically transformed by the Moon King and the Sisters and losing his memory as punishment.

Who is he?

Raiden the Moon King is Kubo’s grandfather and apparently some sort of spirit of the moon.

What does he do?

In the past, he had sent his daughters to kill many strong warriors for fear that they would find the armor and be able to defeat him, though this was all offscreen. It’s possible that the temple that Hanzo was at had other samurai who were killed, as there appears to be armor lying all over the place, but if that did happen, it was offscreen and not mentioned. As I said before, the Moon King considered Kubo’s Mother a traitor and tried to kill her and blind Kubo, along with turning Hanzo into his Beetle form and taking his memory. The reason the Moon King wants to blind Kubo is essentially to strip him of his humanity- his mother was able to empathize with a mortal man because she looked into his eyes, or at least that’s how the Moon King feels. The Sisters do most of the dirty work in the film at their father’s behest, and happily try to kill Beetle and Monkey, something one of them actually succeeds at. At the end of the film, the Moon King shows himself, and after Kubo rejects him, shows his more unhinged side and tries to kill Kubo in the form of a large monster, and tries to attack him even when he’s surrounded by the surviving villagers.

Are there any mitigating factors?

Well, I don’t think he cares about his daughters really, for all that he talks about his family, he mostly just seems to deeply hate the inhabitants of the Earth, and tried to kill his daughter when she betrayed him. He also doesn’t seem broken up over the deaths of his other two daughters. I think that it’s all about control with him. Why else would he be trying to force Kubo to join him by stealing his eyes?

Upon his defeat, he isn’t killed by Kubo, but instead made mortal and loses all of his memory, becoming a normal old man. This is a clear case of Heel–Face Brainwashing and therefore isn’t disqualifying.

Conclusion:

I’m not sure whether or not he qualifies. He seems evil enough, sure, but I don’t think he necessarily passes the heinous standard. His worst actions, sending his daughters to kill many warriors, are offscreen (and limited to basically a single line of dialogue), as is his possible killing of samurai at Hanzo’s temple (which is conjecture on my part anyway). His trying to attack Kubo while he’s surrounded by villagers could possibly push him over the edge, though.

Who are they?

The Sisters are Kubo’s evil aunts, who are creepy spirit twins.

What do they do?

I pretty much already outlined what they do. They try to steal Kubo’s eye, they kill Kubo’s Mother, they succeed in killing Monkey and Beetle, they had killed many warriors in the past at their father’s behest, they destroy a whole village, killing an unknown amount of people, and they seem to get enjoyment out of the things they do. The destruction of the village is completely onscreen, and we see villagers getting engulfed by their dark energy.

Are there mitigating factors?

One of them says that they looked up to Kubo’s Mother before her betrayal, but they consider her a traitor and are fine with trying to kill her in the past and succeeding twice in the present. They did seem to take her betrayal personally, though.

When one of them is killed, the other one doesn’t mention it later in the film, so I’m not sure that we can say that they care for each other based on what happens in the film.

They seem loyal to their father, and are for the most part acting under his orders, which may or may not be mitigating.

Conclusion:

The Sisters have a far greater onscreen presence than their father. After thinking it over, I think I’m more comfortable with them qualifying than the Moon King, not that he necessarily doesn’t count. They’re the primary evil force for most of the movie, and their destruction of the village is the worst action taken in the film. They seem to enjoy everything they do, and don’t at all seem like drones simply carrying out their father’s wishes.

Hopefully I at least have all of my facts straight, I keep leaning one way or another on the Moon King, since he is a truly despicable parent who is basically responsible for everything. However, the Sisters are evil in their own right, which makes it more difficult for me to blame the Moon King for everything they do.

edited 2nd Sep '16 10:28:28 AM by Camberf

Anyone from Kubo.

So like everyone else said, no one from Kubo counts.

I haven't actually gotten the game yet, but toonyloon says they did play the reboot, and they believe he qualifies there as well.

As I mentioned earlier, the Moon King views Earth as a living hell, and the reason he wants to take Kubo away from that is because of how awful life is on it. He's from a place where there's no such thing as suffering and death. I think there's a case of Blue-and-Orange Morality going on, but Kubo's mother was able to move past that with her own free will. There's also the fact that he tries to kill Kubo when he refuses to go with him, so that could be a disqualifying factor.

Kubo's Aunts do commit the most heinous actions in the film, and I don't remember them caring as much as their father about reuniting with Kubo. I don't even remember how the surviving sister reacted to the other's death. I could see them counting more than their father.

I'm leaning towards for the Moon King and abstaining on Kubo's Aunts. While I could see why they could count, I think they view mortality as a living hell. They want to free Kubo from such a painful and limited existence, but they can't seem to grasp the Kubo doesn't want that. Good intentions, twisted perspective, heinous actions.

Moon King and the Sisters