Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I thought about the others saying that the quotes should be burned. I can understand why. Taking into account all the criterias for the CM, the quotes should demonstrate that the character is the most heinous character played seriously with no redeeming or altruistic qualities. The problem is that most of the quotes don't fit all of those criterias.

For example, in Anime section, Ali's quote (and arguably Ragyo's) is the only one which fits the criterias. Indeed :

• Heinoussness ? Worst person possible = Most heinous
• Played seriously ? You're basically acknowledging your own heinoussness, so it kinda fits.
• Redeeming qualities ? Worst person possible = No redeeming qualities.

Any thoughts on the quotes that I had listed?

Lighty: How come?

To me, Damien's quote should be out and keep the Xykon's quotes. But of course, going strictly by the criterias, all of those quotes are out.

edited 26th Jun '16 11:40:57 AM by MiraiYuji

I disagree on the two Xykon quotes; for the first one, it fits all of the "criteria" for a quote.

Why so ?

Well, you have the worst person acknowledging their heinousness in the quotation, it's played seriously, there's obviously no redeeming qualities about the quote, etc. So, I feel confident on the first quote. Either that, or I'm perfectly fine with it being transferred to Eviler than Thou.

As for the second quote, I feel that the quote perfectly describes what type of person Xykon is while keeping the general idea that he is irredeemable.

edited 26th Jun '16 11:56:02 AM by AustinDR

Thing is : 1)being more heinous than someone else doesn't mean that you're the most heinous.

2)ordering to murder your brother doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have any redeeming or altruistic qualities (though it's kind of difficult to find one who doesn't). Besides, it's not precised on the context.

As for the second quote, Redcloak is basically stating that Xykon, under his nice guy facade, is an evil person. Nothing which implies that he's more heinous than anyone else or utterly irredeemable.

edited 26th Jun '16 12:02:43 PM by MiraiYuji

That's why I suggested just moving that quote to Eviler than Thou as an alternative. OK, so I just removed the Damien quote, and also the other quotes that I had listed if no one minds.

edited 26th Jun '16 12:06:35 PM by AustinDR

Admittedly, looking at the criterias, there shouldn't be that many quotes on the page, even though we've decided which quotes to keep by vote.

Personally, I don't mind the quotes you've cut. Besides, even if people had second thoughts on it, we'd just have to copy the quotes from history and re-post them.

edited 26th Jun '16 12:13:38 PM by MiraiYuji

I don't mind some of the cut quotes; I'm leaning towards keeping the second Dahlia one. What's wrong with Ozai's and Steele's? Not enough context?

Yes; I felt that there wasn't enough context. For Steele and Ozai, we know what their plans are (Ozai burning his son's then banishing him, and Steele attempting to sabotage the mission respectively), but it doesn't explain what they intend to do. It's kind of like how there was one quote from Cape Fear that was used: we know that Cady intended to get revenge on Bowden, but the quote doesn't reflect on what he was planning to do.

edited 26th Jun '16 12:29:23 PM by AustinDR

I see. I still lean kinda toward's keeping the Judge's quote about Dahlia.

This exchange actually demonstrates another reason I think the quotes should be torched - we spend more time discussing what quotes should stay or not, while letting actual entries fall to the wayside.

I disagree with that sentiment somewhat. But, yes, I agree that there are too many quotes- some that have nothing to do with the CM trope, fit with other tropes, etc.

After giving it some thought, I'll Valak.

edited 26th Jun '16 12:58:03 PM by AustinDR

I'm with Largo. I was for keeping some quotes, and I do agree there still should be a quote page, but there have been pages of discussion distracting from relevant topics and I've yet to see one problematic quote actually be cut. This conversation is going nowhere.

Okay, I'm going to try and make a write-up for Guldan.

• WarCraft: Gul'dan is an ambitious Shadowmoon orc warlock who controls the Orcish Horde and channels a dark magic called the fel. Driven by his lust for power, Gul'dan corrupted, and ultimately destroyed, Draenor, the homeworld of the orcs. In order to find a new realm to rule, Gul'dan used the fel to open a portal to the planet Azeroth, using the souls of captive draenei as fuel for his magic. Leading a small band of orcs, Gul'dan sent them to capture humans and sacrifice them to bring the rest of the Horde through the portal. After Durotan, the chief of the Frostwolf clan, tries to unite his clan and the humans, Gul'dan has his clan massacred. Upon being challenged to a mak'gora, a traditional orcish duel, by Durotan, Gul'dan violates the rules of the mak'gora and uses his fel magic to drain the life out of Durotan, killing him. He proceeds to execute several dissenting members of the Horde and corrupts his warchief, Blackhand, by infusing him with fel magic. He then sacrifices a portion of the human captives to reopen the portal, allowing the Horde to enter Azeroth. When Lothar kills Blackhand in a mak'gora duel, Gul'dan tries to murder Lothar, only relenting out of fear of losing the Horde.

Are Koba and Gul'dan now the only CGI characters from live action movies to qualify so far?

That's kind of a strange question.

Now that you mention it, I'm surprised at how rare they are.

There's also The Fallen.

5x Not sure if Gul'dan is confirmed to be a Shadowmoon orc in the movie (remember that they changed to Doomhammer from Blackrock to Frostwolf). And this summary seems too powerpoint trivia. Just a list of his deeds without an overarching theme of who Gul'dan is.

edited 26th Jun '16 5:22:55 PM by Shadao

I'll do a writeup for Gul'Dan soon.

Eh, honestly, at this point, I could go either way on the quotes. Like, a full-on purge seems a mite extreme, but at the same time, not too much progress is being made overall in actually cutting some. Maybe cut all of them, but before that, have everyone pick out a couple they like, then suggest them here after the cutting the ones currently on the page? Just a thought.

Also, I've realized that I may have been a bit....intense arguing for Valak yesterday, and would like to apologize for my behavior if it offended anyone. I had been up most of the night before binging Breaking Bad for the first time, which is addictive as meth, and thus, was somewhat in a foul mood when discussing Valak, so again, apologies.

Anywho, here's my write-ups.

• Thru the Moebius Strip: King Tor is the sociopathic king of Raphicca and the Big Bad of the film. Once a general of the Raphiccan army, Tor became jealous of the current ruler of Raphicca, his own brother, and murdered him to take his position as king. Ruling his planet with an iron fist, Tor's selfishness drove numerous Raphiccans to rebel against him, leading to an ongoing war between the rebels and Tor. When the high priestess of the Raphiccans tries to hide a powerful crystal from Tor, he casually murders her, proclaiming her a traitor, then tortures one of her disciples to force another to harness the power of the crystal for him. After trying to kill the young Prince Ragis to secure his position as king, Tor leads a full-on assault on Ragis and the rebel army, wantonly firing his powerful cannons at enemies and his own soldiers alike, killing dozens of people. Flying into a rage after his soldiers turn against him due to his cruelty, Tor plans to open a dimensional rift and unleash nightmarish entities onto Raphicca to crush all in their path just to spite his enemies, and is beaten while trying to kill a defenseless human boy. Power hungry to the point of psychopathy, Tor stuck out as particularly vile in this family-oriented film.

• The Conjuring: Valak is a demonic entity who sticks out to the Warrens as one of the most wicked beings they have ever encountered. The perpetrator of the Amityville massacre, an event that entailed Valak possessing a young man to slaughter his entire family of 6, most of which were children, Valak mentally assaulted Lorraine Warren when she tried to investigate the killings, and continued to haunt her months afterwards. Beginning to haunt the Hodgson family for it's own amusement, Valak took control of the spirit of an innocent man, refusing to let him move on into the afterlife, and forces him to terrorize the Hodgsons for it. After trying numerous times to kill various members of the Hodgson family, Valak tries to force the youngest girl, Janet, to impale herself in front of her entire family, then tries to force Lorraine to watch as it attempts the same on her husband. Valak was a sadistic and petty demon who took great joy out of tormenting innocents, and wanted nothing more than to kill and terrorize all it could.

Sorry, force of habit. Fixed. And yeah, I really didn't know what to do since there wasn't a work page for the sequel.

edited 26th Jun '16 6:57:15 PM by Ravok

Two bits on Valak's writeup. First, is it really necessary to capitalize every instance of "it" in the writeup? Is that how it's done in-universe, or...? Secondly, it seems like you're listing it for the original Conjuring; since the sequel doesn't have a work page, I recommend making a new tree for the two movies so both can have separate entries. Valak can go under Bathsheba. Let me...

• The Conjuring: This horror series presents us with this duo:
  • The Conjuring: Bathsheba is a truly vile ghost. While most ghosts are benevolent, or simply sad beings, Bathsheba is a sadistic satanist who shows her devotion to Satan by, having failed to sacrifice her own newborn son before her suicide, possesses mothers to murder their own children before forcing their own suicides. Bathsheba torments the most recent family to inhabit her lands until the paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren arrive. When Bathsheba's attempts to drive them off fail, she heads to their house and frees a demon trapped in a doll so the two can murder the Warren's young daughter. When she succeeds in distracting them, Bathsheba possesses the original family's mother to try to murder her own children and tries to drag the mother to death with her while being exorcised.
  • The Conjuring 2: Valak is a demonic entity who sticks out to the Warrens as one of the most wicked beings they have ever encountered. The perpetrator of the Amityville massacre, an event that entailed Valak possessing a young man to slaughter his entire family of 6, most of which were children, Valak mentally assaulted Lorraine Warren when she tried to investigate the killings, and continued to haunt her months afterwards. Beginning to haunt the Hodgson family for its own amusement, Valak took control of the spirit of an innocent man, refusing to let him move on into the afterlife, and forces him to terrorize the Hodgsons. After trying numerous times to kill various members of the Hodgson family, Valak tries to force the youngest girl, Janet, to impale herself in front of her entire family, then tries to force Lorraine to watch as it attempts the same on her husband. Valak was a sadistic and petty demon who took great joy out of tormenting innocents, and wanted nothing more than to kill and terrorize all it could.

edited 26th Jun '16 7:07:23 PM by Scraggle