Hazbin Hotel (Amazon Prime)

Found an analysis of Hazbin's brilliant tone

Angel's crime family would be interesting to explore in proper so long as it isn't just a copy of Moxxie's since there's the obvious question of how did Angel go from them to Valentino, as the latter died over 20 years after the former. I wonder if some of Angel's backstory was given to Moxxie

Finally a video which really gets what I love about this show. It's a dark and raunchy animated show that's also about hope and people overcoming a depressing world. I think a comment on that video summed it up nicely: (paraphrasing) "It's a show about deconstructing Disney musicals, and then reconstructing them". Hazbin Hotel asks the question, 'What if a Disney musical was in a dark, sex and violence-filled world, and yet the hope, and character growth, and whimsy and joy of a Disney musical still remained?'. It's this contrast that makes the show so effective.

Edited by king15 on Mar 24th 2024 at 11:49:15 AM

It's the Invincible of musicals, if you will.

But truthfully, it is nice to see a video essay that isn't criticizing the first season's pacing (either from a fan or a hater standpoint) or going "LE SEX JOKES!?!?!?!? ARE LE BAD?!!?!?!?" for once.

Edited by ReginaldOgron5 on Mar 24th 2024 at 4:51:48 AM

I feel like the Reconstruction trope is very rare but works wonders when done properly. This and Invincible are living proof of that.

I have seen two reviews make a note about the swearing and it's the most hypocritical BS ever, based on the reviewer.

I suppose part of it is people who only watch the first 3 episodes and therefore think that the character of Angel Dust is nothing but sex jokes and harassment (though of course that would have to ignore the Valentino scenes in episode 2). Honestly, episode 4 is so amazing in that it actually acknowledges the sex jokes and then shows that it is a 'Masquerade' that Angel Dust puts on. It's a great way of creating raunchy humour and then tying that raunchy humour into the character of Angel. I also like the nuance that the masquerade isn't a complete 180, the rest of the show shows that Angel is a person who enjoys making sex-jokes and being somewhat provocative, it's just the extreme version of that shown in the pilot and start of the show is a coping mechanism.

The show is great at this in general. Sir Pentious is a Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain and that is actually the key to his redemption. Husk is a grumpy alcoholic and several jokes are made about that, but the terrible situation he's in is ultimately played for drama and the alcoholism is a key component. Charlie is overly-optimistic and overly-joyful and, as much as those are played for laughs, they are also used to illustrate key character failings (such as when she confronts Valentino) and key character strengths (the fact that, ultimately, the hotel works). All of these characters have aspects of them played for laughs which are then played for drama due to being key parts of their character. I think what a lot of people don't realise is that Hazbin Hotel is a dramedy, not a comedy, and frankly leans more dramatic as it goes on.

One reviewer said that the swearing clashes with the art style, and that just makes me think that they think the only way adult animations can be animated is in the pseudo Family Guy style that has frankly become overused.

Edited by king15 on Mar 25th 2024 at 2:46:34 PM

More than that, I think the show's most rabid haters fundamentally misunderstand the show's humor. Never in any Hellaverse media have I ever felt like the punchline of a joke was "DO YOU GET, GUYS? THE JOKE IS THAT THEY SAID "CUM"!!! XD ROFLCOPTER!", if it was then both shows would have next to no following and be even more of a punching bag than they already are on par with the body of work of Roger Black And Waco O Guin or Drawn Together.

And maybe all it comes down to is "Thing I like said "fuck"=good writing, thing I dislike said "fuck"=bad writing" and that's why the universe as a whole is so divisive, who knows.

Edited by ReginaldOgron5 on Mar 25th 2024 at 11:38:15 AM

The Grand Unified Theory of “Fuck”.

I’m willing to bet that a good chunk of the haters haven’t actually watched a single episode of any Hellaverse show, but are just part of Viv’s irrational bully mob who are still hellbent on trying to harass her off of the Internet for dumb reasons.

The Hellaverse has its issues, yes, but so many of the complaints about both shows (Not all, but more than there should be) feel like bad-faith arguments that are indeed rooted in Double Standards.

Edited by MagmaTeaMerry on Mar 25th 2024 at 8:29:08 PM

It's like how the The Wolf of Wall Street was nominated for several Oscars, despite being one of the films in history with the most uses of 'Fuck' (adding up to over 500), along with the inclusion of nudity and drug use. I'm not criticising that film, it's great, but it does demonstrate something of a double standard when it comes to animation compared to live-action films.

I mean, I know the simple explanation is that different people reviewed each project, and there certainly were people who criticized Wolf of Wall Street for having too many swears, but I still think it's a bit of a double-standard. Just because something uses a load of swears doesn't mean its bad. Not that it's wrong to be put off by something having loads of swears, obviously, quality is subjective, it's just that there seems to be an idea that the swearing in Hazbin is bad specifically because it's animated.

Edited by king15 on Mar 25th 2024 at 7:29:37 PM

I think it's bias against Western cartoons with a little bit of sexism thrown in.

Definitely a lot of sexism and homophobia, since Viv is a successful woman who has a lot of queer characters in her works.

Obviously it doesn't mean you can't criticize her works, but it means a lot of criticisms can be unnecessarily virulent.

I have seen people accuse her shows of being sexist and racist. In fact, those seem to be the biggest sticking points for most of the haters I've seen.

A lot of those people could very well be bigots themselves, though. It's not uncommon for right-wing trolls to pretend to care about these things in order to sic a mob on people they don't like.

Actually, regardless of how many of her critics there are who have that as a genuine concern and who are just haters who want people riled up so they can feel "justified" in bullying Viv off the Internet for good, that's just the feeling I can't shake off: Regardless of the genuine criticisms a lot of people may have with Viv herself or the Hellaverse, I sincerely doubt she'd get even a fraction of the frothing-at-the-mouth hatred she gets had she been a straight white guy. It really feels like the main reason her hate mob exists is because she's a queer Hispanic(?) woman who makes things on the Internet; The only thing that'd make certain crowds hate her even more is if she was also trans.

... But perhaps we should stop it there, lest we go too far off-topic or I end up starting a conversation that I'll deeply regret later.

Edited by MagmaTeaMerry on Mar 25th 2024 at 7:43:03 PM

No, that's pretty spot-on. Straight white men tend to get a pass in...well, everything. That's just how systemic privilege works.

Edited by M84 on Mar 26th 2024 at 2:47:11 AM

The cringiest suggestion I ever said for this show was for DarkMatter2525 to somehow voice as a character.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Mar 27th 2024 at 5:09:04 PM

On a different topic, I wonder how all the sinners reacted when they first discovered their new forms when arriving in Hell.

Cherry Bomb no doubt have to take some time to adjust to her whole world no longer having any depth-perception anymore due to only having one eye now as an example.

How do you think Sinners react to their new anatomy and appearances and how long do you think it took to get used to them?

Edited by Trainbarrel on Mar 27th 2024 at 3:32:46 PM

Poor Angel Dust. It must be strange reacting to having 2 extra sets of (retractable) arms. And, according to word of god, a retractable penis. That must take a lot of getting used to.

Edited by king15 on Mar 27th 2024 at 2:31:47 PM

What really crazy is the fact that some of the sinners have been in their demons forms longer then they were alive, and may not even remember how to be human anymore. I remember one bit of fanart of Sir Pentious asking Angel Dust how legs work.

Are you kidding? Angel is the type of guy to be like "Four arms? Frickin' schweet! Now I can jerk off four guys at once!"

In all seriousness, given that we saw Lyle Lipton's legs turn into a Bigweld sphere or whatchamacallit like thirty seconds after he died and he had no problems, maybe it's not really a thing most Sinners have an issue with.

x3 Okay, honestly didn't know about that second part... is that why he doesn't wear pants that often? That he's constantly... "shirtcocking" I think its called?

Edited by RebelFalcon on Mar 27th 2024 at 3:51:13 PM

Granted, as with all "Viv said this on a charity stream five years ago" esoterica, the canonicity of Angel having a retractible penis is currently in the dubiously purgatorical realm of "canon until otherwise stated".

I mean, we have seen him wearing basically nothing and he didn't appear to have a bulge of any kind, but...

It's like how Stolas is meant to have a cloaca, but, if so, what's that bulge under the bed sheets at the start of Harvest Moon?

(This is starting to get weird).

Edit: ok, looking back, that might just be his legs.

Edited by king15 on Mar 27th 2024 at 9:34:52 AM

Stop! If we go any further we'll start delving into "measuring Luigi's girth" levels of insanity!

...Maybe Stolas was wearing a strap-on? No, that doesn't make any sense, he's a a sub. OK, ENOUGH!