I am pretty sure we used to have something like this in the past.
That said, this is really more appropriate for Wiki Talk; I'll move the thread there.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
(she/her)
I think it’s a good idea and would help a lot of people figure out the wiki and forums.
Edited by MacronNotes on May 9th 2021 at 11:01:25 AM
Macron's notes
Very Spooky
Same; I’d definitely support this if it could be added.
back lol
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(she/her)
I know this is a 2 year necro but I was going to make my own thread and drafts before I re-discovered this one
An auto welcome PM has been requested on wishlist and the forums in the past and it looks we might be able to set one up soon! I was going to try to start my own draft but ~SilverCrown had a pretty good base on the OP so I think I'll try build off of it. I added a link to Welcome to TV Tropes, bullets for trope and work creation, and a separate section for other useful areas of the site.
- If you want to start on the wiki side:
- Start here to read the general rules before editing your first article. We understand that the temptation can be overwhelming and jumping in feet-first can be an exhilarating experience, but from our perspective, many newbies need a friendly tap on the shoulder when they start because they aren't used to our customs.
- Go to this page to read about the Staff (people who you can approach for problems, greetings, casual banter, and the like) and the admins (The Powers That Be who run this place).
- Be especially wary of Conversation in the Main Page, Edit Wars, complaining, Thread Mode, writing in the first person, and misusing examples. These are some of the most common mistakes that are made, both by newbies and oldies alike.
- If you would like to create a work page on the wiki, be sure to read over How to Create a Work Page before you get started.
- If you would like to propose a new trope or article on the wiki on the Trope Launch Pad (primarily for trope creation but accepts other types of articles), make sure to read the instructions on TLP Guidelines thoroughly.
- If you would like to contribute to our Video
examples section, please read Video Guidelines before jumping in.
- If you want to start on the Forum side:
- Read this thread to learn about the Forum Rules! This will save you, and us, a lot of time.
- Read this page to learn what goes where, since threads in the wrong section may be moved by a moderator.
- Get involved! Don't spend too much time stressing over the Rules and the customs of this place. Pick something that interests you and jump in. You'll be an active contributor in no time at all.
- Read this thread to learn about the Forum Rules!
- Resources & other areas of the site:
- Ask The Tropers: This is where you report problems on the wiki, other users, and ask general questions that aren't covered by other areas of the site.
- Query Wishlist: A place to suggest certain features you want to be added to the site.
- Query Bugs: You can report bugs in this forum.
- Trope Finder: A query board you can use to help locate tropes.
- You Know That Show: This is where you can for help with finding works you don't know the name of.
For a more extensive guide to the wiki, feel free to read Welcome to TV Tropes. Don't be afraid to ask for help in Ask The Tropers. We don't bite! (Much.)
We're glad you're here, [[troper]]. Please enjoy your stay at TV Tropes!
Edited by Twiddler on May 26th 2023 at 4:42:10 AM
Macron's notes
Hmm. From what I've heard on Wikipedia, a message that long is liable to be not read. I think we might want to make a guess about what information new accounts are most likely to need, and strip it down to these points.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Mm, I see your point Sep, but even in the worst case scenario if new tropers refuse to read the PM, it would at least allow us to say "we already gave you information to help" just like we do with notifiers. At least from my perspective (as one of the tropers who pitched the idea ages ago), if they read it through all the way, great! And if not, that's not really our fault.
That said, it's also ambiguous as to what information a new troper will "need". What counts as necessary first-timer info, and what doesn't? I also like the longer post because it covers the bases.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Perhaps we can suggest them to skip to the parts concerning things they're interested in?
The info will still be present, but the person has a higher chance to look at some of it, which is more important to their behavior as it concerns areas of where they will be present.
(she/her)
We can't really make a guess on what new accounts are most likely to read. I honestly think it's more likely for people to learn from trial and error than skim through more than one administrivia article. The people who just want to jump into participating on the site aren't going to read anything beforehand no matter how long it is.
I don't think the welcome PM draft is that long and it's broken up into sections so people can just skim to the parts they find useful. The auto welcome PM alone should grab their attention so I think that's enough to me.
Macron's notes
I fixed some links in the above draft.
Admin
" retrospective interjection: Argh, why doesn't the start a thread page have the preview button?"Where is this that the preview button doesn't exist? I'm in the process of adding it to the all the places its missing and want to make sure i get them all.
Edited by kory on May 26th 2023 at 2:48:36 AM
Now monitoring Wishlist and Bugs
(she/her)
^^ Thanks!
~Tropers/kory That was when the preview and other thread buttons were missing from "start thread". You couldn't preview the text of thread OPs when starting a thread. That was fixed earlier this year.
Edited by MacronNotes on May 26th 2023 at 6:23:52 AM
Macron's notes
Well, I must disagree that we can't make a guess on what new accounts are interested in - the vast majority of people won't be coming here to ask about tech suggestions, for example, so the mention of Query Wishlist is superfluous. Dropping people onto the entire Administrivia index doesn't strike me as a good idea, either - someone who has never been here won't know what is important and what not. Finally that draft text points people to rules a lot and to formatting standards not at all. That needs fixing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
(she/her)
I mean, I don't think it would be unfathomable for someone to make a suggestion to query wishlist, it's the sidebar and and lots of people have lurked the site for a long time before making an account. I don't see the harm in simply explaining what the space is for and it's just one line people can easily skip over if they aren't interested. However. I guess we can remove it if it's unnecessary.
The administrivia bullet is probably not needed and we already have a link to Welcome to TV Tropes. Maybe we can replace that with a bullet about formatting.
I can try rewriting it later if someone does it.
Edited by MacronNotes on May 27th 2023 at 3:42:04 PM
Macron's notes
the Retromancer
I approve the automated PM for new users.
I think it should have a more conversational tone and be segmented into three parts:
- A general greeting that would mention Welcome to TV Tropes and Administrivia (I do think asking people to go through it is important).
- Some quick tips about site's structure (ATT, TLP, TRS, IP, Videos, How to Create a Work Page, Edit War).
- And a foldered cheatsheet about everything else of importance, worth bringing up this thread.
Edited by Amonimus on May 27th 2023 at 8:08:17 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
I am not really good at making a more conversational tone or what that looks so I think I'll see if others want to rewrite. As for the administrivia link, I'll go with whatever the majority thinks about it.
I don't know about link to subpages are too short. If there's concerns about the PM being too long, we can't exactly make a foldered cheat sheet. I guess if needed we can direct people to directory thread.
Macron's notes
Yeah, the thing is that we can't mention every possible venue someone might be interested in - that's too many things for a welcome PM.
I'd probably start with Welcome to TV Tropes, Text-Formatting Rules, How to Write an Example and TV Tropes Forum (plus rules link), and refer people who still have questions to Administrivia and Ask The Tropers.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
(she/her)
OK, take #3. How's this?
Hello, [[troper]], and welcome to TV Tropes! There's a few things we want to let you know before you get started, so let's break it down:
- Welcome to TV Tropes contains an in-depth guide of everything you need to know as a new contributor to this wiki.
- Before you decide to edit a page, reading Text-Formatting Rules and How to Write an Example is essential. Also, the edit window for every page has a text box that generates a random tip from the Tips Worksheet, so make sure to pay attention to those guidelines as well.
- If you want to start on the forum side, read this thread to learn about the Forum Rules! This will save you, and us, a lot of time.
- Ask The Tropers is a query forum where you can report problems on the wiki, report other users, and ask general questions that aren't covered by other areas of the site. This board doesn't cover everything, so make sure to click the resource link in the header before making a new query if you are unsure.
- Know the Staff is where info on the site's staff is listed.
...annnd that's the basics! If you want more information about the rules, we have an Administrivia index that hosts many articles that might be of use to you. Don't be afraid to ask for help in Ask The Tropers. We don't bite! (Much.)
We're glad you're here, [[troper]]. Please enjoy your stay at TV Tropes!
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Fixed
Edited by MacronNotes on May 30th 2023 at 7:37:36 AM
Macron's notes
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I like this
You're missing a comma after "Worksheet", and "make to" should be "make sure to". Otherwise, that sounds great.
the Retromancer
I like it.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Made a few minor fixes. I think it looks good. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Am I a weirdo?
I like it.
Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
Is this thing on? It's my first time posting in the Projects/Short-Term forum, so I don't know what to expect.
I know we already have heralds, but how about a single PM that is sent to every user upon registration (i.e. every new user)? It could look something like this, where [[user]] is the person's username. Maybe it's too ambitious, but, eh.
ForumFora side:Don't be afraid to ask for help in Ask The Tropers. We don't bite! (Much.) We're glad you're here, [[username]]. Please enjoy your stay at TV Tropes!
retrospective interjection: Argh, why doesn't the start a thread page have the preview button?
edit: Have to fix the broken formatting. /sigh.
Edited by SilverCrown on May 9th 2021 at 6:26:29 PM