I've seen only a very small amount of In-Universe, which are likely misused under the intended definition (complaining as opposed to hot-button issues). We can cut them without losing anything of value.
Internet Backdraft has 8,224 inbounds. I say it's worth keeping for them and as a recognized concept, but make Flame Bait and put it under Definition-Only Pages.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Mary Sue is a legitimate compairison. Policy would allow most of those wicks to be removed. Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Here are the options that have been suggested so far, though some of these aren't mutually exclusive:
- Cut entirely
- Make it a Definition Only Page
- Make it In-Universe Examples Only
- Add a mandatory waiting period
- Add a citation requirement similar to Unfortunate Implications
- Start a cleanup thread
- Make it Flame Bait
- Turn it into an index of items that cause fan backlash
Edited by ADrago on Jun 13th 2019 at 4:07:41 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Citations, Flame Bait, or making an index.
Cut or index. I'd be ok with In-universe examples, but I don't think there would be enough to be worth considering.
Index of Flame Bait.
If we decide to make this an index, it could include items such as: Tainted by the Preview, Unfortunate Implications, They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot, They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character, WTH, Casting Agency?, WTH, Costuming Department?, The Scrappy (negative reaction to a character), It's the Same, So It Sucks, They Changed It, So It Sucks, etc.
Goku Black
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Any genuinely valid example of Internet Backdraft would better under another trope anyway.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Overshadowed by Controversy would go on that index too.
Edited by miraculous on Jun 13th 2019 at 2:06:42 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'm beginning to lean toward turning Internet Backdraft into an index because thinking about it, a lot of what Internet Backdraft is used for would fit better under different Audience Reactions.
The index idea could work, I guess, as long as the excellent definition write-up is kept.
Side issue: All we do is define tropes and give 'em snappy names. Just because we decide not to list examples doesn't keep it from being a trope, or reduce the utility of the snappy name, which is why we see Internet Backdraft used a lot on the wiki and linked to a lot from all over the 'Net.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. — H.L. Mencken
Discarded and Feeling Blue
After reading through this thread, I say we either index or cut. It's not really useful as-is.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sure it is, as is witnessed by the fact that is being used. A lot.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. — H.L. Mencken
Discarded and Feeling Blue
Being misused as a complaint magnet, at least. :/
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
Making it an index sounds viable, but most of the proposed subpages aren't Flame Bait now and I don't think they should be.
Edited by rjd1922 on Jun 13th 2019 at 5:17:26 AM
Keet cleanup
Here's some more disassembly of the Internet Backdraft examples:
- YMMV.Beauty And The Beast 2017: Unfortunate Implications + Values Dissonance
- YMMV.Bayonetta: We need a new YMMV trope for backlash regarding a work being only available on a specific console or service. Exclusivity Backdraft?
- YMMV.Ben 10 Omniverse: First bullet point is Fan-Disliked Explanation. Second one, I don't know the context in order to place it (possibly They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot?). Third bullet is a mass of complaining about retcons.
- InternetBackdraft.Fallout 76: Hmmm...
- "The fact that the game is a multiplayer-only survival-RPG raised a significant outcry in most online circles." is probably Audience-Alienating Premise, given that the game is a relative commercial flop (it sold worse than the mainline games and New Vegas).
- "The seemingly passive and flippant attitude Bethesda took towards the bugs and glitches occurring during the release of the beta was not well received by fans." Needs a new YMMV trope dedicated to the audience disliking a game due to how buggy or technically failing it is. Its Buggy So It Sucks? The bugginess problem also plagued New Vegas too.
- Brotherhood of Steel bullet point: Seems like a Voodoo Shark.
- Scorchbeasts: They Copied It, So It Sucks!.
- Duffel bag + Nuka Dark: Needs a new YMMV trope dedicated to backlash over tie-in merchandise. Merchandise Backlash?
- There should be another YMMV trope for microtransaction controversies.
Edited by Albert3105 on Jun 13th 2019 at 9:28:19 AM
Internet Backdraft on YMMV.Steven Universe:
- SU/UG Crossover: died shortly after the episode aired, probably knee-jerk addition. Cut.
- TTG reruns: reeks of Examples Are Not Recent and veiled complaining. Cut.
- CN UK and CN France censoring "We Need To Talk" and "Hit The Diamond": do we have a trope where people get mad over censorship?
- Concrete: already covered on Unfortunate Implications, though I wouldn't mind merging the two since this one is better worded.
- CN accidentally leaking a scene from "Legs From Here To Homeworld" months before it actually aired: more towards the network than the show itself, ZCE, pretty sure it died. Cut.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Its Buggy So It Sucks could be covered by Obvious Beta.
Short-Term Projects herald
I feel Internet Backdraft, as I understand it, is more for explosions than sustained conflicts.
That said, I'm also thinking of things like New Coke, which is perhaps the Most Triumphant Example of They Changed It, Now It Sucks! for Real Life, which was pre-Internet and thus counts in spirit, but not in words.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I'm fine with tagging this as Flame Bait instead of deleting it entirely.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Just to note, the page is already No On-Page Examples, so making it Flame Bait is a de facto call to make it join Definition-Only Pages as well.
Edited by crazysamaritan on Jun 13th 2019 at 11:06:21 AM
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
- Eight Point Eight: People get mad because they think a critic gave a work too low or too high of a review score.
- Angst Aversion: Audiences are disinterested in a work because it's too dark or depressing.
- Ass Pull: Fans don't like a plot twist or plot development that wasn't properly foreshadowed.
- Audience-Alienating Premise: A work's premise turns away enough buyers to cause the work to become a commercial failure, regardless of the work's quality.
- Contested Sequel: Some fans like a sequel, some don't.
- Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy: The audience stops caring about how the story ends because it's too dark and depressing.
- Die for Our Ship: A canonically-existing character is demonized in or written out of fanon in order to make way for fans' preferred pairings.
- Don't Shoot the Message: The creators attempt to communicate a noble message in their work, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
- Eight Deadly Words: The characters in a work are written poorly enough that the audience doesn't care about what happens to the characters.
- Ending Aversion: The audience is upset at how the work's ending is executed.
- Esoteric Happy Ending: An ending wants to present itself as a happy ending, but it rubs the audience off the wrong way.
- Exclusivity Backlash: Fans get angry about the fact that a work is exclusive to a console or other specific method of distribution.
- Fanon Discontinuity: The fandom disapproves of an installment in a franchise enough that fans pretend that it's not canon.
- He Panned It Now He Sucks: Fans get angry at a critic for giving their work a negative review.
- Itsthe Same So It Sucks: Audiences feel a sequel is too similar to a previous entry in the series or don't like how an aspect was kept the same.
- Merchandise Backdraft: Fans do not like a work's tie-in merchandise.
- Obvious Beta: A game is very buggy or without technical polish to the point that it significantly detracts from the overall experience.
- Porting Disaster: Fans complain of a drop of quality when a video game is ported to another system.
- The Scrappy: The audience doesn't like a certain character.
- Sequelitis: Fans consider later installments of the franchise to become more inferior as more are produced.
- Ship-to-Ship Combat: Supporters of different pairings of characters within (and many times outside of) the work get into ugly fights regularly.
- Strangled by the Red String: Two characters are made to end up in a romantic relationship that fans consider poorly developed.
- Tainted by the Preview: The audience does not get a good first impression of the work before it is released.
- They Changed It, So It Sucks: Audiences feel a sequel is too different from a previous entry in the series or don't like how an aspect was changed about it.
- They Copied It, So It Sucks!: The audience is upset that a work copied something from another.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: The fandom complains that a character does not get enough screentime in the work.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Fans feel a certain plot point did not get enough focus.
- Unfortunate Implications: A moment in the work implies to its audience an offensive message.
- WTH, Casting Agency?: Fans think a creator associated with a work may be ill-suited for their role.
- WTH, Costuming Department?: Fans don't think the costume or character designers did a very good job.
- Values Dissonance: It gets ugly when certain groups of the audience have different cultural or social values to a work created in a different time and place.
Edited by Albert3105 on Jun 14th 2019 at 10:43:58 AM
Here are some more that can be added to the list:
- Eight Point Eight: People get mad because they think a critic gave a work too low or too high of a review score.
- Angst Aversion: Audiences are disinterested in a work because it's too dark or depressing.
- Ass Pull: Fans don't like a plot twist or plot development that wasn't properly foreshadowed.
- He Panned It Now He Sucks: Fans get angry at a critic for giving their work a negative review.
- It's the Same, So It Sucks: Audiences feel a sequel is too similar to a previous entry in the series or don't like how an aspect was kept the same.
- They Changed It, So It Sucks: Audiences feel a sequel is too different from a previous entry in the series or don't like how an aspect was changed about it.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Fans feel a certain plot point did not get enough focus.
Edited by ADrago on Jun 13th 2019 at 12:57:04 PM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think it's worth noting that some subtropes of Character Derailment, which is Flame Bait, are not Flame Bait themselves. It's not out of the question to make Internet Backdraft Flame Bait while not giving that status to all of its subtropes (if it's made into a supertrope).
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
What should be done with Internet Backdraft? Options 2 and 3 are not mutually exclusive with each other, but option 1 is mutually exclusive with all other options.
We keep definition-only pages around to define the pages. I don't see why bother having definition-only pages is even wanted. All it does is cause more work for us trying to remove instances of people using it on other pages.
For example, Mary Sue is "definition only", but has 1781 wicks. Doesn't seem very definition-only to me. Seems like we took the examples off the main page and said "Mission Accomplished".
Mary Sue is a defined concept - we didn't make up the term. Defining it seems to have value, but preventing people from wicking it all over TV Tropes has proven to be impossible.
I'm aware this is going off-topic, so I'm won't continue this discussion in this thread anymore.
It does however explain why I see no reason to keep this page as Definition Only.
Edited by bitemytail on Jun 13th 2019 at 12:16:04 PM