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Luppercus ¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay? from Halloweentown Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay?
#1: Nov 24th 2017 at 6:39:18 PM

Alright, here's the thing. I'm working on a sci-fi novel and I really need for narrative purposes the existence of The Federation, i.e. a multy-planetary alliance of planet with a central government. But I'm having a hard time to make it feel creative or original because is such a used trope.

Thing is, the story is kind of a Space Opera, but with some social commentary over all political systems and ideologies with each power of the Galaxy representing a system. I wanted to be fair and criticize also the Western democracy so I wanted to introduce a US/EU-like democratic federation with a two party system that presents itself in the moral high ground as epitome of freedom and democracy, but at the same time having some hypocritical attitude sponsoring proxy wars and authoritarian allied governments. The critics doesn't work as well if is not with the Star Trekish-Federation style environment, but I'm afraid the reader may not catch the satire right away and thinks is just another Space Opera with a Federation.

The events happen in the future, Earth is a member but is considered a minor member as it's very backwards in comparison to other planets. The central idea is that there are five to six main powers in the Galaxy fighting each other directly or though proxy wars and switching loyalties and alliances easily, until a very powerful ancient enemy forces them to join together.

I probably will set it in the same universe of one of my books that is to be publish next year, but many centuries later. On that book there's nothing like a Federation because the plot does not requires it, but some political changes on the species that appear there could end on such scenario. I hope I explain myself well enough.

In case you wonder the six states will be:

edited 24th Nov '17 6:40:00 PM by Luppercus

indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#2: Nov 27th 2017 at 2:12:29 AM

I notice the things the trope namer is most often criticized for are its economical conventions, or rather the lack thereof. There's little to no mention of where the staple resources come from, how the manufacturing and trade frameworks function... the whole thing essentially runs on a heroic version of offscreen villain dark matter. Consequently, the associated social attitudes - the pathological aversion to all things capitalist, or the sugarcoated idea that people need only work for fun or personal development - is rightfully seen as naive by anyone who's ever had bills to pay.

So instead, the proposed unification may have a solid economical basis. One system has plenty of raw resources, but no rare metals that would be needed for advanced manufacturing. Another has said metals, but is agriculturally deficient. A third one has food to spare, but needs other resources to develop its industry. And while every other galactic state has imposed a centralized government onto all its constituents without giving them any real say, the Federation thrives precisely because its members have effective self-rule outside mutually-negotiated economic regulations and joint military operations.

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#3: Nov 27th 2017 at 5:50:29 AM

In addition, you could add the other thing that Star Trek often includes - a weird level of bureaucracy that hampers decision making and clouds their high minded views; and a weird overlap and uncertainty about the role of their military versus their explorers. It could be that the other races can the point to their "high minded civilian fleets" are pootling about in thinly veiled warships, causing all manner of cultural issues.

You're a warlike, authoritarian race and suddenly all those preachy, specialist aid ships come along, basically matching your fleet's tonnage, but with better PR - that's basically what it boils down to.

Luppercus ¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay? from Halloweentown Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay?
#4: Nov 27th 2017 at 10:51:40 PM

[up][up] Well I never conceived it to be as socialistic as the Star Trek Federation is, because as it is based on the European Union it was intended to have a liberal economy. It has two main parties; one center-right and one center-left but part of the criticism is how they are not really that different outside of social issues, and there are some minor parties but the only with some protagonism is a nationalist party inside one of the member worlds fighting to split away.

[up] That is a good idea. An orwellian bureaucracy and stagnated political system may work as an interesting system. The military part was already taking into account, although in my version the group (whose name is not going to be "Federation" btw, probably Confederacy) is not as pacifist as the United Federation of Planets and they do have an obvious army, they do claim to act only in defense, which is false because they do are the aggressors sometimes or endorse violent groups in their proxy wars. Part of the idea is showing that they are not that different from their enemy The Empire.

edited 27th Nov '17 10:54:28 PM by Luppercus

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#5: Nov 28th 2017 at 5:17:40 AM

[up] Good idea. Even the Federation, considering it had Section 31, wasn't as "pacifist" - but it was more a reflection on the Romulan Empire. One was overt about its expansionism, secret orders and advanced technology - the other was more married to its ideal of being the peacekeepers.

Speaking of, look at the Sebaceans from Farscape - or rather the Peacekeepers - an originally martial, high minded organisation for maintaining galactic parity, they slid into a corrupt, domineering, heavily military society.

Luppercus ¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay? from Halloweentown Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay?
#6: Nov 28th 2017 at 2:20:39 PM

[up] Well I don't want to go that far, I do want the Confederacy to be the "good guys" but in a more Gray-and-Gray Morality, yet it is indeed a good idea to take some ideas from there.

On the other hand, what about the origin? As I said, this is probably be set in the same universe as a incoming novel. This novel has Space Romans e.i. the Lotharian Empire, an Empire that to that point is very old and very cultured, with advance technology and a somewhat democratic society. It's kind of based on Japan during the Meiji Restoration: it has a caste system, but it also has a democratically elected Senate and a Primer Minister but with an active Emperor. It has control over several worlds all of them represented in the Senate, and although the Lotharians consider themselves superiors to other races, are not really mean or evil at that point and have a lot of allies including Earth and its colonies (the Solar League).

Now I think I have two options, as this other story would probably be a century or two after this first novel.

  • The Lotharian Empire just falls after a series of rebellions and foreign invasions, turning into the Confederacy with all the former provinces now as equal members, and eventually admitting humans and other allies as members. Now, the first scenario I like because it has certain parallelism with real life, as the Roman Empire's fall was the founding basics of Europe and the European Union is sometimes call "the modern Roman Empire". In this case will be the Sarkites (that are a lot like the Germanic tribes) the ones that eventually turn into the evil Empire experiencing a fascistic stage a lot like Germany did.
  • The Lotharian Empire enters a time of expansionist and extreme nationalistic warfare, first with its enemies (the Sarkites, a wolf-like Proud Warrior Race) but then at some points alienates its allies thus causing a Galactic war, that they lose. Most of their old provinces get independent and alongside humans and other former allies become the Confederacy, with the remains of the Empire as the cruel fascistic dictatorship.
  • The Lotharian Empire does falls, but the remains do not turn into Evil Empire but more into The Kingdom, this opens the possibility for a succession war at some point with Confederates and Sarkites (and others) supporting different factions.

Which one you think is the best?

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#7: Nov 29th 2017 at 2:34:06 AM

[up] Weirdly, a combo of all three could work. But for a novel, most readers like to pin things on a single root cause (For easy exposition. You can hint at other nuance or expand on it with other characters)

If the fall happens DURING the novels, that in itself is something to see - the Roman Empire fell over a prolonged period, with the territories fragmenting slowly - The Eastern empire of Constantinople, the provinces in the north etc.

I think the Empire transitioning to a Confederacy is more logical, as the old caste systems are chafed against (Even if they are egalitarian) - we can see how, even in our supposedly peaceful and well provided democracies, there's still resentment and unfulfilled obligations.

What happens to the old Aristocracy or Emperor? Violently deposed? Or allowed to step away with grace into a more "symbolic" role - like the Queen in England?

You could have the conflict that clan race as a contributing factor - the home territories tired of fuelling a potential war, unseating several senators, rising protests in the core worlds, disruption to core services across the Empire due to increased spending on military expeditions. They don't even need to be aggressively military, but a couple of diplomatic overreaches and some poorly timed skirmishes could cause a backlash for opportunists at home...?

Anyway, Option one is good and doesn't rule out future conflicts with the tribes.

MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#8: Nov 29th 2017 at 7:10:16 PM

Personally, I'd say strip the definition of the term back to its bare bones, and see what it looks like.

Take the Empire for example. At its heart you have a few simple ideas:

  • One person in command (if not in control)
  • The position on the throne is passed down by heredity
  • Regional governors appointed by the central government, and have little power in themselves (a key difference from a monarchy)

Those are pretty much the only constant of empires as far as I can make out, everything out is just optional extras. Therefore, the empire can be really anything you want it to be. Likewise the federation is just a bunch of powers that have surrendered a bit of control in exchange for the security of a group.

Luppercus ¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay? from Halloweentown Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay?
#9: Nov 29th 2017 at 8:22:49 PM

Very good observations guys.

I haven’t thought on what would happen to the Emperor and the old aristocracy in scenario one but I guess in the case of the Emperor would be reduce to a symbolic figure if keeps the throne at all. Although having a deposed royal family claiming to the throne and with some loyalist radicals here and there could be an interesting source of conflict.

And no, the idea for the novel is that the Empire fell long before the events in it begin due to the gap between the first one and the second one, the fall happens "off-camera".

On that train of thought I'm inclining for the first one.

JerekLaz Since: Jun, 2014
#10: Dec 5th 2017 at 2:37:28 AM

So how has the Theocracy survived? I mean, most religions have a primacy element for the sentient race, so finding aliens could be challenging?

And the Corporatocracy - Ferengi like, or more like the Caldari from Ev E?

Luppercus ¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay? from Halloweentown Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay?
#11: Dec 5th 2017 at 7:53:58 PM

The Theocracy is more like a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of Tibet, in fact is the oldest of the civilizations and the most advance, but at the same time they're absolute pacifists and neutrals (they have to let their neutrality go when the biggest threat comes forcing them all to unite). Their religion is some sort of non-theistic spiritualism similar to Buddhism or Taoism so is not that affected by the discovering of alien life as Buddhism/Taoism won't be in real life.

For the Corporatocracy I was thinking in something more like the Iron Bank of Game of Thrones, it already appears in the first novel as the Galactic Bank, lead by the Jezari (more like the Goblins in Harry Potter than the Ferengi but similar to Lemurs).

edited 6th Dec '17 1:43:26 AM by Luppercus

Luppercus ¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay? from Halloweentown Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay?
#12: Dec 9th 2017 at 11:42:40 PM

Alright, I’ve been thinking on the origins of the Federation and its relationship with The Empire (which btw I want it to be a kind of frenemy rivalry, I mean, not as much as the US vs USSR that were swear enemies but more US vs Russia with certainly a global political rivalry but mutual cooperation against common enemies and in sports, science and humanitarian aid if one of both has a natural disaster).

I think I have two main ideas;

  • Option a) After the fall of the Lotharian Empire due to the Coalition war (when humans, Vogans and Sarkites joined again the recently expansionist Lotharians and won) a group of hardliners disgruntled with the surrender and considering it a treason leave the Empire with their clans and several thousands of followers and took over a distant group of colonial systems creating a new political force later known as the Soth Empire. The rest of the Lotharian Empire turns in the Lotharian Confederation (or just Star Confederation it depends on other issue that you’ll see below). Note: the name Soth probably would come or from the name of the radical faction or the samurai-like Military Order that most founders were members of.

Pros: I like this idea because it quite reflects some real life situations like the split of the Roman Empire in Western and Eastern and the eventual fall of the West, the split of Germany and some other cases.

Cons: I think it could be too similar to Star Wars with the remnants of the Empire and/or like Star Trek with the Vulcan/Romulan split.

  • Option b) The enemy will be the Sarkites. It will be similar to the above but with this difference; Yes the Lotharian Empire falls and turns into the Confederation after losing the Coalition War, but the Sarkites eventually become nationalistic and fall into a fascistic regime (in the first novel the Sarkites are an alliance of independent warrior tribes like the Old Germans, thus this would mirror a little bit the reunification of Germany and the Third Reich tho not as brutal). But Sarkites would also be a little like the Russians as cold strategists and gameplayers.

Pros: I really like the idea of using the Sarkites a lot an explore their culture.

Cons: The idea of an enemy warrior race it’s kind of cliché.

Now, I know both ideas may exist simultaneously and if I go for the option a I probably still will use the Sarkites as a secondary antagonist/minor power. The real question is if using option a or not.


On the other hand I’m also thinking in the dynamic of the Confederation. On one hand I first thought in doing the classic with it as a unified state, like the Star Trek Federation that seems to be one single state or “country”. But I started to think that an interesting idea would be to make more European Union-like that what I originally though. For example; after the Coalition War the members of the Coalition just became more and more close to each other, having a common Parliament like the European Parliament, open border like the Schengen Agreement and a military alliance like NATO, but they are on all regards independent worlds with totally separated governments.

Pros: Well, it’s kind of different to what is normally done.

Cons: It would require not only more effort but also more attention on behalf of the reader as he/she won’t be dealing with one government but with a lot more of governments, which I think it can get heavy.

Opinions? I really appreaciate your feedback.

edited 9th Dec '17 11:45:55 PM by Luppercus

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