Hi, folks! We're currently in the middle of an extended wiki development project that will add some nifty tools to the moderation kit (and some bells and whistles for tropers as well). While a full list of what's coming is outside the scope of this topic, there is one very specific thing that needs community involvement and feedback: the namespace configuration system.
In a Nutshell
We're changing namespaces from informal components that anyone can add (you can make an article in the "Glurkbrgl" namespace if you want, just by editing it) to a formal list of allowed values. This list can be added to and offers additional controls, such as the ability to set which style sheet is used by articles in the namespace, which page type is the default, the icon for the namespace tab bar, and how editing and article creation work.Namespace Configuration System
- Namespaces will be itemized in a database table.
- There will be a php page where anyone can view the list and the settings for each namespace, and mods can edit them.
- The configuration system will have (roughly) the following attributes:
- Name: (Main, YMMV, etc.) This will include the canonical capitalization of the namespace (see below).
- Editing Status: This will be a selection from a list of possible restrictions, from "Open" (anyone can edit/create articles) to "Require TLP" (article creation must go through Trope Launch Pad) to "Closed" (nobody can edit or create articles), and a few more.
- Page Type: The default page type to assign to articles in the namespace (a work, a creator, a trope, a subpage, etc.).
- Style: Main, Darth Wiki, Sugar Wiki, etc.
- Auto-Index: Whether the namespace behaves like normal or is automatically indexed, such as in Laconic Wiki.
- Icon: Choose the icon that appears in the namespace tab bar in the header of wiki articles.
- When anyone requests a wiki article (HTTP GET to pmwiki.php), the namespace part of the URL will be checked and forced to the proper capitalization. This will prevent things like "Ymmv", which break wiki functionality.
- When anyone tries to create or edit an article, the namespace configuration will be checked to determine if that action is allowed. If creation is blocked, a suitable message will be displayed. If editing is blocked, then the article will display as locked.
What We Need
What we need from the community is agreement on which namespaces should be kept and which should be discarded. The wiki has accumulated a lot of cruft due to the free-for-all nature of namespace creation, and we want to start with as clean a slate as possible.For reference:
- The formal namespace list is here: Namespace.
- The complete list of namespaces may be viewed with this tool: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/articlecount.php
- The full list of articles in any particular namespace may be seen here, except that it won't work for Main: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/namespace_index.php?ns=YMMV.
How This Will Work
If we decide not to keep a namespace, any articles in it should either be cut or moved to a more suitable namespace. Any such namespaces that have remaining articles when the new system goes live will be set to "Closed", so that nobody can make new ones and the existing ones will be automatically locked.For all remaining namespaces, we need to populate the initial settings: page type, editing status, and style. Note that many of these are already known and configured, so we'll carry those over — there's no need to renegotiate the status of Main or YMMV, for example. I'm mainly talking about the odder ones like, say, Castle.
After the system goes live, if anyone tries to add an article that isn't in an approved namespace, the attempt will be blocked. Requesting new namespaces would be done in the Locked Pages topic or some other topic we create specifically for that purpose.
Rules and Procedures
- The working list of namespaces to load into the configuration system will be stored in Namespace Cleanup Project.
- Any user may bring up a namespace that they think should be removed or given special handling.
- If there is significant immediate consensus, we'll approve it and any required actions (cleanup, transplants) can begin.
- If consensus is not clear, then we will use a crowner to collect votes.
We will also answer general questions about the system in this topic, but we will keep it focused specifically on the namespace project. Off-topic thumps will be used if needed.
- Q: Are we changing any media namespaces (Film, Western Animation, Manhua, etc.)?
A: No, we are not. That's not in the scope of the project; the intent is to configure all media namespaces as they currently exist. - Q: What are we doing with examples subpages (like Castle.Tropes Ato D)?
A: We want to clean those up. Check out this post to see some ideas, and this Google Drive doc for a list of all such articles.
Note: We can't just merge them back together, as most were hard split for size to begin with. - Q: So what should we focus on?
A: That's a great question! We're looking mainly at namespaces that have fewer than 40 articles in them, and that are not medium namespaces. In other words, let's start from the bottom of the list. In particular, let's get rid of one-off namespaces that aren't being used for actual trope content. - Q: Is there a list of all namespaces that are being used for trope example subpages?
A: Thanks for asking. Yes, it's here. Note that some media namespaces were caught in the query.
Edited by nombretomado on Jan 5th 2020 at 11:39:34 AM
Lost in Space
We should find a better namespace for that.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I think it should be in Theatre, because the original medium is live performances on a stage in front of crowds. I'm fairly confident that such performances are scripted, with a bit of Harpo Does Something Funny notated within events.
edited 25th May '18 6:40:28 AM by crazysamaritan
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Veteran Editor IV
Either Theatre or Useful Notes. Probably UN since stuff like Olympic Games, another sporting event, is there.
edited 25th May '18 7:41:54 AM by Piterpicher
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
I vote for Useful Notes, Theatre seems kinda iffy to me.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
My reasoning is that the Monster truck rallies are more similar to shows like Professional Wrestling than sports like NASCAR.
The next most similar "theatre-in-the-round" performances are circuses like Le Cirque Réinventé, which are also in the Theatre namespace.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Blapper of Water
Would it be feasible to make a new namespace for it? One that could be made generalize-able to other public events? Why not Spectacle Sport/ or something (with further discussion)? It doesn't seem to fit well in Useful Notes. Olympic Games and Useful Notes NASCAR at least have (some) references in fiction to support the presence in UN (though for some reason NASCAR lacks any subsections).
(And the Theatre/ namespace seems totally out of left field to me so I'm not sure how to respond on that point.)
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
born in a graveyard, raised in a garage
I'd be fine with either Spectacle Sport or just Sport. I agree that calling it Theatre might be a stretch (due to Kayfabe amongst other reasons).
Edited by TenEight on Jun 26th 2018 at 4:51:45 AM
(he/him) ＡＮＩＭＡＬ ＳＰＯＲＴＳ
Lost in Space
The namespace configuration tool is live with this latest update. I've configured all of the ones that we preloaded. There are still a few issues that are being worked out, though, and it doesn't look like everything got into the system.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
In my opinion, we should unlock the WebOriginal/ namespace. There are some things that do belong there that we should be able to edit like LOLCats and OS-tan, which are currently locked. Here's my suggestion: We should unlock the WebOriginal/ namespace, but when one creates a new page in it, there should be a notifier that reads:
This way, tropers would know what belongs where, and the WebOriginal/ namespace would be used correctly.
I've tried unlocking that.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
The namespace configuration system is ready? I thought that meant you couldn't create new pages in invalid namespaces, but Glurkbrgl.Home Page is still creatable.
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
Lost in Space
I know. We're asking about it.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Edited by DiamondJim on Jun 28th 2018 at 1:32:13 AM
We should probably lock the NamespaceGoesHere/ and Namespace/ namespaces. They're meant to be placeholders, but I've seen several users mistakenly create pages in them, particularly NamespaceGoesHere/.
Would a list of translated namespaces (such as FrJeuVideo/ for instance) be relevant, or... ?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
- Actually, there seems to be only one:
- NamespaceGoesHere.Ninja Nerd, made May 27th 2018 at 4:18:08 AM.
All the rest are cut pages, which are somehow still searchable.
According to the namespace list, there are no pages using "Namespace" as a namespace.
But, locking it would be a good idea?
Edited by Malady on Jul 3rd 2018 at 3:23:55 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
...
Is the Discworld namespace being migrated to Literature or not? I once read in a thread that it was, but many pages still redlink under Literature.
This is somewhat related to namespaces:
Are you supposed to be an admin to create Administrivia pages? I was just able to create Administrivia.Testing and I'm not an admin of any kind.
Lost in Space
Yes, the configuration lockout isn't working. It's on the priority list to fix, along with a bunch of other things. I can't say when it'll be gotten to though.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Just found PuppetShows.Happy World... Only thing in its namespace, made ~5 months ago.
The majority of wicks to Main.Zero Context Example are now of the "Page has no wicks" Ghost wick, kind.
Edited by Malady on Jul 27th 2018 at 5:12:30 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
🍊orange fursona🧡
Regarding music albums, should they all fall under the Music/ namespace? What would happen if there's a page where the artist released a self titled album?
ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔|I DO COMMISSIONS|ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔
Lost in Space
Stick the year on the album name. It's a little tricky, of course, but you run into problems no matter how you slice it. Frankly, albums are rarely independently tropable unless they form some sort of self-contained narrative structure, like Rush's 2112.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Is this thread still active?
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
Veteran Editor IV
It does not seem like this thread is active. Still, I personally hope that the namespace configuration tool will go publicly visible (but editable for moderators) eventually.
Also, if the moderators can indeed customise stuff with namespaces and one of the things that could be changed is namespace icons, could we possibly discuss new icons for namespaces that are here to stay like VisualNovel, or suggest a not invisible in Night Vision icon for Headscratchers, in Image Picking? Just asking out of curiosity. Thank you.
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
SportingEvent.Monster Jam got created by a new account and I don't think I've ever seen that namespace before