Rules for Self-Demonstrating character pages: Which ones to delete, and what guidelines new ones must follow

We already have another thread about SD character pages, but it mostly meanders around talking about the pages with no real focus. Here, I'm creating a thread to discuss which current ones SD pages should be deleted, to discuss what rules should be in place for future pages, and to hopefully reach a consensus on both fronts.

So let's get started with what current pages should be deleted IMO (I haven't gone through all of them):

• Kyoko Sakura: Kyoko doesn't have an interesting or unique enough voice to merit a page. Much of the page extrapolates on her personality, and makes her more of a narcissistic, showboating Large Ham than she is in canon.
• Wolverine: His voice isn't unique or interesting enough to merit a page; he mostly talks normally, and his personality comes from his attitude. A lot of sections on the page are awkward, such as the section where he mentions gay people.
• Captain Falcon: Page is very heavily based on fanon depictions of Captain Falcon, and heavily extrapolates on his Super Smash Bros. depiction (e.g. has him refer to himself in Bold Inflation for no good reason). Gives him Intentional Engrish for Funny when he's only been seen speaking in short phrases that aren't quite as broken as much of the writing on the page.
• L: Has the character explain himself in great detail, which defeats the whole purpose of the page, the character and the series.
• Asuka Langley Soryu: Impulsively created based on the assumption that Kyoko's similar page was acceptable for the wiki (Kyoko was cutlisted, but was rejected due to no consensus being cited).

And here's my draft of the rules for future pages:

• A consensus must be reached that the page is worth adding to the wiki, either through the forums or through YKTTW.
• A page can be proposed either as a simple idea/concept, or as a draft introductory section.
• If a page is rejected as a simple idea/concept, it can be re-proposed with a draft introductory section to prove that, yes, the character does deserve a page. Surprise the mods!
• If a page is heavily out-of-character, it must be rewritten to fit the character's personality. If this can't be done without completely destroying the page, then the page should be deleted.

I'm only one troper (and not a very knowledgeable one, at that), so any opinions, suggestions and amendments would be much appreciated. Thanks!

edited 23rd Oct '16 7:37:19 PM by Darthrai

Don't know why we need a second active topic. But there should be one rule:

Thou shalt not.

I used to support these but fuck 'em. If we try to keep a gem like Deadpool around then everybody and their dog gets to have a "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm so Book Dumb" page. Just kill them all and we don't have to waste time policing or making policy for them.

I'd be fine with that; I actually discussed it in the other thread, but it ended up amounting to nothing in the end.

Maybe we could make this thread so it's solely to figure out the guidelines of the overall namespace? Once we figure that out, actual removing of any can be done in the other thread.

It'd be the only real reason we need this thread(I'm aware it didn't go well in the other thread, but making this a literal second version of the same thread won't make the discussion go anywhere).

Plus, I know this thread's intention isn't for "Whether the namespace should exist or not", which is only worthwhile for the other thread(and other discussion).

Makes sense. What do people think of the drafted rules/guidelines?

So far, they look pretty reasonable. I think a YKTTW draft is a better idea than just forums. If only to help flesh them out.

Thanks! Though I think the forums should be left open for an option (at least for now) since YKTTW reponses can be slow at times; I think it was that way when I tried to propose an SD page through them.

Now should we just wait for the mods and other users to give their opinions?

I'm of the opinion to cut them all. Writing a character's voice is writing a fanfic. That's all there is to it.

Here's a good one to add to the rules list; They must be based upon a canon version of the character.

Likewise; If talking a character from a fanfic, it must be a character solely made by the author first, which would be canon to that story only.

They go hand in hand, but that's a related factor.

I don't feel passionately about it, since the good ones aren't doing any harm (unless encouraging low-quality imitators counts), but... yeah, this.

The thing is that they do encourage those. That's why we have this problem in the first place.

I'm on the "cut them all" side. They're just annoying to read

Honestly, these things have caused so much headache that I'm moving into the "salt the earth" camp.

I have to side with the "cut them all" group.^note And I think that if a SD page has an unreasonably high amount of inbounds (like, well...) it should be locked and turned into a redirect to the parent work.

So can we hold a vote of how many people are in favor of the following three options?

• Cut all SD character pages
• Allow SD pages, but decide which current pages to delete and impose rules for future pages
• Keep current pages with no rules

I think I know what you're getting at with your avatar.

edited 24th Oct '16 8:21:05 AM by Darthrai

One option that hasn't been mentioned: limit it to characters who have No Fourth Wall. That way, it makes sense for the character to be addressing the readers directly.

Examples of such Fourth Wall-bending/breaking/observing characters: The Joker and Deadpool.

Sounds like a good idea. Now, how to hold the vote?

edited 24th Oct '16 2:42:06 PM by Darthrai

We could hold the vote to keep them in the other thread, imo.

That said, I like that idea. There's more than enough series that has no fourth wall, or loves to address the readers on occasion. It may remove a lot of regular character choices, but at least this'll tone down the amount of pages that can come up, which will help with quality.

I say fuck 'em all and salt the Earth. The cons outweigh the pros.

So hold a vote in the other thread?

Crowner specifically. That way it could help show a bit more information on why people think it should be kept or removed. Better to have a debate and crowner and all. Plus, all of the reasons why people think of it being on the site is already in the other thread, so it's far more useful there than this thread.

I would've waited for the crowner till we got the proper guidelines down. If only to see if the guidelines actually work well enough. Cause it's not even really hurting the site outside of the fact it had no guidelines. With them, there's a far better chance of the pages becoming high quality(but as I said, not guaranteed). But anyway, clearly people want to vote instead of work on guidelines or try to save it(which is fine, as that's the troper body's consensus/most voted), so we should do that first.

This one is tricky, as SD pages are one of those things that's widely popular among the people out there on the wiki who don't actively participate in the management of the site. Any vote we hold is likely to be strongly biased towards the sausage-makers, which is not a bad thing necessarily, but we should seek to make it as inclusive as possible.

Of course, it's all moot if we vote to keep SD in general but end up removing 90% of the pages for failing our quality standards.

Is there any way to get the attention of those people?

Yeah, delete something they like.

edited 25th Oct '16 8:54:48 AM by Fighteer