Nice rundown of the example list. Opened.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportI find that the difference is that Adaptation Displacement seems to be about what work in the franchise people think was the original, while Ink-Stain Adaptation is more about people thinking the entire franchise is like that, even if they know there are previous versions. They're similar, but not exactly the same (even ignoring the negative spin).
Check out my fanfiction!^ That's a fair point, actually. I'd still consider them similar enough to be worth lumping, but reworking them to emphasize the distinction could be another valid option.
I'd originally intended to file this TRS under "complaining" as opposed to "duplicate trope," but as I went through the examples, I found that most of them are surprisingly complaining-free considering the negative connotation of the trope name and the negative spin of the trope description. If we do keep Ink-Stain Adaptation, at minimum we should rewrite the description to be less negative. We could consider a name change as well, although at present there's probably not enough evidence of misuse to justify it. When I have the time I'll do a wick check to see if the wicks have the same general tone as the on-page examples or if there's a difference there we should be aware of.
Wick check time:
- Trivia.Tank Girl: Zero Context Example. Also incorrectly filed under "Trivia" as opposed to YMMV.
- Franchise.Zorro: Substantially the same as an Adaptation Displacement entry. No complaining.
- Characters.Saint Seiya Gold Saints: Misuse, talking about the portrayal of a character, not a franchise. Also incorrectly indented, sharing a line with a semi-related trope.
- YMMV.Fantastic Four 2005: Zero Context Example, complaining.
- YMMV.Batman And Robin: Zero Context Example, complaining, and misuse. Bad as this movie was, it certainly didn't irrevocably color public perception of the Batman franchise as a whole. Nowadays it's a footnote in Batman history.
- YMMV.Wraeththu: Complaining, Zero Context Example, misuse. Just says "this adaptation is really bad" without attempting to show that it also colored public perception of the franchise.
- YMMV.Robin Hood 2010: Complaining, Zero Context Example, misuse. Just says "this adaptation is really bad" without attempting to show that it also colored public perception of the franchise.
- Trivia.Fist Of The North Star: Passing mention without enough context to judge whether it's misuse.
- YMMV.Robin: Pot Hole referring to the Batman And Robin complain-y misuse Zero Context Example above.
- Creator.TV Tokyo: Misuse, complaining. Uses it as a Pot Hole to refer to "really bad adaptation."
- YMMV.Pokemon: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
- BrokenBase.Anime And Manga: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
- Laconic.Fantastic Four 2005: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
- YMMV.Lucifer: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
- YMMV.Popeye: Correct-ish use, but very complain-y.
- Characters.MCU Others: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
- Main.Politically Incorrect Hero: Correct use, referring to an adaptation that made a chance that stuck.
- YMMV.Superman II: Correct use, referring to an adaptation that made a chance that stuck.
- YMMV.The Ugly Barnacle: Zero Context Example
- Main.Unbuilt Trope: A passing above-the-line mention, not enough context to determine use.
- Comic Book.Watchmen: Misuse, referring to an Expy in an entirely different franchise rather than an actual adaptation.
- YMMV.Sonic Boom: Complaining, Zero Context Example, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
- YMMV.Star Wars: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation." Extra misuse because it's not even an adaptation, it's a prequel.
- Main.Never Live It Down: An above-the-line "compare" note in a trope description; not enough context to determine use. Given the negative connotation of Never Live It Down, I'd say it counts as complaining.
- They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.Film: Correct use, referring to an adaptation that colors perceptions of the franchise.
Findings:
- Zero Context Example: 7 (28%)
- Complaining: 15 (60%)
- Misuse: 14 (56%)
- Correct-ish use: 4 (16%)
- Other (above-the-line mentions or Pot Holes without enough context to judge use, etc.): 3 (12%)
edited 27th Aug '16 2:47:13 PM by HighCrate
Based on the above, I'd say my initial concerns that this is a complaining magnet are more justified than I thought. I have to wonder if the relative lack of complaining in the main example list isn't due to a previous cleanup effort that didn't get far enough to clean the wicks.
It could also be that in general, at least I find that wicks are more prone to misuse and other types bad example writing than the main trope page (character pages in particular are prone to needing cleanups).
For complaining, yeah, the wicks certainly have that. A rename and slight description rewrite would probably help if we decided to not merge.
If we merge them, what would you propose the definition be? Including both as variants of the same trope, taking only one of them, or some other mix?
Check out my fanfiction!Adaptation Displacement, once you get past the Example As Thesis, is defined in its trope description as, "the phenomenon by which a derivative work becomes successful enough to overshadow the original work completely."
I'd say that's broad enough to encompass both "an adaptation so popular that people think it's the original" (how you defined it above, and how many of the examples and wicks seem to use it) and "an adaptation to a long-running franchise which irrevocably colors the public's perception of the franchise as a whole" (which is how Ink-Stain Adaptation is defined according to its description).
edited 27th Aug '16 3:50:25 PM by HighCrate
I vote against the merge, as they're distinct enough concepts. Ink-Stain might need rename to deemphasizes the potential complaint aspects of it.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?Anything that's used correctly only 16 percent of the time should just get cut. If someone wants to do it properly from scratch, sure, but right now, this is just a trash pile.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. DickThat works too.
I'm just against a merge is all.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?Yep, axe it.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportGonna go with not cut, then.
Check out my fanfiction!So it seems like the options under discussion are:
- Cut Ink-Stain Adaptation and all wicks and salt the earth.
- Move Ink-Stain Adaptation examples that would fit under Adaptation Displacement there, make it a redirect to that trope, and cut or move all wicks.
- Rename Ink-Stain Adaptation to something with a less negative connotation, rewrite the description to be less complain-y and to emphasize the distinction with Adaptation Displacement, and clean the complaining and misuse from the wicks and examples.
Do we have any other proposals, or is it time for a crowner?
I can't think of any other options. Start up a crowner.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportCan't an example be both? In which case, the fact that an example also belongs under Displacement doesn't mean it's misuse to see it under Inkstain...
The whole thing is definitely iffy, but I can definitely see a difference between adaptation that makes people forget about the original (displacement), and adaptation which permanently changes how people view the work (a neutral version of inkstain).
Displacement would be a common cause of "changed-view", so you'd expect a lot of overlap, but wouldn't be the only cause, so there wouldn't quite be a sup/super-trope relationship here (which was my first thought).
Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.Crowner created. Hollering for a hook.
It's hooked.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportA slightly related question: do we have a sequel equivalent to Ink-Stain Adaptation?
MAX POWER KILL JEEEEEEEEWWWWWCalling crowner in favor of rename, so we'll need to think of some alternative names.
Only name that comes to mind here is Emphasized Adaptation.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportJust to throw a couple of others out there:
I like Audience-Coloring Adaptation.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?Audience-Coloring Adaptation sounds good. Or perhaps Audience Perception Coloring Adaptation for completeness' sake.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?
As far as I can see, Ink-Stain Adaptation is nothing more than "Adaptation Displacement with more complaining." I've done some cleanup of the obvious shoehorning, "arguable" or "general" examples and Zero Context Examples, and running down the remaining example list:
Findings:
Recommendation: Merge the good examples that aren't already there to Adaptation Displacement and make this a redirect. They're seriously the same thing, except that Ink-Stain Adaptation has a negative spin.