Duplicate Trope (Alt Names Crowner 29th October 2016): Ink Stain Adaptation

As far as I can see, Ink-Stain Adaptation is nothing more than "Adaptation Displacement with more complaining." I've done some cleanup of the obvious shoehorning, "arguable" or "general" examples and Zero Context Examples, and running down the remaining example list:

• Pokemon: Substantially the same as the Adaptation Displacement entry.
• Yu-Gi-Oh: Ditto.
• Dredd: Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• Gojira / Godzilla: Ditto.
• Frankenstein: Ditto.
• Lord of the Rings: Not An Example, really. Yes, the movies are hugely popular, but the books (taken together) are the second-best-selling book in history after the Bible. A couple of popular movies don't erase that from public consciousness.
• Conan the Barbarian: Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• Superman: Ditto.
• John Carter: Ditto.
• Dragonball Evolution: Not An Example; the only people who ever think of the live-action movie any more are anime or manga fans, who either despise it or consider it So Bad, It's Good. It certainly hasn't had any lasting effect on public perception of the franchise.
• Howard the Duck: Substantially the same as the Adaptation Displacement entry.
• Ang Lee's Hulk: Not An Example; it may have played its part in hurting Hulk's box-office draw, but people are far more likely to think of either the MCU Hulk or the old television version than this version.
• Willy Wonka: Substantially the same as the Adaptation Displacement entry.
• Warriors: Substantially the same as the Adaptation Displacement entry.
• Tranformers: A less-accurate version of the Adaptation Displacement entry, which correctly points out that the franchise started as a toy line before moving on to other media.
• Zorro: Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• The Bible: Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• Princess Bride: Confusing example. Can't quite tell what it's trying to say.
• Batman: Not An Example, although I'm sure it certainly seemed that way for a long, long time. It turns out that the Adam West series' effect on public perception of Batman was NOT irrevocable, and nowadays it's a toss-up whether a random person on the street would think of that, Batman '89, the Animated Series version, the Nolanverse version, or even one of any number of comics versions.
• Wonder Woman: Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• Power Rangers: Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• Masked Rider: Very confusing entry, not entirely sure what it's trying to say.
• Warehouse 13: In-universe example. Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• Spelunker: Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• Thief: Just complaining. A lot of it.
• Super Friends: Contradicts itself; starts out saying that Aquaman will never escape his Super Friends incarnation, then goes on to list a bunch of counter-examples. Also doesn't talk about the original version at all, which is what this is supposed to be all about: the original version getting Covered Up.
• TMNT: Substantially the same as the Adaptation Displacement entry.
• He-Man: Not present on the Adaptation Displacement page, but could easily be moved with little or no change.
• Aladdin: Substantially the same as the Adaptation Displacement entry.
• My Little Pony: A less-accurate version of the Adaptation Displacement entry, which correctly points out that it's the toys that are the originals, before any other media.
• How to Train Your Dragon: Substantially the same as the Adaptation Displacement entry, although this version is more detailed and better-written.

Findings:

• Substantially the same as an existing Adaptation Displacement entry: 8
• Not present on Adaptation Displacement, but could be moved over with little trouble: 7
• Other (entry so confusing that I couldn't parse it, likely non-example but not so clear-cut that I felt comfortable deleting it outright, etc.): 6

Recommendation: Merge the good examples that aren't already there to Adaptation Displacement and make this a redirect. They're seriously the same thing, except that Ink-Stain Adaptation has a negative spin.

Nice rundown of the example list. Opened.

I find that the difference is that Adaptation Displacement seems to be about what work in the franchise people think was the original, while Ink-Stain Adaptation is more about people thinking the entire franchise is like that, even if they know there are previous versions. They're similar, but not exactly the same (even ignoring the negative spin).

^ That's a fair point, actually. I'd still consider them similar enough to be worth lumping, but reworking them to emphasize the distinction could be another valid option.

I'd originally intended to file this TRS under "complaining" as opposed to "duplicate trope," but as I went through the examples, I found that most of them are surprisingly complaining-free considering the negative connotation of the trope name and the negative spin of the trope description. If we do keep Ink-Stain Adaptation, at minimum we should rewrite the description to be less negative. We could consider a name change as well, although at present there's probably not enough evidence of misuse to justify it. When I have the time I'll do a wick check to see if the wicks have the same general tone as the on-page examples or if there's a difference there we should be aware of.

Wick check time:

• Trivia.Tank Girl: Zero Context Example. Also incorrectly filed under "Trivia" as opposed to YMMV.
• Franchise.Zorro: Substantially the same as an Adaptation Displacement entry. No complaining.
• Characters.Saint Seiya Gold Saints: Misuse, talking about the portrayal of a character, not a franchise. Also incorrectly indented, sharing a line with a semi-related trope.
• YMMV.Fantastic Four 2005: Zero Context Example, complaining.
• YMMV.Batman And Robin: Zero Context Example, complaining, and misuse. Bad as this movie was, it certainly didn't irrevocably color public perception of the Batman franchise as a whole. Nowadays it's a footnote in Batman history.
• YMMV.Wraeththu: Complaining, Zero Context Example, misuse. Just says "this adaptation is really bad" without attempting to show that it also colored public perception of the franchise.
• YMMV.Robin Hood 2010: Complaining, Zero Context Example, misuse. Just says "this adaptation is really bad" without attempting to show that it also colored public perception of the franchise.
• Trivia.Fist Of The North Star: Passing mention without enough context to judge whether it's misuse.
• YMMV.Robin: Pot Hole referring to the Batman And Robin complain-y misuse Zero Context Example above.
• Creator.TV Tokyo: Misuse, complaining. Uses it as a Pot Hole to refer to "really bad adaptation."
• YMMV.Pokemon: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
• BrokenBase.Anime And Manga: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
• Laconic.Fantastic Four 2005: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
• YMMV.Lucifer: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
• YMMV.Popeye: Correct-ish use, but very complain-y.
• Characters.MCU Others: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
• Main.Politically Incorrect Hero: Correct use, referring to an adaptation that made a chance that stuck.
• YMMV.Superman II: Correct use, referring to an adaptation that made a chance that stuck.
• YMMV.The Ugly Barnacle: Zero Context Example
• Main.Unbuilt Trope: A passing above-the-line mention, not enough context to determine use.
• Comic Book.Watchmen: Misuse, referring to an Expy in an entirely different franchise rather than an actual adaptation.
• YMMV.Sonic Boom: Complaining, Zero Context Example, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation."
• YMMV.Star Wars: Complaining, misuse; uses it to mean "really bad adaptation." Extra misuse because it's not even an adaptation, it's a prequel.
• Main.Never Live It Down: An above-the-line "compare" note in a trope description; not enough context to determine use. Given the negative connotation of Never Live It Down, I'd say it counts as complaining.
• They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.Film: Correct use, referring to an adaptation that colors perceptions of the franchise.

Findings:

• Zero Context Example: 7 (28%)
• Complaining: 15 (60%)
• Misuse: 14 (56%)
• Correct-ish use: 4 (16%)
• Other (above-the-line mentions or Pot Holes without enough context to judge use, etc.): 3 (12%)

edited 27th Aug '16 2:47:13 PM by HighCrate

Based on the above, I'd say my initial concerns that this is a complaining magnet are more justified than I thought. I have to wonder if the relative lack of complaining in the main example list isn't due to a previous cleanup effort that didn't get far enough to clean the wicks.

It could also be that in general, at least I find that wicks are more prone to misuse and other types bad example writing than the main trope page (character pages in particular are prone to needing cleanups).

For complaining, yeah, the wicks certainly have that. A rename and slight description rewrite would probably help if we decided to not merge.

If we merge them, what would you propose the definition be? Including both as variants of the same trope, taking only one of them, or some other mix?

Adaptation Displacement, once you get past the Example As Thesis, is defined in its trope description as, "the phenomenon by which a derivative work becomes successful enough to overshadow the original work completely."

I'd say that's broad enough to encompass both "an adaptation so popular that people think it's the original" (how you defined it above, and how many of the examples and wicks seem to use it) and "an adaptation to a long-running franchise which irrevocably colors the public's perception of the franchise as a whole" (which is how Ink-Stain Adaptation is defined according to its description).

edited 27th Aug '16 3:50:25 PM by HighCrate

I vote against the merge, as they're distinct enough concepts. Ink-Stain might need rename to deemphasizes the potential complaint aspects of it.

Anything that's used correctly only 16 percent of the time should just get cut. If someone wants to do it properly from scratch, sure, but right now, this is just a trash pile.

That works too.

I'm just against a merge is all.

Yep, axe it.

Gonna go with not cut, then.

So it seems like the options under discussion are:

• Cut Ink-Stain Adaptation and all wicks and salt the earth.
• Move Ink-Stain Adaptation examples that would fit under Adaptation Displacement there, make it a redirect to that trope, and cut or move all wicks.
• Rename Ink-Stain Adaptation to something with a less negative connotation, rewrite the description to be less complain-y and to emphasize the distinction with Adaptation Displacement, and clean the complaining and misuse from the wicks and examples.

Do we have any other proposals, or is it time for a crowner?

I can't think of any other options. Start up a crowner.

Can't an example be both? In which case, the fact that an example also belongs under Displacement doesn't mean it's misuse to see it under Inkstain...

The whole thing is definitely iffy, but I can definitely see a difference between adaptation that makes people forget about the original (displacement), and adaptation which permanently changes how people view the work (a neutral version of inkstain).

Displacement would be a common cause of "changed-view", so you'd expect a lot of overlap, but wouldn't be the only cause, so there wouldn't quite be a sup/super-trope relationship here (which was my first thought).

Crowner created. Hollering for a hook.

A slightly related question: do we have a sequel equivalent to Ink-Stain Adaptation?

Calling crowner in favor of rename, so we'll need to think of some alternative names.

Only name that comes to mind here is Emphasized Adaptation.

Just to throw a couple of others out there:

Overshadowing Adaptation Iconic Adapatation

Adaptation That Codifies Franchise

Franchise Codifying Adaptation

Colouring Adaptation or Audience-Colouring Adaptation.

I like Audience-Coloring Adaptation.

Audience-Coloring Adaptation sounds good. Or perhaps Audience Perception Coloring Adaptation for completeness' sake.