Condemned by History cleanup thread

IE is actually if not dead, then dying - Microsoft has stopped developing it, and it has been replaced by a new browser in Windows 10. But it fails the "universally loved" criterion - it used to be very widely used just because it came with Windows, and not everybody hated it, but it always had a large number of detractors.

edited 25th Nov '17 7:19:29 AM by GnomeTitan

Perhaps. My guess is that the hatred was just in memetic levels. And that version 6, with all the outdated features by the time Firefox came around had been the reason why IE in general was gradually hated.

edited 25th Nov '17 7:34:04 AM by alnair20aug93

If something is "memetic", it's probably not universal.

People are trying to add Family Guy, which I keep removing because it's a Wall of Text and it was deemed not an example in the last big clean up. My impression is that a work has to be canceled or over before it can be judged to qualify or not. Is that right?

I don't think Family Guy qualifies as Deader Than Disco because it's still airing, it still has an audience, and its earlier seasons are still fondly remembered. And even if it did, the entry on it is a giant wall of text that can definitely be trimmed down.

edited 9th Dec '17 2:17:07 PM by ADrago

If I may suggest, the description doesn't actually state that currently running shows/other works don't count. It should probably spell that out.

EDIT: I went ahead and added a note to this effect.

edited 10th Dec '17 8:43:47 AM by DracMonster

Regarding the Benny Hill example I don't think Germans Love David Hasselhoff cancels out Deader Than Disco.

Or at least that something that is genuinely Deader Than Disco in it's home country (in this case The Benny Hill Show in Britain) is listable, maybe with a note saying it is still popular and admired elsewhere.

I'm not at all convinced it's DTD even in its home country. I've heard many prominent UKish comedians speak fondly of it, despite its warts, and the Other Wiki article suggests that despite not having been aired in years, the backlash is somewhere between minimal and non-existent.

And I say this as someone who always thought it was awful.

edited 10th Dec '17 12:50:55 PM by Xtifr

Friendship is Witchcraft:

• Downplayed. While the series does still has fans, it's definitely has suffered this, especially with Sherclop Pones being busy with other projects these days. Not help is the fact the series has suffered from immense copyright strikes thanks to Youtube's copyright system, as well as receiving a heavy amount of thrashing from several reviewers and Sherclop Pones's reactions to people not liking their series.

Was it ever massively popular? Seems like a shoehorn.

If it still has a significant amount of fans, that means it isn't an example. Cut.

Found this on YMMV.The Wanted:

• Deader Than Disco: The enormous breakout of One Direction and rumors about their bad attitudes destroyed their U.S. popularity almost immediately after "Glad You Came" dropped off the charts.

Should we be moving this to Long Term?

I agree that this should be moved to long-term because there's still plenty of misuse to clean up and look out for.

The Babysitters Club

• The books were once the basis of a popular Cash-Cow Franchise, but their popularity diminished as time went on, and they have since turned into Snark Bait. There were several attempts at reviving the series, but nearly all of them failed. This is largely due to Values Dissonance, as detailed below. The series does have a steady fandom, but most of its fans grew up reading the books when they were new.

Already discussed and cut on pg 32. There's a big Periphery Hatedom which loves to mock it, but all the evidence shows it's still fairly popular.

eta: "Popularity diminished" is nowhere near what this trope requires.

edited 17th Dec '17 12:35:55 PM by Xtifr

anyone else thinks the continuing problems with DTD may be the result of Missing Supertrope syndrome? Currently there's no straight equivalent of Vindicated by History (which currently doesn't enforce the same stringent requirements for something to be universally beloved and known by the layman. tbh I think it could use some cleanup) for "Medias that were universally acclaimed at release but today are far more contentious or universally derided" so people shoeorn examples of that to DTD.

edited 22nd Dec '17 2:09:44 PM by Glowsquid

I think it gets misuse because people are always looking for excuses to bash things they don't like. But this isn't a site for bashing stuff, so I don't think we need a broader supertrope for "stuff a lot of people don't like any more."

(It's also got an extremely unclear name; a common term in the wild, but without a particularly specific meaning.)

I was just going to ask that! (If the opposite if Vindicated by History isn't Deader Than Disco, what is it)?

If there shouldn't be one, I get it - pages that attract complaining or are inherently negative are often deleted for that very reason (see Wall Banger, for instance, and many others. Like They Just Didn't Care, which was supposed to be about poor production values like the Trope Namer, but decomposed into "this thing is bad and I hate it" so it was renamed and redefined as Creator's Apathy.)

edited 28th Dec '17 7:24:43 AM by Lymantria

Should we start a TRS thread at this point?

Perhaps. What should the OP say?

Note that we already have Fallen Creator for creators whose reputation has declined, it's pretty close to the misuse of Deader Than Disco, although it's a locked Darth Wiki Flame Bait trope.

edited 28th Dec '17 7:37:37 AM by Lymantria

It's worth noting that while the example subpage cleanup was thorough and well-supported, the wick cleanup never got very far. I got through A-C before getting distracted before other projects, and if anybody else made a systematic attempt at it, they didn't document their efforts here.

As I see it, our options for further action are:

• Finish wick cleanup and see if that helps.
• Move this to Long-Term Projects (not mutually exclusive with #1).
• Start a TRS thread (necessary only if we're considering more drastic measures like a name change or Example Sectionectomy).

Personally, I'm in favor of moving this to Long-Term Projects at minimum, since bad examples are likely to keep cropping up if left alone and will need to be handled. If somebody wants to make a TRS thread, I'll certainly take part, but realistically I'm not up to spearheading such an effort myself any time soon, schedule-wise.

edited 28th Dec '17 9:37:14 AM by HighCrate

FWIW, some have mentioned that if we were to start a TRS thread, leaving the wicks intact might make the thread more likely to be opened.

And yet nobody's seemed in any particular hurry to start a TRS thread either.

Edit: I take that back: one was started and never opened almost a year ago, although that one didn't include a wick check, just one sentence saying that this thread had brought up the possibility of a name change without so much as a courtesy link here. One with a better OP would presumably stand a better chance of getting off the ground.

I'd consider either option preferable to doing nothing, although I'm not convinced a name change is the answer either.

edited 28th Dec '17 9:56:40 AM by HighCrate

I'm not sure a name change would help, either, but I do think the name is part oof the reason there's so much misuse. It's one of those conversational-phrase names that make people think they know what the trope is about.