Cyborg 009 vs Devilman

Surprised no one has talked about this:

Holy shit!

....Now I gotta actually start watching both series to get ready for this.

Talk about the ultimate clash! Science and technology vs Magic and the Occult.

Demons vs Cyborgs!

That's just some crazy shit!

.....You're right. We should be talking about this.

You're supposed to read Devilman, not watch it.

Oh. Right.

You can watch the OV As too, but they're incomplete.

Cyborg 009 should be read too. The 2001 anime is a good adaptation.

edited 14th Sep '15 3:57:09 PM by Goblinator

Even if I'm only barely familiar with Cyborg 009, THERE ARE NO WORDS THAT CAN SUFFICIENTLY REPRESENT MY HYPE

barely remember cyborg 009

More Cyborg 009 is always good in my eyes. I guess I should figure out what a Devilman is.

It's basically Go Nagai's main epic thing he did before creating Mazinger Z, and has a lot of Unbuilt Tropes that got aped in later shonen series (like Superpowered Evil Side).

Also, it will completely break your soul. In a good way.

Plus, Neo Devilman is Awesome Art incarnate.

edited 14th Sep '15 7:03:29 PM by Demongodofchaos2

As someone who's only started reading Cyborg 009, I guess there's no better place to ask this. I already posted this elsewhere, so I'll just copy&paste it over here.

"..why did Black Ghost even bothering abducting random strangers to experiment on in the first place? They could have just used some of their own men, who would probably be much more reliable and trust-worthy than some yahoos that hadn't even heard of Black Ghost before now, much less be willing to become cyborgs. As far as I can tell, there isn't much reason if any given for this. I know that this needs to happen in order to have a story, but if a crucial story element makes you wonder why this story should even exist (at least as it is written,) then maybe there shouldn't even be a story. "

Does anyone have any answers to this? Everything else is pretty darn good so far, so it baffles me as to why the very plot element this story hinges upon seems to fall apart at the seams when held up to closer scrutiny.

edited 14th Sep '15 9:25:49 PM by kkhohoho

I believe it's because Black Ghost, at least in the modern ititerations is Skull Man, and heavily implied to be Joes dad.

...Okay, but that only explains 009. That doesn't explain the other 8 cyborgs.(Except for Ivan, who was a child of one of the scientists.) For all of the others, Black Ghost still could have just used his own men. And not to mention, the men who abducted Joe didn't even know who he was, only taking him over the other guy lying on the floor because they could. There were no orders issued to bring Joe in specifically, as far as I can tell.

edited 14th Sep '15 8:05:15 PM by kkhohoho

They wanted invincible cyborgs - who better to convert than the main characters?

Of course, they promptly made the mistake of believing that they could actually CONTROL said main characters for any real stretch of time...

But I do get what you're saying. I mean, at least the Showa-era Kamen Rider shows had some better excuses - Takeshi Hongo was a badass super-genius and they wanted to brainwash him, but he escaped before they could quite get to that point. Jo Shigeru actually volunteered for Black Satan to turn him into a cyborg... so that he could immediately turn around and fuck them over as revenge for them killing his best friend ; IIRC Kotaro Minami and his brother were sold out to Golgom so they could jointly serve as The Antichrist (needless to say, Kotaro was having none of that). Meanwhile, V3 and Amazon were made into transhumans by the forces of good - the former at his own request, even.

edited 14th Sep '15 9:20:43 PM by EvaUnit01

Yeah, that thought occurred to me too. Seriously, you arrange to have all of the cyborgs together on a beach while you're still there, and the only possible sort of security that you have is... none at all, or at least none that could reach you before the cyborgs put a bullet in your brains. (I mean, I'm glad they didn't, because then they'd be rather morally ambiguous to say the least, but still.) The only thing I can figure it that the Professor somehow arranged for any and all security to not be near where the scientists and cyborgs were, though I'm not sure how he would clear that with the head of Black Ghost. (Who might be a moron if he knew about this and cleared it anyway, but who knows?) I still like the manga, but there are some noticeable holes in the story, though I'm willing to give the series some slack because it was still a relatively early entry in it's respective medium and was still figuring some things out. And of course, the characters are still interesting, the action is still kick-ass, and the simplistic art style is actually pretty darn charming, so there's still a lot to like here. I just wish the overall plot was a bit more air-tight, is all.

edited 15th Sep '15 7:38:15 AM by kkhohoho

Yeah.

From the sounds of things, these dudes didn't even have a way to ensure their Phlebotinum -borgs didn't turn on them, and that's just fucking sloppy.

I mean, Shocker, Black Satan, and Golgom have the excuse of not getting the chance to actually do the brainwashing part (hell, since as pointed out, Jo Shigeru volunteered, so they had no reason to think they'd need to brainwash him).

These black Ghost dudes aren't too bright.

edited 14th Sep '15 9:36:07 PM by HandsomeRob

A Cyborg 009 vs Devilman manga was announced recently. The plot is not known so far.

Mutters dark things about God's War.

But yeah, the Kamen Rider comparisons have it about right.

Anyway! This, this is going to be so freaking awesome.

edited 15th Sep '15 2:52:55 PM by Guy01

Holy fucking shit! I can't believe I am late on this announcement. A crossover between the series about a team of superpowers cyborgs that made me into such a huge weeb back in Elementary/Middle school and the series about an empowered devil hero who introduce me to the crazy awesome world that is manga!

If it's anything like that Detective Conan/Lupin III and Arrow/Flash crossover I am hyped as fuck right about now!

You know, after reading my previous post I don't think it accurately sums up how hype I am for this crossover. So I present an analogy.

Imagine, if you were, a comic book fan back in the 60s. You were interested in the newly upstart company known as Marvel Comics who has characters and stories you can relate to (as well as the Awesome Art provided by Jack Kirby). One day, you decided to pick up a copy of your favorite series the Fantastic Four and much to your surprise you find The Incredible Hulk on the cover of the issue! You just could not believe the shit you are seeing, your favorite team of dysfuntional heroes taking on the badass monsterous anti-hero in one crossover you never expect would happen given how normally self-contained these stories are! Even the cover page is excited about it with the caption reading "The Fantastic Four and Hulk At Last", basically telling you that shit is going to go down BUY THIS GODDAMN COMIC!!!

Yeah, this is what this Cyborg 009/Devilman crossover is in a nutshell: an anime version of that Fantastic Four/Incredible Hulk crossover! I am just amazed that they just now saw the awesome potential in such crossover.

To make things better, you should know that Go Nagai was an assistant to Shotaro Ishinomori.

So it's not just a clash between any two manga artists. It's a clash between master and student, and that's why I think this crossover is an awesome idea (Even if I wanted a proper Devilman manga adaptation too).

Taken literally from Go Nagai's Wikipedia page:

"While passing his ronin year in a prep school in order to aim at the Waseda University, he suffered a severe case of diarrhea for 3 weeks. Aware of his own mortality, he wanted to leave some evidence that he had lived, by doing something that he liked as a child: working on manga. He was determined to create one work of manga in what he thought were his last months. As Nagai prepared for the task, he went to the hospital, where he was diagnosed with catarrh of the colon, and soon healed. But this was the turning point in his life. Convinced that he would continue working on manga, he stopped attending school after three months and started living as a ronin.

With the help of his brother Yasutaka, he created his first manga works. Aiming to be a manga artist, despite the fact that his mother opposed his manga career, he submitted his works for publication finding many rejected. It is said that when the young Nagai submitted his tables to publishers, his mother secretly convinced publishers to reject them. However, his work was noticed by Shōnen Sunday, which contacted Shotaro Ishinomori. Thanks to some trial manga he created with the help of his brother Yasutaka, he was finally accepted in the studio of Ishinomori in 1965.

The trial manga was about a science fiction ninja, and was a prototype for a different story, Kuro no Shishi. Nagai was 19 years old when he made this work; it started at 15 or 16 pages and ended up being 88 pages long after a year, and was untitled at that time. Ishinomori saw this work and praised Nagai for it, but commented that the design was too chunky and should improve it a little. Two or three days later, Nagai was invited to become an assistant with Ishinomori and this work was forgotten until 2007, when it was published for the first time, in the magazine Comic Ran TWINS Sengoku Busho Retsuden (コミック乱 TWINS 戦国武将列伝) by LEED, under the name Satsujinsha (殺刃者(さつじんしゃ)). His professional career began in 1967, despite the opposition of his mother."

edited 17th Sep '15 10:25:10 AM by Goblinator

<Manly Tears>

Opening and Ending

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCSA2yl5DyE

As a Nagai fan, I'm definitely looking forward to this.

OTOH, I just saw the 009 Re: Cyborg movie, and while I admire it for its action and animation, the plot left me confused, ESPECIALLY the ending. Can anyone explain it?

I just saw it recently myself, and had the same reaction. Best I can figure out is that seemingly logically impossible/unexplainable shit like angel skeletons prompts human beings to hallucinate God and induces them to act on His behalf. The kicker is whether people are driven by His Voice to help people (009, by the end) or to hurt them (most other people).