Creator page standards

People have been saying they'd make this thread to iron them out in Ask The Tropers the other week, and then nothing happened. It seems many Tropers have differing views on what a Creator page should be, with even the moderators disagreeing with each other over what should be the standard on Creator pages. The only consensus is a page that is one line or two "e.g. Burt Reynolds is an actor who works in film and television." can be cut. The sooner we reach a consensus on this issue, the sooner we can get the nonconforming ones up to scratch or cut them.

Keeper of The Celestial Flame

Well, that sounds like a stub anyway which is unacceptable for any page.

Obviously, we're not IMDB/etc. so we don't need a lot of detailed information on an actor's biography. The creator page obviously works as an "index" of their works, this is about half of the reason to have the page. The other half would be listing tropes relevant to their works.

If a work has a page then we want tropes pertaining to it on that page rather than the creator's. For example, Stephen King shouldn't have tropes relating to Randall Flagg and what he does in The Stand on his page—however tropes about Flagg/Walter/etc being a recurring character across his books are fine on King's page.

It depends a lot on the medium. We don't want every trope Stephen King has ever used on his page, however it's fine for a band like Oasis. There's just a world of difference between the use of tropes in a typical novel and tropes in a typical album.

And obviously, their YMMV page is for their works, not them as a person. It's fine to grumble about Orson Scott Card's novels but his politics are off limits.

edited 24th Sep '14 9:26:17 PM by Rotpar

"But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you." - O'Brien, 1984

Double post for new stuff:

I remember seeing this topic come up on ATT and I think Fighteer pointed at a creator page and said it was a good example. I don't recall which page it was.

Let's take a quick look at Stephen King since I brought him up.

We have a brief description of him and hius place in culture. It doesn't go into biographical info like his father leaving him or his career as a teacher before writing took off.

The page has a laundry list of his works with links to their pages. Now we also have a dedicated index for his works in addition to this list. I don't know if having both is redundant or not. I need to read up on my indexing.

We have a list of tropes he regularly uses in his work. There is some cleaning to be done, some Zero Context Examples and at a few work-specific tropes. His YMMV page is about his works and his business and not something like "Stephen King is racist"—which is funny, because he notes himself he gets hate mail accusing him of racism from his works. At any rate, "people find racism in his books" would be valid YMMV material versus "Stephen King said something racist on Twitter".

Cleaning aside, his page looks pretty solid. Tons of info because he's big, successful, and prolific. Not meandering around explaining about where he was born, etc. His tropes are mostly related to his entire body of work.

edited 24th Sep '14 9:25:15 PM by Rotpar

"But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you." - O'Brien, 1984

In my mind, the main necessary thing in a creator page is a list of works they have made or participated in. Another good thing to have is an explanation (in trope list form or description form) of their role in culture and tropes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Bands are now typed as work pages, and have to have a trope list. We tend to not have album pages but band pages (there are some people making album pages, but there aren't enough on the wiki.) Part of their function is as a creator page, but the tropes should be about their work.

Keeper of The Celestial Flame

There seems to be little point in troping individual songs and/or albums, partly because of the scale involved and partly because most people would probably think to start their search with the artist's name.

Musicians aside, I see the primary function of creator articles as a way to locate work articles associated with that creator. Having a short write-up is a good idea, of course, but I don't see the value in requiring a trope list. It would seem to encourage shoehorning, in the sense of, "I want to make an article for Eddie Murphy, but I have to think up some tropes or it'll get cut."

edited 25th Sep '14 6:14:19 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I'll have to keep in mind that bands are works, John Lennon is a creator and the Beatles are a work then.

That I'm aware of the only albums that get work pages are rock operas/concept albums. The albums that have narratives or definite versus "Album X has an Intercourse with You song and another with Word Salad Lyrics".

In that case, I'd say that wicks to their works would be the primary requirement for a creator page. Tropes aren't necessary—no cutlist worries without them—but they can still be handy. Per your example, the Eddie Murphy article should have tropes related to his career rather than his specific works. Acting for Two and Black and Nerdy are valid tropes for his page, the Ass Shove and The Casanova examples should go on pages if we have them.

If a work doesn't have a page, do we want those tropes on the creator page?

edited 25th Sep '14 9:36:25 AM by Rotpar

"But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you." - O'Brien, 1984

Yes, that's the general rule.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Let me rephrase that, if this discussion leads to us rethinking creator pages do we want to keep work-specific stuff on the page?

"But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you." - O'Brien, 1984

If the works in question don't have pages yet, listing their tropes on the creator page seems fine.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Assuming the creator is responsible for the trope. In the case of an author, this will almost certainly be the case. In the case of an actor, not necessarily so. (It more likely comes from the director or screenwriter.)

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Clearly, we're talking about content creators here, not actors and such. The term "Creator" is inclusive. In the case of actors, one can list tropes that their roles are well-known for.

edited 26th Sep '14 5:32:18 AM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

"Well-known" is subjective, and subjective tropes aren't allowed for Creator pages.

Tropes that apply to several characters they've played, to put it in a different way. Sort of like expanding on Typecast with what tropes that type of role comes with.

edited 21st Oct '14 8:22:01 PM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!

"Well-known" may be subjective, but we're working on shared knowledge, here. That's literally the purpose of a wiki.

edited 21st Oct '14 8:27:48 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"