DC Extended Universe

It's worth noting that while a modern take, DCAU Joker - especially during the time of BTAS - was largely based off of how Joker appeared during the 70's / under O'Neil. With the exception of Batman Beyond, maybe.

edited 3rd May '15 12:03:57 PM by KnownUnknown

I wonder what Hardy is talking about.

He's going to be the head of the Newsboy Legion.

Oh good, we're not on about Internet Backdraft anymore.

So what role is Tom Hardy hinting at? A TV series with a DC character who's "prime real estate"? Probably a list of superheroes who could do with a live-action series.

edited 11th May '15 4:24:49 PM by Soble

Phil Lord talks the Flash.

The Rock talks a little more about Black Adam as an Anti-Villain, and says he's fueled by "Righteous anger."

Possibly pointless rumor is probably pointless.

I don't know about pointless. I mean, wasn't the Wonder Woman movie supposed to be set in World War I or the Korean War?

One rumor was they were trying to decide between World War I and the Crimean War.

Having finally sat down and watched Winter Soldier... how can people complain about Superman killing one genocidal maniac when Cap and friends kill so many lesser guys?

Let's not start that again, please.

I'm okay with starting it since I've actually seen the movie now. With all the deets fresh in my mind, nobody can make any convincing arguments against this.

I don't recall Cap ever having a Thou Shalt Not Kill code. He's a soldier anyway. It's clear to anyone with sense that he's killed before even if most of those were kill or be killed situations.

With great power comes great responsibility. Cap has less power than Superman, therefore he has less ability to hold back that power and less potential for collateral damage. He's also not nearly as invulnerable. Cap has to kill because his life is at stake. Superman is in much less danger, so it's not nearly as often a choice of "my life or yours."

Also worth noting is that quite often his victims are subject to Tap on the Head. The agents in that elevator fight walked out fine. I think only Black Widow explicitly killed anyone, and she's specifically an assassin.

edited 23rd May '15 9:43:37 AM by Tuckerscreator

90 percent of the complaints come from a belief that Superman has never killed and will never kill, absolutely regardless of the circumstances. That the powers of plot will conform around him and prevent him from ever having to take that step. Superman has killed before, and many times has been driven to kill but the plot manages to give him a semi-clean conscious. ^note He actually tries to kill Darkseid in the Justice League episode "Twilight" and more or less succeeds by virtue of cutting off Darkseid's escape via Boom Tube from Brainiac's exploding base, Batman cut the fight short to prevent Superman from dying too.

That's the real reason Captain America gets a pass, he doesn't have the same stigma of not killing his enemies. Although, in fact after Age of Ultron I thought they took the whole "What about the civilians" angle to the opposite extreme, it was almost literally a Deus ex Machina (Fury showing up) and glossing over the actual civilian deaths that had to have occurred during the fight that prevented the whole thing from being a straight up Downer Ending.

Nope, the Avengers get a pass because they actually try to get civilians out of the way if they can. Even while being under fire from all sides Cap tries to get away from the people in the bus before they get hit and Black Widow is screaming at the civilians to get away as fast as possible.

Cap specifically gets a pass because he has a really clear stance on killing, uttered in his first movie: "I don't want to kill anyone but I don't like bullies." He doesn't like killing but he does it if he sees is as necessary evil.

Superman in Man of Steel doesn't get a pass for two reasons: One he never makes any effort to get civilians out of the crossfire. Even when Zod is specifically hunting him he flies right into the city, and at no point does he show any concern for anything which gets destroyed during the fight.

And two, his stance on killing is never even specified in the movie. So we don't even know if this specific Superman kills or not. Then he does and it is treated like ground-broking important moment - for five seconds. After that he makes out with Lois and what the act meant to him is never addressed.

I honestly don't think that the audience would mind the killing that much if there were a proper build up and a proper conclusion to it. But it feels like it just got thrown into the movie for shock effect.

And I don't get why people bring it up again and again by comparing Man of Steel to other movies. For one, different heroes different rules. Some Superheroes kill others don't. It depends on what is already established in-universe and how the act of killing is addressed when it happens in a "he doesn't do that" context.

In fact, there are people (me included) who actually do criticise one episode of the Daredevil TV-Show for similar reasons. There is a whole episode which deals with the question should Daredevil kill or not, which strangely glosses over the fact that a character dies during a fight with him in the very same episode and it never gets addressed. So no, this is not a "marvel gets a pass" matter. Man of Steel simply handled the subject matter badly.

Fury showing up had actually a deeper meaning. But that's something we can discuss in the MCU thread or privately, if you want.

edited 23rd May '15 11:08:48 AM by Swanpride

"at no point does he show any concern for anything which gets destroyed during the fight."

He was counseling people to stay inside the houses away from the fighting when battling with the other Kryptonians started.

And besides... why would he show concern during the fight. He is already fighting to protect the Earth from Zod and co that's reason enough to show he cared.

"And two, his stance on killing is never even specified in the movie. So we don't even know if this specific Superman kills or not. Then he does and it is treated like ground-broking important moment - for five seconds."

You remember that scene with the bullies? What about that one time where he retaliated to the trucker through his truck and not the man himself? Those two scenes get the message he disliked hurting people - killing being an extension of that- well enough. In fact, I am absolutely sure the scene with the bully was put there to foreshadow that Clark has the power to end things, it was put there specifically to foreshadow he can kill someone.

"After that he makes out with Lois and what the act meant to him is never addressed."

I am afraid you have the order of the incidents screwed.

Oh joy, this whole meaningless debate has been kicked up again, with half the stuff just throwing potshots at how the other poster has "misunderstood the situation" and nothing of value will be gained.

Let's move on.

Those scenes showed he was adverse to taking direct action on the person, but I'm not sure I'd used the word dislike. I got the impression he was so scared and careful never really hurt anyone in the first place to develop a dislike, until he fought Zod.

....you know what? You're right. I will stop right now.

I am not sure...I am not sure about anything concerning Superman's character. Which is the main reason the DC Cinematic Universe worries me so much. Because the most important part in throwing in different characters is that the audience gets invested in them.

"great power comes great responsibility"

Literally no soldier Cap fights in the movie is anywhere near a match for him. Completely different from Superman in Man of Steel, where EVERYONE he fought was better than him. And when Cap and Black Widow kill people, they make one liners to the dead people, for reasons!

And I just checked out Guardians of the Galaxy. I guess wholesale slaughter is okay when everyone is smiling about it and there's an upbeat tune. Haha, I love it, maggle! There was a sequence where the villain's guys were running for their lives and getting gunned down from behind by our heroes. Simply beautiful.

edited 23rd May '15 12:13:35 PM by Cruherrx

okay, you obviously are only trolling trying to start another discussion. Honestly, if you really don't get what the problem is, you most likely don't want to understand it

Yeah, don't do that.

My points are completely legitimate. If the bad guys are running away screaming, they aren't going to be fighting anymore. The fact that Chris Pratt and his friends then gun them down from behind while heroic music is playing just gets glossed over. Or the fact that Captain America and Black Widow killed a bunch of guys while making one-liners (to their corpses because who cares? Gotta get those quips in!).

Man of Steel sure sucks for taking the loss of life incurred seriously! Yep, shit movie! 1/10, would not watch!

Seriously, with all the guys spraying bullets indiscriminately in Winter Soldier at that highway showdown, you'd think a bunch of civilians would've gotten shot up. And they always conveniently change the angle whenever a civilian vehicle gets damaged. People are dying; the movie is just not showing it because it's afraid to tackle that point.

edited 23rd May '15 12:22:12 PM by Cruherrx

Because the Guardians of the Galaxy are totally held to the same moral standards as Superman instead of being a bunch of anti-heroes. Totally legit comparison.