Does Not Illustrate: Meaningful Look

I've created the Meaningful Look trope, but I'm struggling to find an appropriate image.

The trope is related to Facial Dialogue but the Meaningful Look is a single look, not an entire conversation nor something which is habitually done (thus separating it from Silent Snarker).

Currently, it's defined as either an in-universe look between characters to communicate a message or a look which is intended for the audience but which isn't an Aside Glance because it doesn't break the fourth wall.

Under consideration is providing two images, one for each type of look. With this in mind, a narrow image would be preferable.

I'm still a bit new to this, so I launched the trope without going through YKTTW (apologies for that). There is now a YKTTW discussion.

That page seems to be working out fine for not having gone through YKTTW originally — well done!

I don't think the current image (this◊, for reference) is at all illustrative, however. I can't tell what meaning she's trying to convey; it looks like a very normal facial expression not directed at anyone. The image on the YKTTW draft◊ is better, since I can gather that she isn't normally, if you will, merciful. I'd support swapping that in pending other suggestions.

Thank you. And done, unless and until a better image can be found.

edited 5th May '13 3:07:40 AM by Melkior

Dude, Where's My Respect? Can I get a little credit? I worked hard on the trope, though the concept is of course Melkior's.

I added a lots of these examples, so I may try looking for pictures. BTW, the Pride and Prejudice (2005) film version has the look particularly expressive and it's clear she's looking at them without words. Unfortunately, all pictures I Googled have just her without those two she's looking at.

-cowers- Sorry, sorry! Thank you for working on it so well! Must I bring burnt offerings to appease your wrath?

I should have given X credit where it's due. He's put in a lot of work and helped a lot to get the page to its current stage.

Um... I think the name should be spelled "Telcontir" with an I, if you took it from LOTR. ;-)

I just noticed your avatar. I'm pleased to see someone else here likes Gunnerkrigg Court. :-)

edited 5th May '13 5:03:56 AM by Melkior

A cookie will do just fine.

Thanks, Melkior. Always happy to help. Only — I'm a woman. Hard to tell on-line, I know, and my last avatar was more obvious. Though I would think my interest in Jane Austen would make it obvious as well.

• Bows and kisses hand* Madame, I am most grateful for your assistance and for your patience with me, a newbie to tropism.

Back on-subject, I've gone with a two-panel version of the original image for now. I'll stick with it unless and until someone (including me) comes up with a better one.

[bows back and blushes]

The image from Pride And Prejudice I had in mind doesn't work as well as I thought it would, because sadly, there is no shot of all the characters together.

I have two suggestions, though. I hope that might work, but the problem with this trope is that you probably need to know what is going on in the story to understand what the look means. I'll understand if you shoot the ideas down. Anyway, I like those. They're from Horatio Hornblower.

1 and 2.

edited 6th May '13 5:30:07 PM by XFllo

I've looked at both of the pics you suggested and I believe that the problem with them is the same as the problem with the current image. You really need to know the story in order to understand the significance of the looks.

If anything, I believe the current two-panel image is better because of the contrast between the expressions on Ember's face between the two panels. That contrast makes her look in the second panel more "meaningful" to the viewer.

It's looking like the choices are leave the current image until a better one is found, or no image until/unless we find a better one.

I agree on the Hornblower pics.

There's a great example from The Sandman but I can't find it anywhere. *sigh* Would the first panel of [1]◊ this be too vague?

It's the same for me as the Hornblower one is for you. Not clear what it's supposed to mean. It has the benefit of having words, but they would be too small in wiki size. :-(

Here is the Georgiana pic I had in mind. She's clearly looking at somebody and not saying anything, but it's bad she's alone in the shot. Anyway: Pride and Prejudice◊.

I kinda like the second Hornblower one. But I'm not really fond of any of them. The current would be good, except it's away from the character it's meant at to the point where the actual expression should be hidden.

Since the current image is of the author-to-audience-via-character variety, it doesn't matter that the reader is the only one who sees the look. That's the whole purpose of having two types of Meaningful Look.

But your confusion is why I asked about possibly making it a separate trope, on the ykttw discussion for the page. Please go there and comment if you believe that the two types of look should be different tropes.

While I agree that her look is expressive, the actual meaning of the look seems ambiguous at best. I still think that the two-panel picture already on the page provides a better example since the meaning of the look is pretty clear. That, after all, is what the trope is all about. The look must be meaningful.

edited 7th May '13 8:12:39 AM by Melkior

It's also more of a head slump. More of an action than a look.

Just saying that the current one feels ambiguous to me as well. But not bad enough for me to argue a pull.

edited 7th May '13 9:01:06 AM by XFllo

I think both of you are focusing on Suntop's expression (front) when the focus is supposed to be on his sister, Ember's expression, as noted in the example on the page and pointed out in the caption (I couldn't get the caption to line up properly on the ykttw page so I left it out).

Is the trope showing any expression at all? She doesn't say anything at all with it. She just reacts.

edited 7th May '13 10:41:26 AM by AnotherDuck

Huh? I don't understand the question. The trope is all about facial expressions (also known as looks) used instead of verbal communication.

And if you can't see that Ember is saying something very meaningful with her look in the second panel, then I'm simply dumbfounded at how anyone could possibly miss it. The change in expression from the first to the second panel just emphasises how meaningful it is.

Or perhaps you're still hung up on the idea that the trope has to always be from one character to another character? As I've stated repeatedly and ad nauseum, the picture is an example of the second type of Meaningful Look which is "from the author to the audience via a character".

She seems surprised. That's it. She doesn't look like she's trying to communicate anything at all.

I have to agree. He looks sad, she looks angry then crestfallen. Nothing else appears to be communicated, between them or between page and reader.

So what's the consensus here? Leave the current image or go with no page image at all?

This seems to be the case of Keep Until Better Image Suggested.

I agree. At this stage I think the current pic is at least slightly better than none and also seems to me to be at least a little better than any other suggestions, due to the contrast between Ember's expressions in the two panels.

Now, how do I mark this thread as closing/closed?

edited 12th May '13 12:47:24 AM by Melkior