Needs Help: Milestone Redo

Really does need help. Launched prematurely, but caught too late to be good on this thread https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13544789560A75740100&page=13#305 Suggested to move this topic here.

Several problems, but I believe the root of them all is it got launched after 3 hours on YKTTW and/or forgotten before/ right after launching.

edited 5th Apr '13 2:59:16 AM by spacemarine50

Copypasting spacemarine's concerns:

Appears it's YKKTW was only a day old and launched with only 1 hat. Also has an incomplete description, examples I'm not sure really belong, and not indexed.

All look somewhat vague to me.

That's from looking at the YKTTW, although there's some speculation involved, as in I couldn't find the exact launch date.

If not that, discuss the other problems (vague description, what does it mean, examples might not fit)

Not sure what the definition is. Possibly (using 1st issue of a Comic Book for example):

• Major event is completely redone. Likely to result in Retcon, Canon Discontinuity, Continuity Snarl, and Negative Continuity
• Shout-Out or Continuity Nod to a major event, always during another major event.

Also, the referenced event must be 1st issue or equivalent for it to count. Could use clarifying and expansion. assuming this doesn't disappear or goes back to YKTTW.

Also need to be indexed, a longer description (ironically, I want to delete half of it now), but the Image Picking thread has been tabled for now, but are not the biggest problems.

edited 5th Apr '13 6:20:30 PM by spacemarine50

Correct me if I did it wrong, but only 9 inbounds (or is it 7 inbounds?) and 8 wicks. More trouble.

edited 6th Apr '13 3:20:01 AM by spacemarine50

Noone wants to comment?

I'll reply tomorrow.

The next time please keep all info in the OP instead of spreading it out.

Sorry. Hard to find spots now, and this thread is after the one in Long Term projects forum. Would've edited the OP, but not a good idea after someone else posted already.

This launched prematurely, but it's a trope. Bookends for a a premiere and an anniversary (rather than bookends for a premiere and a finale).

I regret launching this prematurely last year, and doubly so just kinda forgetting about it after. That was pretty dumb of me. But I stand by the idea that this is tropeable. I disagree with the assessment that it has to be either "the first installment repeats itself in a way that wipes the previous version from continuity" or "the anniversary references the first installment," when how the homage happens is beside the point. If that's not clear than that needs to be fixed.

If there's anything I regret it's making it so specific to the Book Ends idea. Loading an anniversary with continuity references in general is a far more prominent trope and one that's not explicitly covered by Milestone Celebration, a trope which seems to be just "the show acknowledges its hit big numbers in some way."

I'm not so sure. As is, this trope is needlessly narrow, and yet if I expand it (referencing any significant event at any time), it might be People Sit On Chairs.

That is not PSOC. It's something that is part of the storytelling.

We need to decide what this trope is before we can decide on what to do with it. If we cannot define it, cut it.

Not everybody does it. Some series choose to commemorate these things with big story events, rather than Continuity Cavalcades. Some chose not to commemorate milestones at all. Some chose to just chuck a small reference in there.

And besides, we have tropes with so many examples they need to be divided into subpages by medium, which puts them as near to "everybody does it" as makes no odds. This is as much People Sit In Chairs as Five-Man Band is.

Noted. I'm not entirely sure what the problem with the current definition is beyond simply being too narrow, though. That seems like a good place to start.

edited 9th Apr '13 1:37:57 AM by Wackd

It really looks fine to me, the basic concept is in place and easily identifiable. I can't think of any tropes that cover this in general, by it's nature it is a subtrope of Milestone Celebration but the picture illustrates the point quite well. Of course it does seem to be quite a rushed YKTTW with little wiki footprint so there isn't any harm to doing an extensive overhaul if needed.

Truth be told I would have preferred it be less about "milestones" and more about the classic moments or images of the earlier years being referenced for any reason, which is broader than the current trope but more distinctive by not being a straight subtrope of Milestone Celebration.

All of the examples are about the work's first installment. I can edit the definition to suit that, but I won't because then it gets into Too Rare To Trope territory. Hold on, it already does. See post 4 for my 2 possible definitions. Think after the definition is sorted, we need to get more examples.

Also there's Continuity Cavalcade to think about.

edited 9th Apr '13 3:17:38 AM by spacemarine50

We've got Continuity Nod and Mythology Gag for that.

I don't think homaging the past on an anniversary is too rare to trope. I conceded that I may have been overspecific and have no problem with changing that, though.

I'd be for sending it to YKTTW. It takes time and some patience as one must bump it and zero edit, but usually if it's tropeable, people start commenting and the discussion really helps. Should not be a problem for this one.

Let's summarize the problems to fix before we send it back to YKTTW. I don't want this to turn into another Urgent Medical Alert thread.

There is no consensus for the definition of this trope. Is it a retread of the very first issue? A new entry that retcons earlier events? A simple shout out to the first installment? Why especially the first installment?

Reading through and comparing the examples of the two articles, Milestone Redo seems to only exist as a more specific variation of Milestone Celebration. That is the biggest problem.

I say we have two options (neither of which preclude sending it back to YKTTW): make this a proper subtrope of Milestone Celebration or cut the article altogether.

edited 9th Apr '13 12:22:50 PM by EditorPallMall

It's a Milestone Celebration that calls back to premiere. Bookends:Finale::Milestone Redo:Milestone.

It could use a better name - "redo" implies "retcon," which this isn't. But it has a good set of examples, and it's a trope. No need to cut this.

It has sixteen examples most of which are already covered by its "supertrope".

In fact, I say it is a Ridiculously Similar Trope. Phrasing the trope as 'X meets Y' does not help its case.

Some of the examples (comic books and web original) I'll be surprised if there wasn't any retcons.

What did you mean by that?

edited 9th Apr '13 7:00:08 PM by spacemarine50

^^ You could celebrate a milestone in many different ways. You could kill a character, include some other major development like a wedding or birth, invite guest stars, air a Clip Show in place of a normal episode ... this is one type of milestone celebration. We could include all examples in the supertrope; we could also do that with any other trope that has a supertrope.

^ It could involve a retcon, but it needn't. The title seems to imply that the definition is "milestone retcon."

edited 9th Apr '13 4:44:51 PM by AmyGdala

Then you admit this is The Same But More Specific? If this subtrope is to exist we need a sufficiently good reason for it. So far, none has been provided.