The Grand Unified Appearance Trope Clean-up:

And maybe motif as well?

Having a color motif tends to be synonymous with wearing that color.

Alright, then I'll begin dewicking Red-Headed Hero (currently at 2K wicks) after finishing other work in TRS. Courtesy link for anyone willing to participate.

edited 7th Jul '16 4:49:12 PM by Morgenthaler

Depending how they are written you might want to point the wick at Red Is Heroic instead of dewicking.

So it looks like Opulent Outfits exists although it's used as an index and not a trope...

So should we modify that or continue with High Class Finery?

Opulent and High Class are by no means synonymous. While they frequently overlap, they don't necessarily do so, and in some cases, they can be near-opposites. Think of the implications of "gaudy" or "bling". Both suggest opulence, but neither suggests anything resembling high-class.

that seems like a soft split at most.

whether something that is opulent is "gaudy" or "high class" depends on your POV and opinion.

The point is they both indicate wealth or status.

One for combining the two.

Red-Headed Hero is now being dewicked, starting with the redirects. Results are the same as the wick check; 80-90% zero context or not enough context. Examples with sufficient context for red hair indicating heroic character I've changed to Red Is Heroic.

> "whether something that is opulent is "gaudy" or "high class" depends on your POV and opinion."

No, it depends on the POV and opinion of the creator!

In a lot of works, especially fantasy and SF, opulent displays and clothing are explicitly stated to be a marker of the ambitious middle or lower class, with the high class claiming that such displays are beneath them and completely unnecessary.

If we try to merge "high class finery" and "opulent clothing", we'll invite mass confusion, arguing over examples, and possibly even edit wars and conversation on the main page. They may overlap in some cultures, but they're not actually related concepts, and can be (and, in some works, are) directly opposed.

That sounds like a subversion. Middle class people wear high class finery because its aspirational, while the high class doesn't wear those markers because they are assured of their place in society.

It's still the same concept.

Certain clothes are indicators of wealth and or status.

Even if the highclass choose not to wear them, it doesn't change what they are.

There is a difference between wearing an outfit beyond your normal status and 'I'm rich and I look it'.

I could have sworn we had tropes for those already, probably related to Princess for a Day and such.

The big thing though is the finery trope should be about the kinds of fancy high class outfits out there, they change drastically depending on the era,

edited 12th Jul '16 1:04:16 AM by Memers

Seconded. That's why I included "high class snorkel" in the draft version. I wanted to include the variety.

Heck for some works its color that is all that is required to be finery, which is true in certain points of history. For example in The Legend Of Heroes Trails Of Cold Steel it is white that is the noble status symbol, all commoners wear lowly green. Diablo III designates 'Royal Dye' which is purple for that purpose.

If you get into card games and mobile games, especially Idol ones like Aikatsu, then things like 'premium rare' dresses like this◊ are seen as that although the west and many others would call it a fashion disaster.

edited 12th Jul '16 4:24:19 PM by Memers

as long as it counts In-Universe

Tomboyish Sidetails. On paper, it seems okay. It's an appearance that denotes a personality trait. But there are a few problems:

• The fact that I'm pretty sure that, outside of this page and this wiki, sidetail exclusively refers to a side ponytail, not sidelocks.
• A lack of context on the page. Maybe half the entries discuss personality at all. And that's being generous.
• Raging lack of context on the wiki. First 17 wicks (in other words, 10% of total wicks) have two examples with anything resembling context:
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Amatsuki: Zero Context
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/AzumangaDaioh: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/BambooBlade: Zero Context and Examples Are Not Arguable
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/BambooBlade: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/BambooBladeC: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/BanzaiPecan: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeehiveHairdo: Sufficient context! Gasp!
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DarthWiki/BELQDNG: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Ben10VillainsOriginalSeries: Zero context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/wysiwyg_source_editor.php?groupname=Characters&title=BenTo&load=source: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/BeyondTheBoundary: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/BirdyTheMighty: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/BitterVirgin: Zero context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/BlackRockShooter: Commented out ZCE.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BoyishShortHair: Sufficient context. That's 2.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/BrokenSword: Zero Context.
  • https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/ChoirOfLunatics: Zero Context.
• I suspect, but cannot confirm, that even if all the zero context examples fit, that there's plenty of examples of this hairstyle that doesn't fit the appearance and it's just that tomboyish or strong female characters are common, this hairstyle is common, and therefore there's overlap.

edited 13th Jul '16 12:12:13 PM by Larkmarn

The Queen of England generally wears clothes that are elegant, well-tailored, stylish, and very high-class, but far from opulent!

Louis XIV wore clothes that were both opulent and high-class—but that was a different era.

Today, high-class is more generally associated with elegance than opulence, at least in the west. Opulence is more commonly associated with musicians and the like.

There have been several idea thrown around and I think they are worth their own tropes.

• A trope about opulence as in "great wealth or luxuriousness" was what I was talking about with the 'Im Rich and I LOOK IT!' comment. Its a common thing for Nouveau Riche characters like Ai Ebihara in Persona 4 to go crazy with this.
• Symbols and outfits of status, high class elements like elbow length gloves and such, wearing white, Corsets and such that are period accurate or explained in universe and such.
• Symbols and outfits of elegance, which might overlap with the above trope too much.
• Dressing up above your normal status and such would be a supertrope to Princess for a Day and many times not as extreme.
• Flamboyant Costumes like Elton John, Magic Idol Singer / Idol outfits for stage shows, 'Premium rare' outfits in many FTP games and by extention Magical Girl in general. They exist to be flashy and contain elements that no one would wear in public without making a fashion statement like Lolita Fashion. The idol type would contain other costume tropes like Giant Waist Ribbon, Zettai Ryouiki, Detached Sleeves, Thigh High Boots, that little side hat◊[1]◊, layers of frills, excessive hair decorations and such as elements to make the complete outfit.
  • EDIT: we currently have a trope for Magical Girl outfits in general Frills of Justice which would be a subtrope to above.

edited 14th Jul '16 5:25:16 PM by Memers

guys, this isn't talking about the composition of the clothes.

its talking about the individual clothes themselves.

you can wear long opera gloves with an otherwise minimalist costume, and the opera gloves suggest high class. you could wear opera gloves as part of an extravagant outfit, the opera glove still suggest high class. even if they are subverted or downplayed or exaggerated based on the rest of the get up.

We can have individual tropes for types of outfits (which is what i think you're getting at). The point of High Class Finery is to get rid of the tropes for types of individual articles of clothing.

Gaudy Costume can be a trope. Minimalist Elegant Costume can be a trope. Extravagant Costume can be a trope maybe. Flamboyant Peacocking Outfit can be a trope.

But something like Opera Gloves is not a trope. Opera Gloves are High Class Finery. And depending on how you incorporate High Class Finery into an overall outfit could end up on any end of the spectrum of potential costume tropes.

edited 14th Jul '16 9:46:42 PM by acrobox

Seems like a reasonable set of groupings.

I believe that's the general consensus, yes.

cool, so what i mean is, Opulent Outfits right now is a list of indvidual clothing tropes (in practice it's more like Opulent Articles Of Clothing) and ergo should be combined into High Class Finery.

Opulent Outfits can then be redefined into a trope about opulent outfits and the people who wear them as opposed to Opulent Articles Of Clothing

edited 16th Jul '16 4:57:35 PM by acrobox

So on the High Class Finery YKTTW, should I make a note on that the trope is about outfits that denote elegance and class instead of gaudiness and flashiness/flamboyance like Opulent Outfits?

Although it might be too soon to make a distinction since as it stands Opulent Outfits is not a trope but it still a good idea to make one. I think Opulent Outfits might work as a its own trope but not completely sure. But I don't think it should stay an index though.

I think Opulent Outfits is a better index than a trope because not all of them fall under one superstore and any attempt to make a supergroup that covers everything is just going to end up meaningless.

Do not put a note on High Class Finery about opulence. Tropes can overlap. There is nothing wrong with examples falling into multiple categories. All it means is that the creators smushed two tropes together.

edited 17th Jul '16 8:38:32 AM by shimaspawn

Dewicking for Red-Headed Hero is basically complete, so I've redirected the page to Red Is Heroic.

Great! Is our next objective Tomboyish Sidetails, another red trope or something else?

Tomboyish Sidetails

It is a clear cut for just being too ZCE an people just listing the hairstyle instead of a trope. It's past the misuse threshold. Dewick and cut.