Is this an example?

Yes, I'd say so.

That makes me question a bit of my own use of Tomato Surprise. The MC is the host personality but we don't find that out until volume 3 when her more ruthless original personality manifests during a fight. The MC is then in the dark about it until volume 4 when her original confronts her about something she noticed while in the back of her head. That said, when the MC does find out her original explains both to her and to us how she was created, which is another bombshell.

Working on The Fallen World

Internal Reveal is the exact opposite of Tomato Surprise.

• Internal Reveal: The audience knows an important fact that the character(s) don't.
• Tomato Surprise: The character(s) know an important fact that the audience doesn't.
• Tomato in the Mirror: Neither the audience nor the character(s) know an important fact.
• Locked Out of the Loop: Other characters know an important fact that a specific character doesn't.

Note that these often have to do with a character's identity, but the definitions don't necessarily require it. Also, the descriptions of Tomato Surprise and Tomato in the Mirror are way too long.

ETA: The classic Tomato in the Mirror plot is when a character harbors some form of categorism, only to learn that they are in fact a member of the category in question.

As I said earlier, Everyone Is a Tomato is the reduction to absurdity of Tomato in the Mirror, in which character after character is revealed as a member of the category in question. It is strongly related to Flock of Wolves.

Edited by Fighteer on Apr 24th 2024 at 6:06:22 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

This is kind of a mixed bag. Tomato in the Mirror applies because neither the host nor the reader knew she was an alter until the climactic battle of the third volume. Internal Reveal because the host blacked out and wasn't aware of it for the better part of volume 4 while the reader was. Locked Out of the Loop because the original is fully aware of what she is and how she came to be, which technically involves treason, though she is the only character we have seen aware of that and was asleep until the end of volume 3. Tomato Surprise because the reader doesn't know the MC's name but even the host does, she just hasn't said it out loud. Downplayed because they kept hinting at it until it was confirmed.

For context, the MC was originally a relatively normal human in a sci-fi setting. After Brain Uploading, an AI made some alterations to her personality, suppressed some memories, and put her back in her body with a new identity. While she didn't know her on again off again girlfriend made such changes to her mind she did know the name she has been using the whole series was invented after she left her old identity behind. She also didn't know she tried to take her own life, which is why the changes were made.

In the most recent chapter another character has discovered the MC was using a fictional identity but hasn't figured out her original identity yet.

Now that I think about it, I should add Internal Reveal because the reader is aware a program is actively messing with the MC's mind but she doesn't learn about it until volume 4 when her original informs her of it.

Working on The Fallen World

Would there be a more fitting trope?

That sounds like Cowboy BeBop at His Computer, or possibly Common Knowledge.

Discombobulate.

Does Race Lift accept voice acting examples, or would that be too common? I would lean to the latter, but I've got an Inverted Trope example kicking around my head of a canonically black anime character who (naturally) had a Japanese voice actor in the original, but then her English dub VA is black IRL.

Yeah, that's true. Never mind then.

Edited by StarSword on Apr 24th 2024 at 1:20:57 PM

I feel that is too common and more to the point, doesn't really change the race of the character. It is another story when we can see the actor.

Working on The Fallen World

VideoGame.Postal 2

• Precision F-Strike: Considering the Dude's standard fare and the circumstances, the Dude writing "GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!" as the very last objective in Paradise Lost qualifies for one of these.

I don't get how this is supposed to be this trope, considering the tone of the game and the fact everyone swears all over the place.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

If everyone swears all over the place, then it probably isn't an example. Either way, it's zero context.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.

For Tastes Like Friendship, do the characters have to have never met before to count?

Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!

Bumping; it got lost in the tomato sauce.

"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her) (Current Focus: Cleaning Hell Is That Noise misuse)

Does it count as Adaptation Species Change if the source material has changed their species since the adaptation?

This is specifically about Moira MacTaggart from X-Men: The Animated Series and Xmen 97. She's a human in both shows as she was in the comics at the time. Since then she's been revealled to be a mutant in the comics but is still a human in the show.

But the show didn't change her species intentionally.

The entry on the character page was originally:

Which I changed to:

Is that correct/understandable?

Edited by dcutter2 on Apr 25th 2024 at 1:32:36 PM

I don't think so. I think it just requires that the characters weren't friends before.

---

If a character (Ezra Lamb from the play Legoland, in this case) is canonically diagnosed with severe ADHD but never appears to be particularly hyperactive or distracted, is it worth noting as an Aversion of Attention Deficit... Ooh, Shiny!?

Edited by Electrite on Apr 25th 2024 at 8:34:13 AM

fun fact: pro tip: breaking news: life hack: i can't find a good signature

I say cut. When the show was made originally, she was human in the comic so there's no change in species.

Edited by WhirlRX on Apr 25th 2024 at 5:41:16 AM

Actually, ignore this one. I think I know the answer.

Edited by BigBadShadow25 on Apr 25th 2024 at 10:53:52 AM

The Owl House and Coyote Vs Acme are my Roman Empire.

I fail to see how Writers Guild Of America Award's "Children's Episodic, Long Form and Specials category" is remotely related to teen drama, nor why would an award have a say in what the genre is.

e:

Edited by Amonimus on Apr 25th 2024 at 5:56:30 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Originally posted on the BKFTF thread:

Found this recently added entry on YMMV.Stellar Blade

• Best Known for the Fanservice: Due to the game's marketing focusing heavily on the fact that you play as a sexy Asian chick with a huge ass to the exclusion of the its story and gameplay, the game garnered this reputation before it even fully released, with some gamers semi-humorously remarking that they still can't even tell what genre the game is supposed to be because all discussion of the game is dominated by Perverse Sexual Lust.

Considering the shameless Sex Sells advertising the game has, I don't think it counts as the trope. It's worth noting that I deleted another example of this for that reason.

She/Her | Currently cleaning N/A

If fanservice isn't minor, then Best Known for the Fanservice wouldn't work.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

I saw this on Winnie-the-Pooh — Antagonists for Crud's entry: Laughably Evil: Even with his slightly horrific concept, he has a rather petty comical demeanor. His motives are solely to create trash, after all.

To me, he's not really laughable. There's some serious Fridge Horror with him wanting to make the entire world dirty what with all the gunk and everything that needs to be cleaned up if that happens, not to mention what'll happen to nature.

Also, I was wondering if I can add this for The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh: Loose Canon: To the DisneyToon era as in Pooh's Heffalump Movie, Roo doesn't know what a Heffalump is despite having appeared in The Great Honey Pot Robbery alongside Stan and Heff. Likewise, in Pooh's Heffalump Halloween Movie, the bulk of the film is Boo to You Too! Winnie the Pooh but Roo says that the special took place before Kanga and Roo moved to the Hundred Acre Wood.

Edited by FirstAidRules on Apr 25th 2024 at 10:49:00 AM

Hi!

We don't rely on Fridge Horror to assess objective tropes. Is he, or is he not, played comically in the work — without worrying about the consequences of his plan succeeding?

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Crud hams it up whenever possible but is played completely seriously with his hamminess being the only funny thing about him.

Hi!

On YMMV.Deadpool And Wolverine:

• Cross the Line Twice: Giant Man's Skull being used as a base on its own works as Body Horror, but if you combine it with Paul Rudd's memetic The Ageless-ness, it becomes Black Comedy that something eventually did him in.

Setting aside the incorrect trope name, this seems like a stretch. At best, it's a meta element regarding an actor who is probably not even in the movie.

Permission to cut?

Yeah, that's ridiculous. Cut it.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Bumping this question.

Discombobulate.

@Mister I would agree that that's a stretch indeed.

Is there a better way that I could've rewrote and better packaged this example under the YMMV of The Hitman's Wife's Bodyguard by the way (at one point, I think I did cut it up into three sub-entires too, so there you go):

• Alternative Character Interpretation: When it comes to Michael Sr. and just how villainous he is:
  • While he comes off as a Smug Snake for the way he puts down Michael after The Reveal and basically declaring I Have No Son! to him, before that, he's a loving father still managing to show a little genuine affection despite his betrayal—which would indeed speak to the mention of the "Gelato Incident" being a pure and simple accident after all and not a Kick the Dog. It could all be viewed as either Senior wishing to disown and discredit him for being a disappointment as a son or if it's a way of pushing him to become better. It's not hard to see the latter given Senior later offers Michael back his license in exchange for not being involved anyway, compliments Michael on getting him with the penknife and then directs him to blowing the ship as the only way to stop the attack against Europe. There's also the matter of whether or not he actually has genuine loyalty toward Aristotle or if Michael Sr.'s simply just a Punch-Clock Villain and Knight Templar wanting to do his job as a bodyguard professionally, even if it means taking a bullet while wearing a vest. There's also the angle at the very end of the film that Senior's not Evil Gloating when telling Michael he has to die to blow the boat, but as an Evil Mentor, testing him once again and his smile is not smug satisfaction, but actually being proud of his son.

Or is there an ACI cleanup thread somewhere? There are two smaller sections on the actual page too. They were added by HighfalutinQuelea though.

Thoughts?