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Misused: Troll
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Misused: Troll get usage counts

As a reminder for everyone, the necessary actions are:
  • Claim a section, say a particular letter, so that you're not constantly tripping over someone else.
  • Correct any wicks that should point to The Gadfly or another trope.
  • Strip out any references to the types from the former Sliding Scale.
  • Add the example to the appropriate trope page (The Gadfly or Troll most likely). Keeping records in a .txt or similar file and adding a batch would be best, to avoid multiple people trying to edit at the same time.
  • If you come across a Zero-Context Example, move it to the discussion page with a note that it can be added back as The Gadfly or Troll as appropriate so long as it has a good description and is also added on the corresponding trope page.
  • Post when you finish a section.


Completed

  • A-O
  • T-Z

To Do

  • P, Q, R, S done


Original post removed to allow for cleanup status.

edited 31st Jan '13 2:03:46 AM by lu127

 1 Blue Guy, Sat, 1st Sep '12 8:47:27 AM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
As a reminder for everyone, the necessary actions are:
  • Claim a section, say a particular letter, so that you're not constantly tripping over someone else.
  • Correct any wicks that should point to The Gadfly or another trope.
  • Strip out any references to the types from the former Sliding Scale.
  • Add the example to the appropriate trope page (The Gadfly or Troll most likely). Keeping records in a .txt or similar file and adding a batch would be best, to avoid multiple people trying to edit at the same time.
  • If you come across a Zero-Context Example, move it to the discussion page with a note that it can be added back as The Gadfly or Troll as appropriate so long as it has a good description and is also added on the corresponding trope page.
  • Post when you finish a section.


Completed

  • A-O
  • T-Z

To Do

  • P, Q, R, S done


Original post removed to allow for cleanup status.

edited 31st Jan '13 2:03:46 AM by lu127

This issue came up pretty recently and it was agreed that there was a lot of misuse for when people really mean The Gadfly. Prior discussion.

I think that in the end we reached the conclusion that we have a missing trope. The discussion was shut down, though, without achieving anything.

edited 1st Sep '12 9:04:56 AM by Arha

According to the crowner, the decision was to redefine them to:

  • The Gadfly: A prankster character who's not deliberately trying to be cruel. They play with people's heads for harmless amusement (for themselves or others).
  • Troll: Malicious and actively seeking to cause ill will toward his victims, whether on the internet or otherwise.

But the thread got locked for some reason before anything was done.
I think I knew at the time why it was locked, but I can't remember now. Probably something about the administration not being willing to repurpose a page that is so popular.

Well, assuming we get over that hurdle would we preserve the current extensive article in some form somewhere? The page is really long.

edited 1st Sep '12 9:23:00 AM by Arha

 5 lu 127, Sat, 1st Sep '12 9:27:38 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
The previous thread was closed because...

Misuse is not supported. Trolls are annoying people. The distinction you want to make, that there a class of annoying people who are not trolls, does not follow from the common use of the word 'troll.'
迷子の足音消えた 代わりに祈りの唄
Ah, but that's the thing. Our article focuses entirely on internet trolls and has a lengthy description of them and how they work and whatnot. Our proposal was to make the page into what you just said.

 7 Septimus Heap, Sat, 1st Sep '12 11:10:50 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Well, this page just needs to get a proper definition. If troll really means annoying people (and from Google, it seems not to be), then this page's definition needs some overhaul.

Unless we want to live with mismatched descriptions and usages forever.

 8 Ironeye, Wed, 9th Jan '13 5:50:59 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
With Mod Hat On
Bumping. As per the TRS thread for Sliding Scale Of Troll Cruelty, the last TRS thread on this topic, and the Fast One, we need to fix this trope. That is, we need to remove the internet-only restriction while emphasizing the malice that separates this from The Gadfly. Also, the description is way too long anyway. This thread is now about rewriting the description. Let's get some drafts going!
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Troll has a draft in it now. It's much shorter. Possibly too short.

 10 Another Duck, Wed, 9th Jan '13 6:18:20 PM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
To start with, the page quotation is Poe's Law, not Troll. I think it should be removed or replaced.

As for the description, much of it is trivia. If I were to just cut part of it, it'd look something like this (I've not added parts for non-internet trolls):

Edit: Ninja-Arha.


A malcontent that posts messages specifically designed to enrage, confuse, and/or infuriate as many people as possible.

A case-in-point of the GIFT, the troll delights in sowing chaos; he is enamored by the thought that he can set off total strangers and derail entire forum topics by posting one simple message. At the same time, anonymity shields him from the uncomfortable realization that total strangers are currently fantasizing about his brutal and painful death.

In the world of fan fiction, an author who intentionally posts a story that is stupid, badly spelled, or otherwise insincere is also referred to as a 'troll', as are the stories in question themselves. The goal of such trolls seems to be to either laugh at the people who like their fic, because they're obviously stupid, or to laugh at the possibly self-righteous criticism they receive from more "serious" fic writers. See Troll Fic.

Also note that a genuine troll doesn't need to be announced as such. One fallacious use of the term "troll" is to mean "somebody I disagree with". When you see somebody declare their opposition a troll during a debate (especially if it's later in the debate or it's against an established member of the community), it's an Ad Hominem attack as a desperate ploy to win. As such, this in turn became one of trolling tactics. In most civilized communities, it is similar to Godwin's Law in its ability to automatically derail the argument and destroy the respectability of the invoker.

Trolls are a form of griefer. Griefer as a specific term often refers to a person who trolls people in online video games by interfering with play and doing everything they possibly can to ruin the fun of other people trying to play the game normally (or stupidly.)

They are not known for their logic.

Note that if what somebody says is truly their honest opinion, no matter how dumb or incomprehensible, they are not a troll. They may still be idiots.

For an article about mythological trolls, see All Trolls Are Different.

edited 9th Jan '13 6:18:59 PM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!
[up][up] Short, yes, but I like it. Simple and to the point, with an explanation on the origin of the term as well.

edited 9th Jan '13 6:19:10 PM by Discar

Anything you think needs to be added to it?

 13 nrjxll, Wed, 9th Jan '13 10:43:14 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I'd add links to For the Evulz and GIFT, but that's all.

Oh, this thread. Yeah, it got locked down... I suppose Troll could just be named Internet Troll. The Gadfly doesn't seem to be thriving, and most people just use Troll.

edited 10th Jan '13 3:26:04 PM by MegaJ

 
[up] Hence the reason for the change in definition. The Sliding Scale Of Troll Cruelty (which is in all certainty going to be axed soon) was born because of that very issue you brought up.

Also, I've established the rudimentary "back bone" of the page. Since When They Cry became pivital in the establishment of the new definitions, I went ahead and added those examples first along with Terumi, one of the most infamous trolls in all of fiction.

edited 10th Jan '13 7:53:26 PM by magnum12

 
 16 Septimus Heap, Sun, 13th Jan '13 6:03:37 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Are we good to launch Sandbox.Troll?

Well, examples need to be sorted. Also, the page might not need to stay locked anymore since it's not focused on internet trolls and shouldn't be so much of a potential vandalism magnet now.

 18 Septimus Heap, Sun, 13th Jan '13 8:32:27 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Sorted in which way?

Actually, I guess the page is okay enough on that front though a little too internet focused. Scratch that.

Our sand box page has been updated some more. Seems the "back bone" was not as through as I would have liked. Started porting some of the examples from original troll and sliding scale of troll cruelty. Hopefully, I've got the ones that are proper trolls under the changed definitions.
 
Well, anyway, the sandbox looks fine to me. Could use some more examples, I suppose, but that's nothing to get too concerned about with the number of wicks it has even if 90% are misuse. Still, would it be possible to unlock the page? It seems like it will be less likely to attract vandalism if it isn't about internet trolls anymore.

 22 Ironeye, Sun, 13th Jan '13 11:56:13 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
We can try a trial unlocking and see if it picks up any vandalism over the course of a week or two.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Okay, neat. Is the image still appropriate for the revamped page we intend to launch? The description seems adequate. After we get that in we'll just need to run some cleanup.

I'd say the image is good. He seems malicious and I think, visual pun and all, it conveys the concept better than a literal attempt probably could. Yes, it is an internet troll, but the page would still include those.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Well, that aside, can we plug in Troll now? Page is locked, so I can't do it.

Total posts: 70
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