Welcome to the Content Violations Discussion forum, where we discuss whether a work violates The Content Policy.
Remember that the forum rules apply here
, plus the following:
- You don't PM moderators about stuff pertaining to the policies, except for thread reasons;
- We tolerate links to scanlation sites unlike in the rest of the site due to its purpose, although it's preferred to remove them when they have done their jobs;
- The forum is not a soapbox for your own views on the policy or on morality. Please leave them at the door.
Violations of these rules can result in a ban from the subforum, or from the entire forum.
Otherwise:
Also, keep in mind that there are works that we don't want flagged without a really good reason as they are not likely in violation of policy:
- Is a film rated below "R" for U.S. distribution.
- Is a show that can be aired on prime time television.
- Is a video game that is rated below "M" by the ESRB.
- Is a written work that is sold in major bookstores without an "adult" or "mature" label.
- Is an anime/manga/etc. that is approved for U.S. import as a non-adult work.
- Is read/shown/taught in high school or below.
- Is in another format and meets equivalent criteria.
What we're looking for:
- Pure porn, or porn with an Excuse Plot only,
- Anything that has explicit underage sex,
- Implied sex of preteens or younger, and
- Fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles (lolicon and shotacon fanservice can count).
A couple of guidelines so the procedure can move smoothly:
- Do not list whole indexes or works just because they are on a certain index or have lolicon, H-Game or shotacon on their trope list.
- Do not list works you know nothing about without at least reading the trope page.
- Do not list works that you know are G-rated but you find creepy.
- If it's paedophile-pandering approximately how old are the characters involved? What happens? Is it graphic? Is it merely implied?
- List what objectionable content there is, and how much of the work consists of that.
- If it's entirely sex, say so. People have different ideas of what porn is. We all have the same idea of what a work being entirely sex scenes is.
- If you're not sure about a work, say so, or ask someone who does know that work. But don't make blanket accusations. Post here: "I don't know about this work, but the page says X".
- Google and Wikipedia are your friendsnote . Do a little digging on works you aren't sure about.
Also, in the case of H Games, there is this questioning to fill up:
- When are the sex scenes located?
- Are they spread out over the game?
- How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?
- Are they only at the endings?
- How hard do you have to work to get an ending?
- Are they in every ending? Every good ending?
- Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?
- Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?
- Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?
- How explicit are the sex scenes?
- This isn't a headcount. Your opinion is only considered if it explains in at least some detail how you came to the conclusion that the work is/isn't porn/paedopandering.
- When a moderator determines that the discussion has yielded a consensus, they can enact its conclusion/ask a moderator to enact the conclusion.
- The discussion is only about whether the work qualifies as porn or as paedopandering. We don't assess anything else in this process.
.
Q: Why is this happening?
A: Concerning the porn, it tends to attract creepy edits that have brought us into issues with the adservers while not significantly contributing to our core purpose - tropology. Concerning paedophilia-pandering, such works are just plain creepy to have pages about.
Q: What can I do to help clean the site?
A: You can flag content as unsuitable using the flag tool, which is located in the Tools menu to the right of each article, keeping the criteria in mind. Also, you can help enforce No Lewdness, No Prudishness across the wiki, possibly though cleaning pages listed in this Long Term Projects thread.
Q. This episodic work isn't finished yet. Shouldn't we wait for the ending before discussing it?
A. No. If released instalments may violate the content policy, we want to take action as soon as that's established — we don't need to wait for the ending. We can always revisit a decision to cut or keep once the work is over, but that point might still be years or decades away.
Q: This work is not actually/primarily pornographic. Why was it cut?
A: This could be for a number of different reasons. If the work was deemed to be paedopandering, for example, it will be cut whether or not it's actually sexually explicit. Being pro-paedophilia or pandering to paedophiles is bad enough, even if the work is nominally anti-paedophilia. Of course, it's possible that there was a mistake and then you should appeal it - please check the reasons first, however.
Q: This work is being/has been cut, but it is not a violation of the Content Policy. How do I make an appeal?
A: Flag the work page using the button in the sidebar and state your reasons for restoration.
Q: This work is pretty much pure porn, but it's really good porn. Can an exception be made?
A: Nope, sorry. If it's mainly porn, it goes.
Q: Why would you cut this? In [culture x], it is totally acceptable.
A: The vast majority of our readers come from the Americas or Western Europe, so we will be adhering to what could broadly be termed "Western" standards. This means we will not be permitting works which sexualize 12 year olds, and nor will we be demanding that every picture of a woman on the site must wear a burqa.
Q: How can you possibly claim to know authorial intent? (Roland Barthes is my co-pilot.)
A: It is not important what the authorial intent was, only the outcome.
Q: Wikipedia have articles on all kinds of awful stuff. Why can't we do the same?
A: Wikipedia is a strictly academic site. They have to cite sources and a "no censorship rule". They also do not aim to be Family Friendly, and are not reliant upon third party ads for funding. Conversely, one of our stated aims is to celebrate fiction, and our generally light, non-negative tone is a reflection of this, which has led to much more gushing about inappropiate content.
Q: So should I take every article here as an endorsement of whatever it describes?
A: No, of course not. We have pages on Greedy Jew, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf after all. However, if we choose to focus our attention on schoolgirls' thighs or porn, it does reflect very poorly on us. Fan Fic Recommendations are a slightly different issue. If a work is recommended there, this should be taken as an endorsement by the troper who wrote it.
Q: Are we allowed to make forum threads about works processed by the Content Violation Discussions forum?
A: If it was voted "clean and keep", a forum thread is relatively safe as long as it is restricted to talking about the clean parts. Anything with a stronger judgement is discouraged on the forums.
Q: Where can I find decisions regarding a work?
A: They are linked from the discussion page. Sometimes the old list of content reviews or the thread list in this forum can help as well.
Q: I still have some questions/concerns.
A: We will be happy to answer them. There is a thread for this.
- Guro: Violence played for titillation. (contrast Gorn)
- 5P or P5: The panel that administered the policy prior to the review system being overhauled in 2022. See 5P.
- P(a)edoshit: Older term for "P(a)edopandering", deprecated for being inflammatory.
- Porn: A work mostly concerned with sexual arousal. Having NSFW or explicit scenes doesn't automatically make a work porn — it's when showcasing explicit scenes is the entire point of the work.
Also, questions about the policy can be asked here. They will be added to this thread's FAQ section once answered.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 5th 2024 at 6:00:30 PM
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'd hesitate to make such an assumption, since it risks being a false correlation in the absence of solid evidence that the popularity increase is indeed because the people who have started to frequent the site after the objectionable page removals were avoiding the site previously for its said pages. Confirming that would require making a good survey.
edited 11th Feb '15 12:34:24 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
It's a plausible interpretation, though.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Considering how much bashing I have seen on other sites for arbitrary over censorship of non-porn stuff I doubt it.
As for stuff like Naughty Tentacles I personally think that it should come back in a lesser non-explicit locked form, they show up anywhere even kid shows and are usually only explicit in Hentai or borderline stuff and while don't need to describe those in detail, it is a trope. Kids shows usually end up going the Tickling Tentacles route after the initial threat.
edited 11th Feb '15 8:07:26 AM by Memers
I don't think we ever said Naughty Tentacles was gone for good. There was even a project to rewrite it, but it died out.
Regarding that A Serbian Film, I'll call ~Yo Kab here; they did propose the cut.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Sorcerer in training
Bashing is from very loud people who don't like to be told no. If you take them against the population who actually has (reliable, frequent) net access, they're a drop in the bucket as far as popularity assessment goes. They're just very loud.
It's like it's been mentioned in the edit banned/suspended thread: thousands of people manage to visit TV Tropes every day, and most of them behave, or at least aren't so troublesome they won't respond to a few PMs. It's only the persistent newbies and the troublemakers who tend to show up there -and a lot of them back off and shape up when they realize just how firm the boundaries are and that their behavior needs to change.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
And of course another indication of the difference between the silent majority and the loud minority is that an overwhelming majority of tropers never show any sign of even knowing that we have Fora, let alone posting in the policy discussions.
Sometimes I fear that our policies might be geared too much towards the wishes of people we interact with through the Fora, but that's probably just me (as I do virtually nothing Wiki-side). (Plus we rarely make policy decisions only on what people have been asking for - that gets a discussion started but there's usually quite a lot of input from the staff before things get established.)
Then there's also the simple fact that the only people who can be heard are those who speak up, and since the Fora are our avenue for that the burden has to be on people with opinions to find the Fora through the headlines and worshops (or ATT or by asking the staff).
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Lost in Space
One may postulate various hypothetical divisions of people interested in this site, overlapping in a complex sort of Venn diagram or grid:
- Like the articles about porn works: yes/no/don't care
- Care if we remove the articles about porn works: yes/no
- Be engaged enough to tell us about it: yes/no
- Is a staff member with decision-making power: yes/no
- Is someone with the ability to pull the plug on the site's funding: yes/no
These prioritize from bottom to top, and if you aren't at least a yes to the third one, then you have exactly as much say as people who bitch about government but don't vote.
edited 11th Feb '15 12:00:54 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I did my homewrk and read the policies now... I'm going to be straight honest and say that I did not start with reading policies and rules until yesterday. Proposing the cut was a really rushed decision, I didn't message the creators or anything. I suppose this isn't uncommon among newbies but I should get a grip of myself. I rushed into the conclusion without trying to look for other solutions, and I take the blame for it. Maybe I should just slow down and take my time to read everything else. Or perhaps I should just stick to adding logos/covers and mediocre tropes.
edited 12th Feb '15 11:54:07 AM by YoKab
Sorcerer in training
@Best Of: Well, now on the wiki we have a BIG button right at the top of the page saying "Forums", so at least people should be more aware they exist. 
More seriously, it might take a while for editors to wander over to the forums. I know I didn't until a few months after the 2nd Google thing had calmed down.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
No, the other one.
You'd be surprised what people miss. Imagine a page with a login form (name and login), with a text above specifying what login is used there, in a noticeable and easy-read font. And absolutely nothing else. Wanna guess how many people miss the text and call support because they can't log in?
edited 25th Feb '15 1:33:08 AM by AnotherDuck
Check out my fanfiction!
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
... Please tell me that you're kidding.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Sorcerer in training
Read Not Always Right. He's not kidding. There's also clientsfromhell.net and techtales. That's why I qualified my statement with "should". Because some people have the observational skills of a mossy rock.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Hey folks, I recently PMed Septimus Heap regarding the creation of a page for August Software's 2011 visual novel Aiyoku no Eustia and he pointed me here. I figured it'd be better to ask permission rather than forgiveness, sort of thing. I've looked over the guidelines outlined in The Content Policy and the 5P Circuit, and there are some areas that I'd rather put before the board than make a decision on myself, though I'm more than willing to provide references and a general description of the VN and its content.
It's been fun.
Tropes? We don't need no stinkin tropes
Try to present your points in a less dismissive way, please.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Having run a kickstarter does not mean the site is self-sufficient, that would require running them repeatedly and hoping they never start failing.
Also the whole issue is more complex than "oh noes, google is censoring art!"
edited 28th Apr '15 2:05:45 AM by Adannor
Tropes? We don't need no stinkin tropes
No, the other one.
Try to present your points in a less hyperbolic way, please.
By the way, "censorship is bad" is a moral stance you're trying to force on others.
Check out my fanfiction!
Also, there was a pragmatic reason for removing the porno pages - lots of editors added too much detail to examples from them, to the point that the articles themselves read as porny at times.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Hi
Unfortunately, cleanup efforts on at least some of these pages to deal with that very issue were rendered moot when they were axed. That, combined with the "ew this is icky" tone of the presentation for the purge, infuriated me...I was as close as I've come to turning in my badge and saying "Fuck it, I'm done" with the entire wiki when that happened.
edited 28th Apr '15 6:40:53 AM by Willbyr
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
... Color me surprised to know that, Willbyr. You certainly managed to maintain a professional mask of effective ambivalence/neutrality (or as close as one could get to either, considering the topic) until now.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Well yeah, nobody's disputing that Google involvement made an unpleasant mess. Plus Eddie's personal extreme stance on some things (IIRC, "even a little slip of loli - shoot it down without question" is his mandate. Without it some works like Sengoku Rance might have passed the P5.)
But as nice it would be to not have the issue and just go back to good old No Lewdness No Prudishness principle, the ads are still the lifeblood of the site as far as I know, so there isn't any sweeping change coming. At most, a talk with the new owners about borderlines like Rance and Caligula.
Hi
Thank you; believe me, I've had some very strong opinions about this entire thing that I've squashed for the sake of maintaining order. The purge of the pages that had had cleanup work done also tripped one of my biggest Berserk Buttons, which is wasted effort.
edited 28th Apr '15 9:29:58 AM by Willbyr
Having looked up what tha chibi Usa thing is, I'm quite happy that it's not coming back. Anyone have any Brain Bleach handy?
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.