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Ambiguous Name: Franchise Original Sin get usage counts

 1 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 3:29:12 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
Franchise Original Sin is a little ambiguous and seems like a word salad of some sort.

I'd suggest a clearer name, such as Franchise Decay Origin.
So, this one predates the current discussion system and has 29 wicks. I don't see a ykttw for it so I don't know exactly how old it is. It does seem as though it might be rather unhealthy though.

 3 ccoa, Mon, 6th Aug '12 3:50:24 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
This is essentially "something introduced early that's not necessary to the work which destroys it later."

...Is that really a valid trope?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 4 Kuro Bara Hime, Mon, 6th Aug '12 4:02:56 PM from Somewhere...I think Relationship Status: Mu
☆♥☆
It's basically when the main thing that made something worse later on existed earlier in the story, but was not as bad, or actually good there.

 5 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 4:21:13 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
[up] Yeah, that's pretty much it.

It should be worth noting that most of the examples become a lot clearer in hindsight - if the Nostalgia Filter isn't holding sway, that is.
 6 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 4:33:11 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
The redirect is more understandable, Dork Age Foreshadowing.

 8 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 4:58:00 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
[up] Yeah, that would make more sense.
You know, this doesn't seem that distinct from Plot Tumor to me. Early small thing increases in prominence and fans come to hate it.

 10 Kuro Bara Hime, Mon, 6th Aug '12 5:24:14 PM from Somewhere...I think Relationship Status: Mu
☆♥☆
True. Though Plot Tumor deals specifically with plotlines and elements becoming more important, and Franchise Original Sin could include stuff like the same things wrong with a later disliked part are also wrong with an earlier liked part, but weren't as bad.

edited 6th Aug '12 5:24:47 PM by KuroBaraHime

 11 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 5:30:50 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
Bump?

And I think some Entry Pimping is in order.
 12 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 5:47:04 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
[up][up] Do you think Plot Tumor could be a Sub-Trope of this?
 13 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 5:53:24 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
Bump again?
This seems to have nothing to do with the the theological concept of original sin. Also, at its core this is "good work starts a bad trend." In a lot of the better examples, the bad works are not part of the same franchise. I say leave "franchise" out of the name entirely.
 
 15 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 7:12:03 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
So have we a consensus on "Dork Age Foreshadowing"?
 16 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 7:29:56 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
Bump again?? sad
Blue Guy, you need to slow down a little. Stuff doesn't happen in the Trope Repair Shop overnight and it's quite normal for a large amount of time to go by between posts.

Frankly, this just seems like Plot Tumor But Definitely Bad to me. Just merge it into that.

This isn't really related to storyline elements, though.

I would say it relates more to contained flaws that didn't really detract from the overall experience/story/franchise until it grows over time. And you always trace that flaw back to earlier installments. So not a Plot Tumor.

If we're changing it, I like Dork Age Foreshadowing or Start Of Dorkness. You know like "Start of Darkness."

edited 6th Aug '12 7:41:54 PM by MegaJ

 
 19 Blue Guy, Mon, 6th Aug '12 7:58:00 PM from Bella Vista, Arkansas Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
zzz...
[up][up] Ah, I forgot people actually have lives sad

[up] You're right. A good amount of the examples are for video games whose eventual decay was evident (though obviously less prevalent) in earlier installments.

I like "Start Of Dorkness".

edited 6th Aug '12 8:09:35 PM by BlueGuy

[up]Oh wait, there actually is a Start of Darkness trope. Are we still trying to stay away from snowclones?
 
even older skool
The thing with merging with Plot Tumor is that the latter's definition doesn't necessarily involve becoming more problematic over time, as seen in non-serial examples such as the rather triumphant Pearl Harbor. Also, the "plot" part seems to indicate that it applies only to narrative elements as opposed to the numerous other aspects of a work that can lead to a Dork Age (several of which can be conveniently observed in this page image).

Incidentally, this page seems to have far more examples than typical for tropes with such a low wick count. Did a single troper spend lots of time adding them or something?

edit: [up] I'm not sure, but I think we try to at least avoid Snow Clones that aren't related to one another, and Start of Darkness/Start of Dorkness would definitely qualify as that.

edited 6th Aug '12 8:20:29 PM by EnragedFilia

 22 Kuro Bara Hime, Mon, 6th Aug '12 8:23:42 PM from Somewhere...I think Relationship Status: Mu
☆♥☆
Is Dork Age really that applicable here? A Dork Age is a change to something long-running that doesn't really work, and Franchise Original Sin is a drop in quality for a series or franchise due to a old problem becoming worse.

"Original Sin" means that all current sins can be traced back to the original sin, ie Adam and Eve. Thus Franchise Original Sin suggests that any current problems with a franchise can be traced back to a much earlier period in its run.

I see no reason to arbitrarily change the name. It's not misleading and I see no signs of misuse, for a YMMV trope it seems rather healthy and respectable in fact.

 24 Septimus Heap, Tue, 7th Aug '12 1:08:20 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Franchise Original Sin seems like a clear name to me. Plus, the concept that a work is ruined by a feature that was already there during its glory days seems definitively tropeworthy.

[up][up]Except the point seems to be that it wasn't a sin at all in its original appearance.
 
Total posts: 51
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