Rename (alt names crowner 8/6): Little Boy Blue Note

Little Boy Blue Note is not thriving. The trope seems muddled — is it fictional kids singing? Is it real life kids who sing? Is it little kids singing on adult works? Also, the name is confusing and not related to the trope. It has nothing to do with Little Boy Blue or blue notes, which are a real thing.

26 wicks, 6 inbounds.

edited 20th Apr '12 10:50:01 PM by Twentington

Yeah, I don't get it. If the children sing, they will be the credited performers. I don't know why that's considered tropeable.

On the discussion page, there's no direct link to the YKTTW, but both troacctid and Madrugada posted links that were supposed to go to the trope's YKTTW. Neither link works. I even tried the link on the Internet Archive and still came up empty.

The name, IMO, is terrible, and even if we uncover an actual trope here, it seems unlikely to thrive with this name.

My recommendation is to cut. As a second choice, cut and send (back?) to YKTTW.

Hmm having a boy or group of boys sing over certain events like a Hope Spot and such choir style is at trope. (IE Lord Of The Rings endings use one more than once.)

A Child popstar singer or group trying to make it big or famous (In fiction) is a trope I think (related to Idol Singer) but this as written is not a trope.

edited 20th Apr '12 11:59:26 PM by Raso

I don't see how this is a trope. Perhaps we should cut this.

Really don't see how this is a trope, supporting cut.

Don't cut it. Rewrite and rename to be more clearly about kid music groups, as a category of musician.

I think the lack of thriving has to to with the opaque name and the fact that we don't have a lot of pages on the types of groups that qualify.

But is simply being a child singer notable? What's the cutoff for "child" anyway? 14 like LeAnn Rimes when she released "Blue"? Or is that too old?

If you do that you will have to limit it to shows that use it In-Universe IMO. (but still tons and tons of overlap with Idol Singer.... (which are all sub-25) Then there is Teen Idol

edited 21st Apr '12 10:27:58 PM by Raso

Teen Idol isn't an idol who is a teen. Teen Idol is, to quote the article, "An entertainer who is idolized by teenagers."

I would say that Child Popstar is as least as much of a trope as Idol Singer, Teen Idol, and Boy Band. Also, Idol Singer, as it is written right now, is mostly a Japanese thing, and is inclusive of singers in their twenties.

edited 22nd Apr '12 3:17:29 AM by Catbert

Disney uses In-universe examples of Idol Singer but other than that nah.

And oops my mistake on Teen Idol...

Keep in mind that we treat the Music industry as a medium, so Real Life music groups are "In-universe" for the Music category. Groups/individuals like Miley Cirus, Jonas Brothers, the Osmonds when they were first starting out, The Naked Brothers Band, and the others listed. I would say that teen/preteen popstars are a distinct category.

edited 22nd Apr '12 3:21:42 AM by Catbert

Those should / are right now split that off between actual artists who put out albums and character in a show that are one...

It is very different the TV versions normally explore elements behind the scenes preparing to do a show IE Idol Master or can be just an Informed Attribute IE Persona 4 till the anime and a lot of other things. These are very common to be come Broken Bird s, alienated from others at school, and have other stereotypes that do not apply to RL. It is purely a character trope inside works.

As it is Idol Singer is just about the In-Universe aspect right now with the actual artists are under Japanese Pop Music.

That is not to say they cant be in universe and get C Ds though the AKB 48 is getting an anime about them. and Aya Hirano as herself in concert in Lucky Star, Two Mix in Detective Conan getting caught up in a kidnapping case and such.

edited 22nd Apr '12 3:49:46 AM by Raso

Raso, I don't really know how Japan cover things. I'm mainly thinking of Western examples, of which Idol Singer has almost none. I do think that kid groups are a distinct category in Western musician. For the purposes of this reworking trope, I would probably limit it to artists in various "popular" styles like rock/rap/pop. Sometimes these singers do get their own shows, the Hannah Montana and The Naked Brothers Band. Other times they don't, but I still think that it is closely enough related that one page can cover it.

If you want to more explicitly include Western teen/child groups under Idol Singer, then you need to rename and redefine it so that it isn't about the Japanese term and way of doing things. How I don't think that is a good idea. I'd rather fix this trope so that it can better cover teen/child groups in general, and have Idol Singer be a related trope for a particular way that Japan treats certain types teen/tweenties singers.

Boy Choir would also be a genre trope for music, but I would treat deal with it under separate trope because it really isn't the same thing.

edited 22nd Apr '12 3:55:30 AM by Catbert

Wait, I thought you were arguing the other side of things.... I was saying keep as is, maybe expand on the character types used in the characters in media in the write up.

I actually wouldn't mind renaming it to Japanese Idol Singer or something... with Magic Idol Singer as a subtrope of that and Magical Girl.

And looking at the example list of Lord Of The Rings (I sited earlier) we do have the Choir trope Cherubic Choir.

edited 22nd Apr '12 4:08:38 AM by Raso

Okay, to make myself more clear:

• Rename Little Boy Blue Note something that is more indicative, like Child Popstar
• Make it more clearly about child and teen musicians as a category of musician
• Include both examples from stories and actual music groups, the latter falling under the category of "Music". Note that there is overlap, in that some muscians end up getting their own shows or appearing on a show as characters, and sometimes musicians that start out on shows end up releasing albums or soundtracks under the name.

Cherubic Choir is about the use of child choirs in a soundtrack to give certain feelings to a scene. Technically, it isn't supposed to be about actual choirs doing regular singing in other contexts.

edited 22nd Apr '12 4:14:31 AM by Catbert

that all sounds good.

Something needs to be done about Idol Singer too, but that's for another thread.

Support.

Child Popstar sounds good as a name, with a wider scope for real life examples.

Off the top of my head, I know:

• Brenda Lee (Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree)
• LeAnn Rimes
• Amie Comeaux (cajun country singer who died in a car crash at 17)
• Hunter Hayes (another Cajun kid who was an accordionist since age 4 — currently 21 but looks 10)

It could also be a supertrope for the likes of Boy Band, Girl Group and Teen Idol, no?

I would be a related trope, but not a parent/super trope. A Teen Idol, for example, is a person idolized by teens, not a teen that is an idol (despite what the name would make you think) and need not be a singer/musician.

Crowner hooked.

Are we renaming?

Twelve to zero points to yes.

Calling crowner.

So what do we rename it to?

Child Popstar seems to have broad support and no stated opposition so far.