Not Tropeworthy: Badass Angster

As the next trope to be discussed in the Badass Tropes cleanup project we have come to Badass Angster. This seems to be a clear case of a People Sit On Chairs trope: Despite what the trope tries to claim, the badass and angst aspects do not seem to actually affect one another, making it a mere combination of two tropes. The aspects neither complement nor contrast each other. Thus, I state that I do not find this page to actually be tropeworthy.

I do not recommend a cut, however, as it has 90 inbounds. Instead, I suggest we follow the precedent of Badass Furry and turn it into a redirect to Badass.

Have to agree w/redirect. This does not seem like it should have its own page.

Agree with removing the page, but maybe the redirect should point to one of the angst tropes.

The only thing I could potentially see is that being angsty is generally an indication that the character not a badass, and this is a sort of a subversion of that view. However, that's not how the trope is used, and I don't think that implication is true anyway.

Also, a lot of examples are without context.

I don't see anything to save here, except for the inbounds.

This one's a trope. It's hard to find a lead character of a hard-boiled detective novel of 90s comic book that isn't an example.

And they do compliment each-other. The angst fuels the badass-ness. Allow Batman to demonstrate.◊

edit: look at that, the Badass page says the same thing

"Badass Angster: He/She might have a few reasons to get depressed, but they compensate by using their anger or despair as fuel for their asskicking escapades."

edited 11th Apr '12 8:25:58 PM by abk0100

Support.

Sounds more like it's "power fueled by rage" (which surprisingly isn't a trope yet) or "emotions", or some sort of mental disability. Also Batman's "my parents are dead" angst has a tendency more to be parodied/played for laughs rather being legit.

I think there's a trope in here somewhere, but it needs to be divorced from Badass just like most Badass "sub-tropes" should be.

What are you suggesting we remake it to? Are you perhaps thinking of Hurting Hero or something?

Maybe a subtrope of that? Something like Tough Angster.

Yeah, maybe Angst Power or something similar.

Well it would be a sub trope or related trope of Emotional Bruiser.... Angsty Bruiser?

God the example list is so small... tempted to add quite a few examples... like the example list on Dark Magical Girl *

edited 13th Apr '12 3:45:13 AM by Raso

That seems like a different trope, in any case. If someone wants to take that to YKTTW that's fine, but I think we ought to get rid of this trope and redirect it somewhere more worthwhile to save the inbounds.

This page is note trope worthy as we define it. Badass isn't even a trope. Not alone, not any more than "hot" or "cool". What is makes someone hot, or handsome? Everyone has a different opinion beyond symmetrical face(and not even at that always). What makes something cool? What you think is cool another person may hate to death.

What is badass, something that impresses you. But what impresses you doesn't impress everybody. Angst, angst has a much more objective meaning. Complaints and pouts about something bad that happened to them. Whether or not angst is good or bad, whether or not angst makes someone less impressive, less "badass" is your opinion. And on a Wiki your opinion is irrelevant.

All examples should just be put on angst and be done with it. We don't need "angst, but he's still badass dammit!" because there is nothing about angst that inherently implies "not bad ass", just because a few people think it does. If you want to salvage a new trope page out of this, I suggest going back to You Know The Thing Where.

That is the only trope worthy aspect of this IMO. Bad Ass Broken Bird then?

I'd prefer to write the trope be written not from the direction of a character but rather an action. As in, it's not a character who does something, it's the action itself. In this case, the action is turning grief, frustration etc. into power and determination. Thus, rather than another badass subtrope it would instead be something like Fueled By Angst.

I don't know, most if not all are defined by this... The person is broken, bad things have happened, agonizing over X but still they fight possibly out for revenge or just trying to continue on but still kicking ass may be The Atoner or such. Which is why I like Angsty Bruiser.

IE Cloud in Final Fantasy VII Advent Children, Cure Moonlight in Heartcatch Precure, Fate in Nanoha (the last two are Dark Magical Girl s which IMO is a subtrope of this.) Which is the way most of the examples are written.

Fueled By Angst would seem to be quite different than that this but related to or even might as well be the same as Fueled By Rage. (I thought we had that one?)

edited 20th Apr '12 7:21:32 AM by Raso

YKTTW trope aside since that can be taken there at any point, can we agree that this trope as is now warrants a crowner?

What should go into such a crowner?

Probably just state in the at issue section that it's felt by some to be PSOC and then a single proposition over whether to redirect it to a more appropriate trope, which would probably be Badass.

Crowner.

All crownered up.

Ten to one in favor of cutting. A bump and then we can call it in a day or two if it has not reversed itself.

edited 2nd May '12 10:13:10 AM by Arha

Calling crowner in favor of making it a redirect. Chop away.

So, redirect to Badass or does someone have a better idea?