Women Shouldn't Enjoy or Want Sex

There is an undertone in our society that sex is somehow shameful and dirty. It's something to be hidden away.

This goes doubly so for females. A female wanting sex, admitting to having sex, or enjoying sex is somehow more shameful than the same things coming from a male. It was brought up in another thread that the exposé This Film Is Not Yet Rated noted that a woman making an expression that looks like she might be enjoying sex or something sexual is considered racy, even if she's otherwise fully dressed and not engaged in anything sexual.

Heck, we have a whole raft of tropes about this, including My Girl Is Not a Slut and Death By Sex (which specifically notes that it's the female who always dies - the male is less likely to do so).

It is true that females are less likely to get as much enjoyment out of sex as males. However, it's a pretty damn big leap to go from "some get less enjoyment" to "women hate sex" or "women shouldn't like sex."

How is it that this outdated and frankly sexist belief is still so prevalent?

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

My female friends tell me that women don't enjoy sex any less than men - it's just that they enjoy different forms and/or aspects of it, and are a little more subtle in communicating their desires.

Anyway, there are many possible explanations for the idea that

What I think is the most plausible explanation - but bear in mind I'm quite a cynical person, as well as mildly sexually frustrated - runs as follows. It is obvious that most cultures have for a long time been dominated by males (and many still are); thus, most ideas on sexual morality come from a male perspective. And us males, we like to play power games with women. Being able to "conquer" or "lay claim to" a woman is a sign of power and social status; having an active sex life says you're succesful, and perhaps even Badass. There is often a strong hierarchy in male peer groups, especially among teenagers, and what you are and aren't allowed to do with female friends (pat on the shoulder, hug, quick peck on the cheek, etc.) can be an indicator of your place in the hierarchy.

Imagine a small, mixed, all-single group of friends or casual acquaintances sitting in a bar. If one of the guys casually slips his arm about the girl next to him - assuming she allows it - he's not just showing her affection, he's also sending off a powerful signal of 'Better luck next time, suckers!' to any other guys who might desire her. That's all part of the game.

(Disclaimer: I am not saying that this is the only way men think about women. We can love a woman, or genuinely desire her just for her, rather than as a status symbol. But the element of status and power is definitely present as well.)

Anyway, to get to the point: if you throw women's own desires into the mix, the power games mentioned above become unpredictable, confusing and Nintendo Hard. The tidy social order and hierarchy men have built up through endless jostling degenerates into a mess. To use a blunt metaphor, it's like playing chess with pieces that move around of their own accord. That's my best guess as to why women's sexual desires are suppressed.

edited 27th Mar '12 3:01:26 PM by MidnightRambler

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

Hmm, I should have been more clear on that part. Women are less likely to enjoy the actual intercourse part as much as men, inasmuch as they're less likely to orgasm. Certainly not all women enjoy all parts of sex less than men. :P My bad.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Do you have a source for that

Dutch Lesbian

• 75% of women can't achieve an orgasm from intercourse alone.
• 15% of women have trouble having an orgasm, and only 29% always experience an orgasm during sex.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Thousands upon thousands of years of social/religious conditioning in the West is my best guess. Most of the ancestor civilizations that we take inspiration from such as the Ancient Greeks, Rome, the Carolingian Empire (or Holy Roman Empire if you prefer that term) had rather horrifically repressive/abusive treatment of women and their sexuality/reproduction as the norm, and the laws, traditions, and baggage they passed down still exist and are being dealt with. Hell, I'm pretty sure that in all 3 of those societies listed honor killings of a daughter that was sexually active and the stoning/execution of a cheating wife was considered the obvious and natural way of things.

Meanwhile the men were runnign around with all the whores, concubines, harems, little boys, etc that they wanted. So how do you keep your wife from doing something while you're running around all the time with whomever you want? Society discouraging women from wanting/enjoying sex. (Except for the ones we want to sleep with, hence the emergence of multiple tropes and beliefs such as the Madonna/Whore complex, the belief that there are girls to sleep with for fun but you don't marry those types and go for the good, pure virgin instead, etc.)

The general religious trend of "women should obey their husbands/fathers as they would god" certainly doesn't help much.

In the end, it's all blanket hypocrisy. It's all about men wanting rigid order and control but wanting to fuck all they want as well, without being made a fool of or having to wonder if those kids the wife popped out are really theirs and whether their progeny/familial legacy will continue. Of course, conservative political types and conservative religions/religious folk tend to like that sort of order and control and revere the status quo so they're reluctant to allow any loosening up or advances.

As a little by the by, I think the media we consume often reinforce those ideas, sometimes in unexpected ways. For example, the widespread tendency in comedies to portray sex as lackluster for women because men are clueless and unskilled, while a Take That! to patriarchy and such, is still playing into the theme of women can't enjoy and therefore shouldn't or don't want sex.

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |

Just in the west? I dont really think any culture told women to go and sleep around as much as they wanted. Certainly not in the middle east, nor India as far as I know.

I'm baaaaaaack

Well, it's worth noting that in Ancient Greece, despite the patriarchal society it was considered common sense that women enjoyed sex more than men. This was part of a general sexist conception that men are rational while women are emotional, but it's certainly wrong to say that all societies discouraged women from enjoying sex. Some thought they enjoyed it entirely too much.

Agreed. Though, on the other hand, Plato (if memory serves me right, might be another) at least considered that heterosexual relationships were purely for reproduction purposes, and that men should should sexual pleasure among themselves. So yeah, they might get more pleasure out of it, but you shouldn't care for them anymore than you already do in any other part of your life, which is pretty much none.

Regarding the actual subject, well, I think Midnight Rambler pretty much said it all. Men were owners, women were commodities. It's put in question today, albeit rather timidly in compareason with how much women, and sexuality at large are being objectified for marketing purposes.

Quick question. Is it still prevalent?

Please.

Just sticking to what I know best, I don't presume to make generalizations about cultures and religions I only know bits and pieces about.

More than I'd like, certainly. It's at the heart of things like the archtypical Betty and Veronica love triangles for heroes where he's faced with the sweet, pure Girl Next Door versus the hot girl who flaunts her good looks and such. (And thus is usually bad.) Then you have things like "slut shaming", the whole double standard of a guy who has lots of sex is a stud while a girl who does so is a whore, or even of the Rush Limbaugh attack on Ms. Fluke. (Despite the fact that she was talking about her friend needing the birth control pill to regulate chronic health conditions.)

Etc.

edited 27th Mar '12 2:33:15 PM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |

Unsurprisingly, Plato believed in Platonic love. The meaning of which has decayed over time in the modern term "platonic relationship", but the basic idea is that love should be more rational than hormonal.

I was about to write a sarcastic post about the numerous benefits you enjoy simply by virtue of having dangly bits, but I don't think it would really be useful. Suffice to say that yes, yes is it relevant. The western society is still catering mainly for men. A lot. Be it in term of more restrictive behavourial standards, more limited propective adult life, or other things, you are cleary better off being a man.

edited 27th Mar '12 2:36:45 PM by Sable

Heaven loves ya
The clouds part for ya
Nothing stands in your way
When you're a boy!

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

Please.

Y'know, if you're correcting people, it might help if you had your spelling down yourself.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

I don't care about her*

spelling. I care about how they read my post. They assumed somethings about me that made them believe that I was deserving of sarcasm. I wouldn't mind that either. They then decided to mention they were going to write a sarcastic post. Fuck that. So I wrote a rhyming one.

And feel free to tell me my errors. I don't mind and I feel better knowing that I have learned, and hopefully, will do it correctly later.

edited 27th Mar '12 3:25:55 PM by TheDeadMansLife

Please.

Let's keep it on topic, please.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

As to it still being around, yes. Several people have already pointed out instances where it occurs modernly, including myself in the OP.

Probably the biggest indicator that this is still around is that there is a social stigma attached to women who express a desire for sex, especially if they have sex regularly with multiple partners. Such a woman is likely to be labeled "slut", "whore", "easy", or some other derogatory term. A man expressing the same desires or sleeping around is thought of as normal at worst, and a "stud" at best.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

'Slut' is how we shame women for exercising their right to say yes. 'Friendzone' is how we shame women for exercising their right to say no.

I can't for the life of me remember the origin of that quote, but I know the point behind it stands. It's not the sex that is vilified, but the choice.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Pfft, then you just aren't doing it right.

Luckily for the women of this world, I am orally fixated.

I can unwrap jolly ranchers with my tongue too.

I think men need to attend a class in high school explaining that no, the clitoris is not a myth. And yes, it works really well.

edited 27th Mar '12 4:57:58 PM by Barkey

Yeah, that's also a very plausible analysis. Any time a woman makes a choice that pisses off a man - whether it's saying 'no' to him or saying 'yes' to someone else - the man will complain. And since the male perspective is still dominant, women are always in the wrong.

If she doesn't want to sleep with you, it hurts, because you don't get the sex you so badly crave. Cue complaints of being 'friendzoned' and 'mercilessly teased' by a 'cold', 'bitchy' woman.

If she does want to sleep with you, but also with lots of other guys, it hurts, because the idea that you're not special to her or that you can't satisfy her is a blow to your ego. Cue insults like 'cheap' and 'slutty'.

The worst is the combination of these two: if she sleeps with everyone except you. This can send you straight into an inferiority complex, because it quite bluntly relays the message, 'You're the least desirable man around'. What happens then is... a little more spectacular.

edited 27th Mar '12 5:24:48 PM by MidnightRambler

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

Didn't wanna say it, but this was my first reaction too. I am a heterosexual male who has never been the first partner to climax in any sexual encounter. It's not that hard gentlemen, really!

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Yeah, don't make this thread be about yourself and don't drop more personal info than is needed to make your point. I'm just gonna edit your post a bit...

edited 27th Mar '12 5:13:32 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Fair enough. I did re-edit it - I put in a Pot Hole for a more coherent ending.

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...