The M Word

This is more of a thought experiment than an actual topic on the X-Men, so I decided to put it here. Also, this seems like the kind of topic that may have been done before, but I'm new here, so I want to hear what people think

Anyway, the M-Word: mutant. Or the derogatory, mutie. Now, I do my best not to be bigoted; I am an 18-year-old black kid who has seen his share of bigotry whether overt, discreet, subtle, accidental, hateful, discriminatory, aloof, etc. I am pro-gay rights, I try to be a feminist, and try to call my friends out on them when they are prejudiced. For the most part, I do my best to give everyone equal treatment, and sometimes I fail, but I think my heart's in the right place.

With that said, what if mutants were real? What if, one day, teenagers starting manifesting strange powers that put them physically above the rest of the human race? And on top of that, some of them (not all, but enough to make the confused scared, and the scared shit their pants) started proclaiming that they were the next step in evolution, that they were the Homo Superior to our Homo Sapien? Many Marvel comics treat bigotry against mutants as just the same as bigotry against blacks or gays or Jews, which is a nice idea in principal, but as Kenny "Kong" Mc Farlane has pointed out, the Jews never had laser beams shooting out of their eyes!

I don't think that sending giant robots to round them up is anywhere near an ethical idea, neither is putting them in jail on-site, but I think that, should this happen in our world, something should be done. Would a mutant registration act be so bad? Would it be so wrong to mandate that mutants not use their powers in certain places? I know that, in part, my feelings for mutants stem from the same feelings that promotes prejudice worldwide: fear. However, it seems like, in this (hypothetical) case, there's actual something real and concrete to be afraid of. As big as I am on equal rights and fair chances, I'm not sure I'd even want to be friends with certain mutants, depending on their powers. I don't want to be around someone who can read my thoughts or drain my life force at the touch.

So, what are your thoughts? Am I wrong? Am I a perpetrator of fantastic racism? What would be an ethical, safe way to deal with the "mutant problem?"

Ah, the darling anthropocentrism. Let them fuck us, as we have fucked the rest of the planet for ages and ages.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

As I've said before in every topic regarding a Super Registration Act, there are always a few problems:

This assumes that whatever category we stick them accurately describes their abilities. What do we do if they suddenly Take a Level in Badass, gain a Shonen Upgrade, gain New Powers as the Plot Demands, or...frankly...just lie? And that's assuming we can accurately classify how their powers work in the first place. (Is Superman's invulnerability due to tough skin or an invisible forcefield? Do Cyclops's eyebeams work by absorbing solar radiation or by opening a portal to a non-Einsteinian universe with infinite energy supplies? No one seems sure.)

We would have to be very specific about the conditions in which a Differently Powered Individual could not use their abilities. Is it cheating for a telepath to use his abilities to know if his corporation is cheating him? Would it be illegal for someone with diamond skin to sell his/her moltings?

Also, I think the biggest problem mutants would face, assuming they're powerful enough to be a consideration in the first place, is slavery. Part of the reason slavery grew out of style in the modern world is because the Industrial Revolutions reduced the need for human labor power. For example, the cotton gin made having a large number of slaves completely unnecessary, so pro-slavery politicians had fewer legs to stand on. But, as soon as you've got a guy who can...say...teleport an army 10,000 miles into a hostile warzone out of nowhere? Yeah. People are gonna want to abuse the shit out of that.

edited 7th Sep '11 12:18:03 PM by KingZeal

Interesting idea. Some of the powers may be dangerous, true... so is a handgun, although the powers could be more destructive and/or devastating than a handgun, and we do have handgun registration. But there's something of a difference between saying an object is dangerous and that a person is dangerous. And they were born with the mutation, they didn't have any more choice about it than you or I.

So. What would I do? I'd first start by talking to the more reasonable mutants - Xavier and co., in this case. Show them that I understand but don't approve of people being afraid of them and shutting them out. That, sure, a mutant who was bent on destruction would be bad news but that I wasn't afraid all of them would be like that - why would they? I'd want to know what they thought of things like registration and limitations on how powers could be used in public, what they thought of the mutants who claimed they were superior and perhaps how we could put up a united front against them and any humans who might want mutants dead out of fear or exploit them. I'd think the worst thing we could possibly do would be to shut them out, because then they'll really have no connection or friends among ordinary homo sapiens, and a reason to hate us besides, and I wouldn't like the prospect of all mutants being ticked off at us. No, make sure they can easily have non-powered friends and be at ease among us and for the most part we should be able to treat them like anyone else.

And maybe they would be the next wave of humanity; still doesn't mean it's a good idea for either them or us to try wiping the other out instead of natural selection.

She of Short Stature & Impeccable Logic My Skating Liveblog

Perhaos a better analogy, which to my dissapointment I haven't heard anyone use, is the right to bear arms. A superpower can be extremely destructive if used wrong, but can be useful or neutral at best. I believe in gun registration, but also freedom to own. It's just good that the police know who has how many of what type of guns, if something happens.

the statement above is false

I think sociopaths/psychopaths/anti-social folk etc. (those who can't empathise with others, I'm not sure of the political correct term) are even better comparison to mutants. They have "superpowers" compared to the rest of us (they wouldn't feel bad about using me, but I would feel bad about using them) and some of them consider themselves as superior people. I wouldn't want to be friends with any of them, because the possibility that they could harm me is greater than with an average joe. If there were a registration for psychopaths, they would just hide their condition. And none of them would ever seek help, which could make things worst. Now I just have to keep my eyes open for the signs of such behavior and avoid contact with people who show those signs, This have worked for me just fine. Can't see why it wouldn't work with telepaths and such.

Specifically, in this case it would be like people carrying around a concealed firearm every moment of every day for the rest of their lives, starting at puberty, and not ending until they're old enough to have developed dementia.

I think the best solution would be to somehow make sure mutants don't become outsiders. If the potential exists for them to get as powerful as some of the mutants in 616, and genocide isn't an option due to the whole "ethics" thing, then society needs to be extremely careful not to alienate them. We'll need to have mutants identify as Americans/Canadians/Brits/Chinese/etc. first, so that the "good" ones don't end up feeling like traitors for opposing the "bad" ones. I'm not sure how to achieve that, though. For starters, I'd say social services need to be prepared for the influx of mutant kids rejected by their families. And we need corporations and governments to be recruiting mutants i.e. not trying to enslave them or cut them up in labs or patent their DNA.

I don't know how the hell to deal with fears about Psychic Powers and other abilities that can be used covertly.

Depends of the mutations and of how incompatible with muggles it makes them. If mutants have the power to make people's brain explode - check for it at birth, round them up and send them in camps. If the powers are less likely to wreak havoc, then either give them their own country if they still can't get along with the muggles, othewise just give them prestigious and well-paying jobs in the military or police or wherever else their powers could be useful - there are probably quite a few high-tech corporations that could fine uses for some powers.

If the powers are useful to society and heritable, it could be worth reinstating good ol' Eugenics and breeding more supers so that they become a bigger part of the population (they're likely to end up as some kind of ruling class anyway), and maximize social harmony by having them go to the same schools as the muggle, encourage cross-erm, cross-mutation adoption (supers adopting muggles and vice-versa), copious propaganda, etc.

It's an interesting question!

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

The good thing about those sorts of people, though, is that they're incapable of becoming one big happy family. They're like comic book supervillains— too prone to backstabbing. Their inclination/ability to cooperate with one another and team up against the rest of us is limited by the same things that keep them from being normal members of society. Because the "superpower" of antisocial personalities derives from a disability.

The most powerful telepaths in the Marvel Universe can read/control your mind from the other side of the planet, if not from another planet. Even the low-power ones don't generally need you to actually see them in order for them to influence or read your mind. Keeping your eyes open is of limited utility against someone who can become Invisible to Normals, wipe your memory, or make you simply not care what they're doing.

edited 7th Sep '11 2:08:12 PM by Tongpu

...what if random (young) people started manifesting powers?

It would be open war. If only because supers would be dangerous and, more importantly, impossible to control. "With great power comes great responsibility" in the comic books. In real life, supers are still people, and people aren't very nice...

It would be less Spider Man and more Watchmen...

I am now known as Flyboy.

Question: What would that accomplish?

Honestly, if we're assuming that the "mutant problem" is the same as in 616 Marvel, then the most effective way of dealing with it would be to have Reed Richards stop being useless. As I've said before, if you have a mutant that—say—teleports by travelling through an alternate dimension, then you could study that sort of ability to find some sort of "panic room" dimension to send the local populace into when there's a catastrophe. In the "Tommorrow" storyline in Superman, the eponymous hero tries to figure out something like this only for something to inevitably go horribly wrong and transport the people of Earth to another dimension accidentally. The story then gives us some ridiculous Informed Wrongness Aesop about how Supes was playing God. But that's unbelievably stupid.

The only real solution to any "mutant problem" will be to slowly advance society to the point where the gap in power becomes miniscule. I'm not saying that Everyone Is a Super is the answer—I'm saying that institutionalizing certain abilities (like, say, using a Force Field reverse-engineered from Superboy's tactile-telekinesis ability to protect collateral damage during super human brawls, would help out greatly.

...so we're drafting superhumans now, are we? That won't backfire on us at all.

Supers would still be people. You can't expect to force them into any kind of service and still think it will work. Likewise, as people, they're still going to be dicks with their powers, so you will end up fighting them a lot.

It would simply not end well no matter how you cut it, because in reality people aren't going to be generous with their powers, more often than not...

I am now known as Flyboy.

Who said anything about force or drafting?

You do it by incentive. They get certain perks/privileges/payment for their voluntary services.

Because dicking around with superpowers the muggles can't feasibly counter isn't going to be more appealing most of the time?

Thing that would scare me the most is Power Perversion Potential...

edited 7th Sep '11 2:22:04 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.

Then replace Mutant Draft Board with "give mutants financial compensation, free health care, prestige, etc. in exchange for being able to study and devise applications for their abilities". People getting paid to be human test subjects is something that already happens in today's world.

Wait, so what's your counterargument?

I'm saying: making an incentive for supers and muggles to work together to improve the world for both parties is the best way to solve the mutant problem.

You responded by scoffing at how ridiculous the idea is without explaining why or what should be done instead.

edited 7th Sep '11 2:25:54 PM by KingZeal

Once again, why have a proper job when you can do whatever you want, and nobody but a very good SWAT Team or, if we're sueing them, the Army, can counter you?

My opinion is that nothing can be done. We either try to be humane and attack them as they become bad, or go the Hitler route and get them as they show up, regardless of actions. It will end poorly no matter what we do...

edited 7th Sep '11 2:27:05 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.

A registry isn't so far out there as to be out of the question. Probably special schools to teach you how to control and safely use your powers. Very tight regulations on when you can use your powers. Expect eugenics to come to the forefront of debate once more.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

Then your objections are moot. If the super is practically unstoppable, then muggles are hosed either way. If the super is stoppable (albeit after much effort and cost), then we still pose a threat to him/her. So we lose absolutely nothing by trying to work with them.

But I honestly doubt it would come to that. Most people want something, and not everything they want can be given by force or duress. For example, lets say Super-Duper-Guy is a fan of King Of The Hill and Street Fighter games. A plausible incentive would be to keep both franchises in production (because, y'know, heat vision and flight doesn't help you make a game or a tv show) so long as we get to study his powers.

If this sounds far-fetched, keep in mind that Kim Jong-il is a huge Michael Jordan fan and personally invited him to come play basketball in his country. Even megalomanics tend to enjoy something.

edited 7th Sep '11 2:35:00 PM by KingZeal

Zeal, I didn't say we couldn't try to do something like that. It isn't going to work out, though. The counterpoint to Comes Great Responsibility is "power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

I am now known as Flyboy.

There is absolutely zero reason to believe it won't work other than pure cynicism.

~shrug~

Not all of them would be bad. I wouldn't be surprised if most were, though. If not because we don't force them to train with the powers, than because we force them to when they want to do other stuff.

Like I said, it can't hurt to try. But Torches and Pitchforks + new eugenics movement + supers vs. governments situations wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

I am now known as Flyboy.

Oh that's going to happen, either way. I'm sure Fantastic Racism is going to come into play somehow, and you'll eventually start getting your Legion of Doom/Brotherhood of Evil Mutant terrorist groups popping up. But again, there's little that can be done about that.

Really, my estimation is that it would become moreso like the feudal system: very powerful and influential people would pretty much work for the government in exchange for some type of compensation. At best, you'll get your Knight in Shining Armor types who only want fair recognition and enough to get by, and at worst you'll get the assholes who do what they're told only so long as the government supplies them enough little boys to rape.

Those types can take a bullet.

I am now known as Flyboy.

@OP: if the mutants had superpowers? Kill Them All. They are simply too dangerous to be allowed to live.

edited 7th Sep '11 3:36:34 PM by joeyjojo

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