Removing Gushing from the Wiki

But many writers make their villains intentionally cool and likeable, or dispicible and hateable. And many viewers expect these to come out of their favorite show. It’s not really exceptional or anything, in the same way Evil Is Sexy was.

It’s literally listed in thousands of work page's YMM Vs like it’s special, when the fact it has all those listings makes it mundane.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 19th 2024 at 3:02:44 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

I tend to agree. Villains being likable is nothing new. There's a reason many actors love playing bad guys, they often get the best lines and performances that are outside of the compartively smaller "box" heroes get put in.

Even the most vicious and hatable villains are often written to be charismatic and "interesting" in a likable way.

There's a common snowclone meme about people liking villains.

"But he/she/they murdered a bunch of people."

"...And? He/she/they looked good doing it."

I mean, there can be a debate on the merits of the trope if a wick check is done, but my point is that hero love is the expected while villain love is often seen as strange. This is why Draco in Leather Pants and Ron the Death Eater exist. It being mundane isn't the issue; whether or not it was intended by the creators is (that's why I brought up Evil Is Sexy, not because it was a common opinion but because most characters are sexy by default).

Either way, this thread can't do anything about Evil Is Cool aside from fix gushy examples. I was just trying to answer one of the questions you posed, not really debate about the purpose of Evil Is Cool as a YMMV concept.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 19th 2024 at 6:39:59 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I think there's a more diverse range of entries to be written for Evil Is Cool since they can talk about specific evil actions and behaviors that imprss people, while Evil Is Sexy at best relies on the same correlations between "evil" and "sexiness" which are usually already their own tropes.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

And you know, tropes couldnt help being creepy and gushing too much about how Dr Doofenshmirtz is a sex god...Or something.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Evil Is Sexy was actually barely gushy. It was mostly just intentional character design stuff, or potholes for random characters.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I dont see why we got rid of it then. Oh well I love my post.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

This is why.

I only brought it up because it had problems that didn't carry into Evil Is Cool — specifically in the way that eve the subjective version of it was chairs-y in a way Evil Is Cool isn't.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Alright, what about Love to Hate? I think that is one that writers expect to have their audiences have to their villains. I just don’t know if "good villain” is really something that’s worth mentioning.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 22nd 2024 at 8:55:08 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Not necessarily. if an author creates a perfectly serviceable Dastardly Whiplash and the audience doesn't like or has an indifferent reaction to them, that would mean Love to Hate doesn't apply. Love to Hate isn't about "good villains", it's about villains whose evil actions make you want to see them get their ass kicked even harder and who are so despicably evil they're even more entertaining to watch.

It's not about the gold; it's about the glory.

Again, this isn't the place to discuss tropes. If you want to get into this, use Trope Talk.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

In YMMV.Hazbin Hotel, under Just Here for Godzilla:

• People who do not like the show's constant use of swearing and vulgar humor will watch it solely for Alastor precisely because he's the only character who doesn't swear and is therefore considered to be the most entertaining, well-written, and tolerable amongst all of the cast.

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or the bashing thread, but I decided it's slightly more "Alastor is the best!" and slightly less "the rest of the show sucks". Remove the bolded part, rewrite or cut entirely? While Alastor is popular, and the point is valid, this probably goes a bit too far.

Bolded part removed.

Edited by Azorius24 on Jan 24th 2024 at 7:17:10 PM

"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".

Yes, it needs to be removed. The rest of the cast are considered just as likable going by reviews.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Yeah Hazbin has gained a hatedom recently who dislike the show's vulgar humor and make fun of the show for that. Of course, people who are in the hatedom would probably not watch the show at all, since even if one character is the opposite of that you would still have to watch the rest of the characters that they dislike.

In light of some recent revelations about Chuggaaconroy, now is a good time to address the gushy tone on the subpages for him and The Runaway Guys.

Keet cleanup

I'm not sure about this part from the description of Myst. Is this too gushy? At least, it's a bit bashy towards its imitators.

Hqamilicious

These are Sleeper Hit and Follow the Leader. Work descriptions normally don't include reception.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Yeah, the article shouldn't include reception, good or bad.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

Alright, I removed parts of the description that talk about the reception.

Edited by Hqami on Jan 26th 2024 at 10:09:58 PM

Hqamilicious

This example from Fandom Heresy seems to be rather gushy towards Persona 3 Reload and also has a section that comes across as Complaining About People Not Liking the Show.

• Even if one is justified with the complaints considering the hype surrounding it, it is never a good idea to criticize anything about Persona 3 Reload in front of said game's fans, whether it is about genuine technical problems like improper optimization and tendency to crash as reported by several players, certain unnecessary content changes/censorship despite promises of the remake being faithful to the original (or at least FES), the game not being worth $70 due to said problems and less than expected presentation alongside near-lack of improvement to most existing game mechanics (like S. Links in general still only mostly serving as Bonus EXP upon Persona fusion and obtaining ultimate Personas from their respective Arcana instead of adding something new like in Persona 5), or something about the game not matching personal preference (like disliking the more sterilized graphics, the music, or especially the new English voice cast). The Reload fandom will deflect by saying that there is nothing wrong or the problem is from the complainer, then the complaint is discarded. Do not even try at all if one is a FeMC fan, or prepare to be called "whiny" or have some Ken jokes thrown at the complainer.

There's so much I wish I could take back.

Yeah that's just myopic as hell. Kill it with fire.

"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her)

Done.

There's so much I wish I could take back.

I'm not familiar with this book series at all, but the description of The Far Pavilions is more gushing about the series and the author (and putting emphasis on the success of the books) than the actual plot summary.

I feel like this entire paragraph can be cut, for example.

Edited by Zazie122 on Feb 24th 2024 at 5:41:07 AM

Avatar: Amethio (Pokemon Horizons)

Yikes. There's plenty of gushing to cut from the first two paragraphs, too.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

A lot of the page itself is poorly written too, with many ZCEs, natter, more gushing, and minor grammar mistakes. There are also several times a trope is listed and the example is "Aversion, this other thing happens instead", like with Mighty Whitey (I believe?), where there's absolutely no reason to have the trope there at all.

I commented out some of what I listed above and fixed most of the grammar issues, but I'm too tired at the moment to do a proper read over, since there are a lot of tropes. Honestly, most of them just need minor tweaking and it's far from the worst page I've come across or anything, but it could definitely do with an overall touch-up too.

The description's gushing is excessive, however.

Edited by Zazie122 on Feb 25th 2024 at 7:55:03 AM

Avatar: Amethio (Pokemon Horizons)