It's not it's own genre.: Real Robot Genre

I am sorry, I was not aware that the inspiration for a work changed whether the work was Eastern or Western.

It really does not matter in the least. They (except Chromehounds :/) are Western works using the Mecha genre.

That was said with complete sincerity. Sorry, I think I am rather tired.

Transformers is just as Japanese as it is American. More so, even.

The only one on your list that really counts as Western Real Robot is Battletech.

And I never said there weren't western examples, but trying to say that this is a genre used equally in Japan and in America is silly, its clearly used in Japanese productions in a vastly larger scale.

Just like how there are way more American Super Hero works than any other.

For some context, an example of a Mecha anime that is neither Real Robot nor Super Robot is Zoids. Mostly because the Mecha in this case are animal-shaped.

Also Escaflowne, BigO and BreakBlade. BigO is almost literally Batman with a Humongous Mecha. Escaflowne's Mecha are completely magic-powered, and for the most part so are Break Blade's. Magic Mecha is something of a subgenre in it's own right, as there are many examples of it, another being Magic Knight Rayearth.

We should make the Mecha Show a better index which is a soft split, explaining the difference between Super Robot and Real Robot genres, and having a place to put all the other Mecha series. Magitech Mecha could possibly be an additional subtrope, thought it's not exactly recognized as a collective like the other two are. Its various series are definitely in communication, though.

edited 5th Aug '11 4:21:57 AM by NoirGrimoir

Soft splitting Mecha Show makes sense to me. AFAIK, there are no super robot or real robot shows which aren't mecha shows, so it should be achievable. Then Real Robot and Super Robot could be reserved for the robots themselves.

I really think we need to step away from all this genre/subgenre/sub-sub genre stuff. Genres can have multiple influences and fall into multiple categories, so such a rigid categorisation simply isn't feasible.

Allow me to add a variety of RP Gs, Gear Krieg/Heavy Gear, Earthsiege series...I could go on.

Western Real Robot is actually pretty distinct from Japanese in flavor, because it's usually rooted in wargames, with a better grasp of tactics, a more realistic presentation of the background material, and more "balanced" between various types of combatant. If you'd like specific examples, that can be arranged.

Zoids is Real Robot (even got into SRW!), Big O is a classic Super Robot, and Break Blade (though I haven't watched it) is Real-ish from what I've seen.

I still think it's best to focus the page on the setting. Because there's not really a standard, independent plot structure that goes with this. The majority of the time, it's going to be a military style plot: two armies of robots fight to the death, season with reasons, angst, themes, and mech designs as desired.

I mean, Super Robot has a fairly standard plot structure, at least in the ones I've seen: Monster of the Week attacks, Super Robot shows up and does battle, some collateral damage, maybe An Aesop or a Chekhov's Skill was learned that episode. And there's got to be a Finishing Move.

On Big O: I'd say it more accurately fits the Super Robot Genre, but is actually a very powerful Real Robot, but [[spolier:the show is set After the End after all the others have been destroyed and the cities are just rebuilding]].

Break Blade is Magitek Real Robot for the most part. The "Broken Blade Mech" is just a Super Prototype compared to the others.

I still think genres are much easier to divvy up if we set it up as a mix and match components deal.

How in the world do you classify Big-O as a Real Robot? There is nothing "real" about it. It runs on whoknowswhatium, pulls new abilities out of its ass, and basically acts like a super hero.

The only possible contention is that yes, it was technically mass produced, but there have been Mass Produced Super Robots before (Getters, for example. And no, there is absolutely no way Getter Robo is a Real Robot)

It needs to reload ammo for it's missiles, it was mass produced, it's generally in for repairs when not deployed. Having an unlimited energy supply is a hell of a form of phlebotinum, particularly compared to other Real Robots, but the bot itself strikes me as a phenomenally powerful Real Robot. It definitely is Super Robot Genre though.

Those things aren't unheard of in Super Robot shows, just less common.

Again, genre is not exact, and it's not objective. There will be borderline cases. To argue about what goes where and what makes a genre a genre is just splitting hairs.

I blame the in-exactness on peoples inability to separate a plot from a setting.

Anyway, so how to build the genre page. My personal preference is to lead with an intro, followed by common plots and settings, followed by an index of works that qualify.

Sounds good to me.

Copied the basic write up over to Sandbox.Real Robot Genre, filled in a bit on both tropes and two works I knew off the top of my head. Once we build this up, can we do a transplant back or do we have to get Eddie?

Other common tropes let's see...

Minovsky Particle, Bridge Bunnies, Gundam Jack, Super Prototype, Bridge Bunnies, New Type, Gray Vs Black Morality, Falling into the Cockpit, Char Clone, War Is Hell, Shrike Team, Superweapon, Launch Sequence, Stock Footage, Laser Blade, Mid-Season Upgrade,

edited 5th Aug '11 10:18:37 AM by Raso

Impossibly Graceful Giant is not a consistent Real Robot trope, and its aversion is often used as evidence of Real Robot-ness. (The Impossibly Graceful Giant page actually mentions this.)

I again assert that some kind of writeup regarding the differences of the trope's use in Western/Eastern settings is probably neccesary.

Actually you know what? We should completely drop this and Super Robot and make some kind of "sliding scale of mecha" trope to get this working. That seems to be what we're really looking for here, since you get Real and Super robots in the same series a lot in anime.

edited 5th Aug '11 10:17:02 AM by Night

I strongly recommend that we should leave out the "subgenre of military sci-fi" bit; like Sakurazaki said, that's not inherently the case, and anyway, mecha is widely regarded as a genre, not a setting. Genre doesn't mean plot or setting. It doesn't have to be anything to do with either, and it can involve both.

Since it was Eddie who made the change, I think we should probably consult him before finalising this to make sure he's OK with it.

I looked at the sandbox article. It looks like it is about a real-robot genre, so I'm down with that.

Please nuke the custom titles for Real Robot and so on, so we can use that to refer to the actual robots.

The best way, essentially to decide if what you are watching is Real Robot or Super Robot, is which type the main character has. That's basically the fastest way. It's not 100% accurate but it will help you ball park.

I have read the manga and watched the anime and the Mecha in Break Blade are half-magic, half-diesel, so it's Magic Mecha. They get treated very much like Real Robot though, which is interesting.

My take on Big O is that it's so many other things that trying to call it either super robot or real robot is kind of pointless, like Neon Genesis Evangelion.

And I thought to be real robot or super robot the Mecha had to be humanoid?

edited 5th Aug '11 12:43:37 PM by NoirGrimoir

There is nothing stopping Break Blade from both having magic-powered mecha, and being Real Robot.

As for Big-O, its obviously a Super Robot in a Super Robot setting. Its not a grey-area at all.

Then what's the point of saying that not all mecha count as super robot or real robot when apparently all of them do?

And wouldn't the fact that the mecha literally and clearly is stated to run on magic automatically make Break Blade a Super Robot?

^^^ The word for 'real robots' is 'robots.'

But this is a specific sub-genre. "Robot" would indicate that it includes things like Asimov's Robots stories, which aren't this genre.