Suggestion for some of the tropes: Competitive Balance get usage counts

Total posts: [96]
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1 SalFishFin16th Jul 2011 04:49:21 PM from on top of Your Mum , Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
Namely

I was thinking we could illustrate them ourselves with a bunch of graphs. All of these refer to the same 3 stats: Attack, Defense, and Speed. All we have to do is make an graph for each one to make them uniform.

edited 16th Jul '11 4:49:31 PM by SalFishFin

3DS FC for PKMN & Smash:5472-8792-6103
With Mod Hat On
Nuked the duplicate. Sorry for the wait.
3 Deboss16th Jul 2011 05:21:34 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I think it would be best to have five concentric pentagons.

I think it should be Speed, Range Atk, Melee Atk, Health, Defense. We could add tow more if we wanted, Atk Speed and Special.
4 SalFishFin16th Jul 2011 05:49:58 PM from on top of Your Mum , Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
Yeah, but the ones I listed are all concern the same 3 stats: Speed, Power, and Durability. We can probably have a ton of stats for The Mario, though, to show its rounded nature, but otherwise, adding extra stats would be... extra.
3DS FC for PKMN & Smash:5472-8792-6103
5 Deboss16th Jul 2011 06:17:30 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Well, the problem is that most of them only mention two.
6 SalFishFin16th Jul 2011 08:46:16 PM from on top of Your Mum , Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
Point.

So if I'm reading this right:

3DS FC for PKMN & Smash:5472-8792-6103
7 Deboss16th Jul 2011 11:32:58 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I don't think that Fragile Speedster overlaps with Glass Cannon very often. Normally, a Fragile Speedster does damage by hitting a bunch of times really fast, while a Glass Cannon hits like a sledgehammer. From my experience.
8 SalFishFin21st Jul 2011 06:11:14 AM from on top of Your Mum , Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
So should we change Fragile Speedster to "High Speed/Low Power/Low Durability?"
3DS FC for PKMN & Smash:5472-8792-6103
...no. It's fine as it is. Besides, it can overlap with Glass Cannon.
10 Deboss21st Jul 2011 01:34:53 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
That's the problem, while they can overlap, it's not necessary for the trope.
11 Earnest21st Jul 2011 09:08:05 PM from Monterrey, Mexico , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Happy puppy
First try, very open to suggestions. I can post the excel sheet if anyone wants it.

"With All Your Colors Combined, I am Captain Spreadsheet!"

edited 21st Jul '11 9:08:21 PM by Earnest

12 Deboss21st Jul 2011 09:25:35 PM from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
I don't think that's the way it was though of.
13 Earnest22nd Jul 2011 05:04:53 AM from Monterrey, Mexico , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Happy puppy
How was it thought of?

Later: Oh, you mean the pentagons? Yeah... I tried that, and the overlap is murder on the eyes. I suppose we could try six separate pentagons. I'll post those results later just for reference.

edited 22nd Jul '11 5:37:42 AM by Earnest

14 Earnest22nd Jul 2011 05:37:17 AM from Monterrey, Mexico , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Happy puppy
And here's a pentagon spread. Really, side by side would be the only way, because no amount of careful stacking would stop at least some obstructive overlap.

edited 22nd Jul '11 5:45:40 AM by Earnest

15 Willbyr22nd Jul 2011 05:52:25 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up] Argh, those are a mess...the first graph is much better.
I like pentagon graphs better in general...can you do one graph for each trope, and put them all next to each other?
17 SalFishFin22nd Jul 2011 09:06:19 AM from on top of Your Mum , Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
[up]That's more along the lines of what I was thinking. Except I meant to have the graphs put on the actual pages. I say this because of the images on those pages, the only relevant one is of a trading card.

Also, I believe that there was a trope called "Glass Ninja" which was about "Fast, Hits hard, but isn't durable." I can't seem to find it though.

edited 22nd Jul '11 9:30:37 AM by SalFishFin

3DS FC for PKMN & Smash:5472-8792-6103
18 Willbyr22nd Jul 2011 09:18:12 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Let's see the individual graphs and we can go from there.
19 SalFishFin22nd Jul 2011 09:36:05 AM from on top of Your Mum , Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
Here's what I was thinking:

Glass Cannon, for example
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20 Willbyr22nd Jul 2011 10:09:54 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
[up] That's not bad, but I think I lean toward the pentagons strictly because they give a broader range of stats.
21 SalFishFin22nd Jul 2011 10:30:47 AM from on top of Your Mum , Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
But the larger number of stats is unnecessary to the trope description. "HP" and "Defense" are both covered by "Durability" and all of those "Attack" Stats are covered by "Power." It's much more concise.

We could add a bunch more "Stats" for The Mario, but otherwise, we don't need more than the three that I listed.
3DS FC for PKMN & Smash:5472-8792-6103
BWAAAH!
[up] No, because just three makes the Lightning Bruiser seem OP when he's usually limited by range.

I think we should do four stats instead of three or five, namely Speed, Durability, Range, and Power. Melee power is more implicit when you see that a character lacks range.

edited 22nd Jul '11 12:08:33 PM by TweedlyDee

23 SalFishFin22nd Jul 2011 12:29:15 PM from on top of Your Mum , Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
[up]"They may, however, be balanced by having other weaknesses, such as a total lack of range or magical capability"

Emphasis mine.

I can attest to the fact that the Lightning Bruiser isn't always "balanced" like that. Example: Hector from Fire Emblem. I could send him at any group of enemies I wanted taken out, no matter if they were magic users or Melee attackers using the most powerful weapons at their disposal, and he'd get double attacks on all of them (barring a Swordmaster) because of his high speed, take Scratch Damage at best from anyone he didn't manage to dodge because of his high defense, and still kill anyone in one turn with the weakest weapons he has because of his high strength. Hell, even a Killing Edge Swordmaster who got two critical hits couldn't take him out because his HP was ridiculous. He was a Lightning Bruiser through and through, and literally nothing could stop him.

edited 22nd Jul '11 12:29:47 PM by SalFishFin

3DS FC for PKMN & Smash:5472-8792-6103
24 Catalogue22nd Jul 2011 12:54:14 PM from where the good times are
A pocketful of saudade.
I say we take the "messy pentagon" thing Earnest made, convert it to a triangle, and make six of them each corresponding to just one trope?
The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.
25 Earnest22nd Jul 2011 03:42:42 PM from Monterrey, Mexico , Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Happy puppy
These are some tall orders, so I'm dividing them up into posts. Here are the pentagons. I can play with Mario and Bruiser to make them not take up the whole field, maybe add a new series and make it invisible to contrast better.

Total posts: 96
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