Clear Up Definition and Correct Misuse: Urban Fantasy

Or we could rename this Mainstream Urban fantasy and then have an example-less page with the board definition.

edited 3rd Nov '11 12:14:26 PM by Vyctorian

Could someone explain the problem to me? I don't get it. From the name, isn't Urban Fantasy just fantasy that centers around an urban setting? Is it that difficult to tell if a story's main setting is urban or not? What does time period have to do with it? I mean, for what it's worth, the Wikipedia page says that many examples of Urban Fantasy have a contemporary setting, but not all.

edited 11th Nov '11 4:59:04 AM by MacFluffers

No, Urban Fantasy isnt just any fantasy that is centered on an urban enviroment. That is a major component, but it isn't sufficient in itself to be a part of it.

Any definition that has Thieves World inside the boundary is insufficient.

To me, Urban Fantasy means a fantasy that's set in the urban era (i.e. the time when most people started living in cities instead of in rural areas), but there's no one solid definition of the term. Try reading The Urban Fantasy Anthology sometime; four different authors wrote introductions for it, they all spend a fair bit of time explaining how they define Urban Fantasy, and none of them completely agree with each other.

The "Urban" in an Urban fantasy isn't referring to a setting, really, it's referring to the fact that the fantasy characteristics are integrated into a modern, urban world. Urban Fantasies aren't required to happen in big cities, they just do because nothing interesting happens out int he boonies.

edited 11th Nov '11 4:17:28 PM by NoirGrimoir

Many things classified as urban fantasy are still set in rural area, those rural areas just have cell signal, wi fi and walmart these days.

edited 12th Nov '11 4:33:00 AM by Vyctorian

Then shouldn't we change the name? "Urban Fantasy" is very misleading, since the term is sometimes used to refer only to fantasy with urban settings, as shown by the fact that contemporary and urban fantasy are different Wikipedia pages.

What's wrong with "Contemporary Fantasy" or "Modern Fantasy"?

"Urban" means "city". Unless the definition of the trope explicitly refers to cities and cannot be defined without their mention, it's a bad title.

Well, Urban Fantasy is the industry term, so we can't do a lot about it.

Is it really used that extensively to refer to works with contemporary settings? Wikipedia has contemporary and urban fantasy as different pages, so I thought that wasn't the case.

edited 13th Nov '11 9:14:56 AM by MacFluffers

It really is. Depending on who you ask you're going to get a dozen different definitions of the term. Sometimes it's anything set in a city. Sometimes it's anything set on modern day Earth with everything set before now as Historical Fantasy. Sometimes it's just anything with a certain vibe.

In the most common view of things, Urban Fantasy is fantasy happing now on Earth. Things set earlier are more Historical Fantasy.

edited 13th Nov '11 9:22:01 AM by shimaspawn

That's...silly. But why is that stopping us from changing the name to something clearer? If there are multiple definitions to that term, shouldn't we use something else?

Since Urban Fantasy is a pre-existing term, our Urban Fantasy page should reflect how other people use it. If other people use it in contradictory ways, then our Urban Fantasy page will just have to be very broad and inclusive.

Agreed. Urban fantasy is quickly becoming one of fantasy's biggest sub-genres so big it has it's own sub-genres at this point.

Yes, I think the fact that Historical Fantasy is being split off more and more as a subgenre of it is part of the confusion we've had defining it. As it stands, that page is Urban Fantasy, but historical instead of present day. As that is a commonly accepted division, I think we can define Urban Fantasy as the broader genre with all the non-modern settings going there.

I have actually heard Urban Fantasy called 'Modern Fantasy' a few times.

How do you tell the difference between Urban Fantasy and superhero settings? I thought some of the entries on the Not Wearing Tights page, such as Death Note, were Urban Fantasy.

Death Note is a stretch, since it misses lots of superhero conventions.

That sounds like a shoehorned example of Not Wearing Tights more then anything else. I have no direct knowledge of Death Note, but from everything I've ever read about it on here, it's got nothing to do with superheroes, costumed or otherwise.

I wouldn't put Death Note anywhere near superhero. Besides it's a supernatural thriller.

Death Note has nothing whatsoever to do with superheroes. Whoever added that there was a moron.

So should we sandbox a write up?

edited 9th Dec '11 8:35:03 PM by NoirGrimoir

We should think up parameters first, without having to resort to a TRS thread. That example makes a good argument...but it isn't true.

I thought that was what the crowner was for.

I'm talking about Not Wearing Tights.

No one in Death Note goes out vigilante-style to fight crime using powers. Light has more in common with a Serial Killer than a Super Hero or even Super Villain. L has more in common with Sherlock Holmes than he does with Batman. There is no intersection with superheroes whatsoever.

edited 9th Dec '11 10:04:07 PM by NoirGrimoir

I've gone ahead and deleted the Death Note example from Not Wearing Tights. Can we get back on topic now?