Definition unclear: Gainax Ending

The only real reason I would oppose renaming this is that it's repeatedly failed renaming attempts in the past. What's changed between then and now?

Failure to be renamed in the past does not indicate that the name does not have issues. Nakama failed numerous times despite obvious issues.

But if you can't come up with a new issue, then its just stacking the vote until you get the one you want. For nakama, a number of new arguments were brought up, including the fact that the name was simply wrong. Like nrjxll said: What's changed since last time for this one?

Nothing, so far as I know. However, with only one vote done, so far as I know, I don't think implications of vote stacking are really warranted. If it was something that came through frequently like The Mario used to*

I mind put more credence to such an argument, but at the moment I find it to be perfectly plausible that the previous rename attempt may have been flawed in some manner. Perhaps a bunch of diehard fans of the name said 'No, I don't want to rename this no matter what.'

Either way, what previous rename attempts did or did not accomplish should not have any bearing on what your decision should be for this attempt at a rename.

edited 7th Oct '11 2:26:15 PM by Arha

What about the revised description from like three pages ago? Are we using that, or cutting out the Troubled Production aspects, or leaving the current page as it is, or what?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Well, whatever. Here is the rename crowner. If we don't rename, we can simply remove the paragraph and call it good. If we rename, then we rename. Either way, time to stop going back and forth on it.

Crowner's hooked.

I skipped the first three pages of this discussion and what did I find: 'no new issues'.

Face Palm.

This is just grinding which is immature.

This usage count is far too big to even consider renaming.

edited 7th Oct '11 6:58:38 PM by ChaoticNovelist

Gainax Ending doesn't really need a rename; I'm not even a big anime fan, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the name. Plus, I associate the word "Gainax" with this trope, anyways, far more than I do with Studio Gainax. It's more like we've redefined what Gainax means in the troper consciousness, especially judging by the massive usage that this trope is getting. Unless there's mass confusion based on the name, what reason is there to change it, other than "I don't really know what that word means"?

I'm largely neutral on the issue, but there's a flaw in your argument I want to point out. Namely, while the troper consciousness may know what something is, those who are coming to the site will be more confused and unsure of what the trope means.

Well... that's what the description is for, is it not? If after reading the description, it still didn't make sense, that would be one thing, and would merit a change of the description. For a rename, there should be misuse of the trope on this wiki based on the name. If it were a non descript name, that would make sense. If it were an inherently confusing name, that would also make sense. Since it is neither, I see no reason to rename it. The problems I'm seeing here have more to do with the description than the name.

edited 7th Oct '11 8:08:18 PM by tropetown

However, experience and time have shown that people frequently do not read descriptions or only read a small portion of them. They also sometimes avoid things without clear titles. Also, there's not much you can do to make them read the descriptions.

Well, first of all, that's their fault, not ours. Second of all, is the misuse really that widespread?

Blaming them is useless and not the point of the trope repair shop. There's nothing we can do to make them pay attention like they should, thus we try and give tropes good names that don't cause problems. That is why we try to avoid making new tropes with names like Gainax Ending. There is difficulty in getting people to change names that are problematic after they are entrenched.

edited 7th Oct '11 8:20:11 PM by Arha

Again, is the misuse really that widespread? Is the misuse really due to the title? These two questions need to be answered before a rename is done.

The issue would not be one of misuse but rather that the ending is either being underused, or being used a seemingly high amount but only by certain groups such as anime fans. After all, someone who only reads books and watches live action shows will not have heard of Studio Gainax.

It has close to a thousand wicks, which argues against the first point, but the second remains unchecked so far as I know.

edited 7th Oct '11 8:24:24 PM by Arha

Well, the second point is really untestable, as we can't tell how many editors are anime fans. Unless, of course, we were only finding this trope being used for anime, which would indicate exactly that. However, I've seen it used in multiple other kinds of works, so that method would not work. Like I said before, I'm not really an anime fan; I only knew what Studio Gainax was because of this trope in the first place, and I associate the word "Gainax" with this trope, not with the anime studio.

Since the first point (low usage) has been disproven, again, this would weaken the argument for a rename.

You must not have been around during The '90s when Gainax Ending was first coined by anime fans. It was a term used for Gainax's tendency to use artsy endings since it seemed like they usually run out of budget by the end of an anime's run, with the commonly sited examples being Evangelion, Gunbuster (done in black and white), and Kare Kano (last episode that mostly consisted of scrolling manga pages). Of those, only Eva was a Mind Screw ending.

edited 7th Oct '11 8:31:07 PM by Servbot

And "tsundere" used to mean Defrosting Ice Queen. I've never seen the term used for a no-budget ending, just a mindscrew one(with Eva being the archetypical example). Mememtic Mutation is a harsh mistress.

Yeah, unwritten rule number one: follow all the unwritten procedures. - Camacan

I'd like to say that Native Jovian's re-write sounds like a good idea. I always thought it was supposed to be "Mind Screw ending" myself.

edited 8th Oct '11 3:33:58 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

That's an interesting argument. Do you have some external links that would show that the real-world usage of this term does not match the way T Vtropes uses it?

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

I edited out the paragraph about budget running out since previously it was agreed to do so anyway.

I'm in favor of keeping the name and fixing the description to be more direct and clear about the trope's definition. I like Native Jovian's write-ups from earlier in the thread.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Alas, no, as I don't know how to filter a search to only get pages last modified around a decade ago or more. And as Log Root said, it had since evolved into any ending that makes you go "WTF?!".

I just mentioned it give others an idea why there is/was a "sometimes, the production did it because they ran out of budget" part in the description.

edited 8th Oct '11 4:48:00 PM by Servbot

I might support a rename if the misuse is really widespread. I think I'll do a wick check.

• 2001: A Space Odyssey — Definitely correct
• 9 — Presumably correct
• Blame — correct
• Doctor Horribles Sing Along Blog — Arguably correct
• Futaba Kun Change — seems to be correct
• Adventure Time — Correct
• Alan Wake — seems correct
• Alone In The Dark — seems correct
• American Psycho — unknown (no examples)
• Andromeda — seems correct
• Are You Afraid Of The Dark — presumably correct
• A Series Of Unfortunate Events — unknown
• Berserk — correct, from what I can tell
• Big Man Japan — unknown
• Blade Runner — maybe correct (I'll watch this movie soon)
• Braid — probably correct
• Cargo The Quest For Gravity — seems correct
• Cat Soup — probably correct
• Cheers — seems correct
• Clannad — probably correct
• Curse Of The Zodiac — maybe correct
• Desert Punk — seems correct
• Digital Devil Saga — probably correct
• Donkey Kong Country — correct
• Earthworm Jim — Played for laughs
• Eight Bit Theater — Faked, apparently
• Eraserhead — presumably correct
• Eversion — almost certainly correct
• Excel Saga — probably correct
• Eyes Wide Shut — probably correct, this is Stanley Kubrick
• Final Destination — probably correct
• Galaxy Angel — seems correct
• Gunstar Heroes — unknown
• Highlander — correct
• Houkago No Pleiades — probably correct
• ICE — unknown
• I Made A Game With Zombies In It — seems correct
• Indiana Jones — arguably correct
• Kaiba — maybe, unknown
• Knowing — probably correct
• Life On Mars — unknown
• Lost — CORRECT
• MAD — parodied
• Mahoromatic — lots of examples, seems correct
• Metal Gear Solid 2 — Famous example, correct
• Mother3 — Correct
• Narutaru — seems correct
• Neon Genesis Evangelion — Trope Namer, Trope Codifier, Most Triumphant Example
• Portal 2 — arguably correct
• Puella Magi Madoka Magica — likely correct

Well, that's 50, so... there's not a lot of abuse here. I haven't seen most of these, so I had to judge from context.

You're talkin' a lot, but you're not sayin' anything. — Talking Heads, 1977