This thread exists to discuss British politics.
Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.
- There is a dedicated thread to discuss LGBTQ+ rights in the United Kingdom. That doesn't mean it's always off-topic here, but unless something's directly linked to political events, that's probably a better thread for it.
- There's also a separate thread to talk about your favourite British Prime Ministers.
Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
(Avatar by Coffee)
So instead of being the larger person she decided to pay them tit for tat, I guess.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Field Marshal of Cracked
when I was growing up I was taught not to engage with bullies and nasty people, why should she have to do that? because they're MP's?
advancing the front into TV Tropes
If it means spending more time working with her constituents I'm not sure I see the problem.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
Given the show the Tories have put up over the last few years (Brexit, Greenfell, to name two) I can see where she's coming from.
But hey, its easier calling her thing's than maybe considering that she has actual policy reasons for her attitude?
"You can reply to this Message!"
I mean she's saying it right there.
"These people are actively harming my constituents with their policies and I'm not going to pretend like I can go for cigars with people who are more concerned with a fucking clock than the people of the United Kingdom having the means to obtain a worthy life.'
She's not behaving like a child, she's the adult refusing to bow to the shit-flinging, arrogant toddlers currently running the United Kingdom.
edited 23rd Aug '17 1:41:09 PM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Reading the responses from the new female Tory MPs caused me again to have that moment of angst where a Conservative demonstrates their party's feminist credentials by stating there have been two female Conservative PMs and none from Labour.
That means jack all. Yes Labour could do better supporting their female members. It would be good to have a female leader in the near future. But what those leaders do with the power they have is far more important than if they are male or female. And on that basis there is a clear winner, as it has been statistically proven that it is women who have suffered the most under Tory and Coalition austerity, with pay freezes in the traditionally female dominated areas of teaching and nursing a particularly good example.
Oh, bother.
A politician being honest about how she feels about the other side?! And caring more about her constituents than pretending to be friendly with people who would fuck them over?!
Disgusted, but not surprised
I do find it interesting that she specifically pointed out 'Tory women'.
Now, I wonder what does she think of, say, Ruth Davidson.
Also, this is noteworthy to me:
I don't know anything about what MP Pidcock and MP Badenoch have done in their political life, but I gotta give a kudos/point to Badenoch here.
Oh, bother.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Talk is cheap unless she backs it up with actual votes.
use political terms to describe, not insult
Oh, bother.
"and work with"...that implies actually voting for stuff that Labour might want.
A procrastination in of itself
Or just doing reports and cooperating with other M Ps, there's plenty of ways M Ps can work together outside for voting for bills.
My issue with the whole "they are the enemy" thing is that it's closing a door, I completely get not wanting to be friends with people are harming those you represent, but declaring them the enemy is a good way to shut down any chance of getting them to either stop harming her constituents or help them for once.
Something along the lines of "I'm always happy to work with other M Ps if they want to help people, but the track record of a number of Tory M Ps makes it hard to see that happening and I have no interest in making friends for the sake of it instead of working to help my constituents." would have worked a lot better.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Oh, bother.
TBF,
She's already tried reaching out, which is probably why she's fed up. Which is why, even though she is still willing to work with them if it helps her people, she won't go to the pub with them.
Disgusted, but not surprised
I notice that Kemi Badenoch (who commented on Pidcock, being a new Tory MP) is quoted at the bottom of the article on why she became a Tory MP:
“I didn’t know what left- and right-wing meant. I wasn’t even old enough to vote in the election, but I thought this wasn’t for me. I didn’t trust Labour.
“At school I had teachers telling me don’t apply to Oxford and Cambridge, they’ll never take someone like you. It was an anti-aspiration mind-set.
“I was told ‘you won’t become a doctor or nurse’. It was really disheartening. It set my mind against the left-wing.”
An engineering degree at Sussex University was followed by a career in consultancy and financial services, before a stint with the Tory political magazine The Spectator.
“The real interest in politics started happening around the time I was working after graduation,” she says.
“I would watch the BBC parliament channel and think ‘that’s something I could do,’. I was watching Question Time and throwing my shoes at the telly like everyone else. That is when I thought I would get involved.”
For the last two years. Ms Badenoch has been on the London General Assembly. This week she beat Stephen Parkinson, the Prime Minister’s political secretary, to represent the safe seat of Saffron Walden.
Education and social mobility will be priorities if she wins next month: “It’s my story and what I want for everyone - a second chance.”
I'm wary of Skwawkbox, but since they have the full interview with Pidcock, it's worth reading to try and get a feel for her. I'll quote a few bits. It's long.
It was my union that got me into Labour. I did a little bit as a student but the student Labour scene wasn’t really my cup of tea. But when I started activities with Unite, that really got me engaged. I was on Unite’s National Labour Party Liaison Committee – it doesn’t have much direct power, but it let me see how things work.
I went to Bulgaria for research and saw how a minimal social security system makes a nation precarious for people, which couldn’t be more relevant now. Just today I dealt with constituent who was suicidal because of a system that depersonalises and frustrates people with the aim of making them give up on their claim – or even on life.
I saw the same in Nigeria, how the system just rolls over people – oil pipes going through communities for no benefit, human rights activists assassinated. I do have pride in people in this country who have fought so bravely to defend it and build what we’ve got but I also got to see how imperial we’ve been and how aid can trap people in impoverishment and debt – I’d really recommend people to read Dead Aid by Dambisa Moyo if they’re interested to find out more about that.
If they see someone in tears from the sheer weight of everything that’s being piled on top of them their reaction is, ‘oh you’re being very dramatic’.
The other type is completely ideologically driven. They seem genuinely to believe capitalism is the best way to improve society and it blinds them to the evidence under their nose.
I have met a couple of Tories who were genuinely really anxious for me to see that they weren’t horrible people and really believed putting everything into private enterprise will achieve better results.
Whatever type they are, I have absolutely no intention of being friends with any of them. I have friends I choose to spend time with. I go to parliament to be a mouthpiece for my constituents and class – I’m not interested in chatting on.
I feel disgusted at the way they’re running this country, it’s visceral – I’m not interested in being cosy. I hate those Tory questions that start with ‘Does the PM agree with me..?’ – when one Tory MP stood up and asked one I told him I think those questions are disgraceful. His response was ‘you mustn’t be a very good MP‘!
The idea that they’re not the enemy is simply delusional when you see the effect they have on people – a nation where lots of people live in a constant state of fear whether they even have enough to eat.
There’s just so much work to do for my constituency. County Durham has the highest number of suicides – not in percentage terms, we’re just behind Blackpool on that, but in numbers. It’s linked to the economic devastation – mining communities, textile industries in Crook and the economy in general.
It’s not all doom and gloom, of course. People are amazingly resourceful and really support each other, but they’re fighting uphill. I’m part of a generation sold a complete lie on social mobility, we were told if you work hard you can get on but it’s complete crap – some people work hard and don’t succeed.
The structure of the society and the economy is designed to work against cohesion as well. Too-easy credit undermines it – instead of working collectively with your union to achieve better pay, people think just borrow – but then end up saddled with a lifetime of debt. There’s a mantra of individualisation eroding trade union rights – even if people had less materially in the past, we were more secure because we worked together better.
I think when people like Angela or myself go to parliament, there’s a feeling among some of the Tories that we cheapen the prestige of the role – ‘oh, if they’re one, then it can’t be all that special‘. That irks them.
But we know that we shouldn’t compromise or cheapen ourselves for the sake of sitting in that building. There hasn’t been that much abuse but if people want to waste their energy it’s up to them.
If my accent was incomprehensible it would be a problem but in no way should we sanitise ourselves and lose our identification with the people we represent – nothing’s more important and I will never forget the more than 25,000 people who left their houses in June and voted for me, although of course really they were voting for Labour.
edited 17th Nov '17 8:26:28 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
A procrastination in of itself
Thing is nothing about her statement says she's tried to work with them and found them unwilling, it just says that she consider stem the enemy and won't socialise with them.
Shit man, just saying "I find it very hard to friends with Tory M Ps, in the end they are actively pushing policies that harm my constituents, I can't separate their actions from who they are as people, no matter how friendly they may be to me personally".
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Figure of Hourai
That is one great example of Insane Troll Logic right there. "I became a tory MP because I hate the left wing because I had a shitty teacher".
Hasn't tried?
"No response".
edited 23rd Aug '17 7:28:35 PM by RainehDaze
Avatar Source
Oh, bother.
Unless said teachers openly touted their Labour credentials, I'm also pretty confused as to how she came to the conclusion that discouraging women from joining STEM fields is part of left-wing politics.
Perhaps she's just someone who was always leaning rightwing and just made up her mind to associate everything she doesn't like with the "left-wing".
edited 23rd Aug '17 7:28:52 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
That's the thing. From her statement, we can't know. All our statement tells us is that teachers said X to her and being told X turned her off the left-wing. She doesn't explain how X = left-wing in the first place.
Taking the entire quote, it does look like she was already Tory-leaning, so is just trying to find the moment that pushed her over the edge to answer a question. She does make it sound like she's made a decision (be it conscious or unconscious) to associate teaching with the left-wing.
If that's what's happened, it's not an unusual mistake to make. People do tend to assume that all teachers are left-wing voters. That couldn't be further from the truth, but the truth definitely does surprise some people when they find out that right-wing teachers are actually common.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
You're saying like that their actions don't reflect who they are as people.
United Earth
Judge Scalia is known to be a very nice guy in person. Affably Evil ?
Oh, bother.
Just because someone might be willing to Pet the Dog on occasion doesn't mean they aren't still shitty people overall.
For example, a Tory MP who is Nice to the Waiter when it comes to his or her personal life might have no qualms about voting for policies that fuck over lower-income families. It's classic Moral Myopia. The former arguably makes the latter worse: they've got the empathy to give a damn about poorer people they know by name or see on a daily basis, but they don't spare any of that empathy for the thousands of poor people who would be hurt by the policies they support.
edited 24th Aug '17 1:45:30 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
"Is"? Did someone defeat death while I wasn't looking?
But yeah, as said, just because someone can be nice and personable to people they know, doesn't mean they're not culpable for how their actions effect people beyond their immediate circle. Especially when they're in positions of power such as a Member of Parliament or a highly ranked member of their countries Judiciary.
Would that it were so simple.
I think these times have put to rest the idea that you can divorce the person from the politics.
"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
can't blame her.... the way Tory MP's have often treated and refereed to female and minority Labour MP's is nothing short of vile
advancing the front into TV Tropes