What is this about?: Street Samurai

The examples are all over the board, and the description contradicts the trope name. Going from there.. a Street Samurai is essentially a Badass with cool gear in a cyberpunk setting. Going from its better written sister trope, Corporate Samurai, I suspect Street Samurai is supposed to be "a Ronin In Space."

Thoughts?

Edit: Ughh.. The title is supposed to be "What is this about?" Now I look like I'm retarded.

edited 3rd May '11 12:22:30 PM by Zikiel

Holler for a name change.

Fight smart, not fair.

Yeah, this probably needs some work (I believe I launched it?). Especially confusing given the later created Corporate Samurai.

I guess I would say that a Street Samurai is a jack-of-all-trades mercenary/courier type, and the Corporate Samurai is similar, except more likely to be on the villain's side.

Hodor

I'd say the Corporate Samurai is also likely to be much better funded than the Street Samurai. It is a very common cyberpunk trope though and this is the accepted name for it. They tend to be anti-heroes and often have cybernetic enhancements.

edited 3rd May '11 1:33:16 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Couple of options:

1) Redefine this to be closer to a true sister to Corporate Samurai. Corp Samurai is a Noble Demon/minion who follows a code of honor despite working for an evil group. Street Samurai is a freelancer that follows a code of honor in a futuristic setting.

2) Name change Street Samurai to something dissimilar to Corp Samurai. The description is too vague right now, but I do know what it's trying to talk about. This is a badass in a cyberpunk setting who works as a jack of all trades despite his/her skills. Freelance Badass?

Freelance Badass is a good idea- and then the page could comment on the Street Samurai named by Gibson being like an iconic type- it would also make it clearer that non-urban characters can qualify.

Hodor

Please, please, please don't use badass. Use Freelance Samurai, Freelance Warrior, Freelance Killer, anything but badass.

Fight smart, not fair.

Street Samurai is a pre-existing term in the cyberpunk genre. I realise that the description might sound confusing if you aren't familiar with the genre, but the trope is pretty much as described and it's a really common character type in cyberpunk, and they're always called Street Samurai.

Please don't change the pre-existing terminology from the genre.

edited 3rd May '11 8:55:30 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

'k. Is the page written well or do the examples need purging?

Fight smart, not fair.

The ones I know fit the trope, but I can't say anything about the anime examples. There's a fairly good chance thought that if they aren't from a cyberpunk series they don't count. This trope is kind of the default protagonist of the cyberpunk genre. It could use a bit of expanding and detail tweaking. I'll get on that tomorrow when I've gotten some sleep.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Glancing at the anime list that I know

Lets see Ghost In The Shell isnt really an example as she is a government agent (Still very loosely controlled) however its quite the Cyberpunk.

Black Cat the series based off freelance bounty hunters in an Urban Fantasy with lots of fantasy and sci fi elements end up fighting the Evil org and the Government Samurai, Bubblegum Crisis is cyberpunk the main girls are fighting the Corporate Samurai.

All though are very badass and cool I could be talking out my ass since I am not 100% sure what the trope is about. These the good guys while Corporate Samurai are the bad guys?

edited 4th May '11 1:00:33 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

No, they don't need to fight Corporate Samurai. Or at least, that's not what defines a Street Samurai. Street Samurai needs to be badly funded, often down on his luck. He'll most likely have at least one cybernetic implant. He's tech and computer savvy and has problems with authority. Very much a lower class hero. He's cocky, arrogant, and headstrong.

It's not that strange to see them toting around swords when everyone else has guns. Even if they don't use them, they often have them anyway. They tend to be loners and don't really like working with others, but they seem to get forced into it anyway by circumstance. The really defining thing though is that they fuse the old school hacker mentality with the ideals of a samurai. While they tend to be tech savvy bastards, they can be counted on to do the right thing in the end.

edited 4th May '11 7:33:01 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Ahh then kill that Ghost In The Shell example they arnt really lower class heroes they are more high tech cops. Black Cat though that describes Train and Sven, although Train isn't tech savvy that's Sven's job. Bubble Gum Crisis though its been years though.

That also pretty much describes Samurai Champloo too but that's set in umm Anachronism Stew hmm.

This should probably be defined as a down on his luck "lower class hero"?

edited 4th May '11 7:45:41 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

There's a lot more to it than just being lower class. It's a very genre specific trope. There's a whole "Infomation wants to be free" mentality. Like I said, old school hacker + anachronistic mercenary + cybernetics + a very distinct code of honour.

It's the base hero type for a niche genre and it doesn't always translate well out of it.

Ok, attempts to define it in anime terms. Imagine if Spike and Ed from Cowboy Bebop had an unholy love child that didn't think the government/mega corps/whatever should hide anything from anyone and had a code of honour that was a strange fission of Bushido and old school Linux hacker codes.

edited 4th May '11 8:19:08 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Hmmm well alot of those elements seem to be a trope onto themselves like Lower Class Hero like Black Cat and Samurai Champloo which are both literally Street Samurai which is pretty much everything the trope describes like down on his luck, drifting from job to job ect but the hacking. (the trope says Urban Fantasy is fine which is the misuse.)

edited 4th May '11 8:25:48 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

The hacking is an important part of being a street samurai. If you don't have that, you aren't the trope. Like I said, it's a very well defined niche trope. I realise that there are probably some larger supertropes for it, but as it's used in the cyberpunk genre, it's got it's own ideas attached to it.

Urban Fantasy is fine, if it's modern enough to have the hacker elements. We are now in the future enough that things set NOW can have enough cyber elements to work for the trope. It's just the problem that just being Urban Fantasy isn't enough to count.

edited 4th May '11 8:28:37 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Yeah and the Rōnin trope is only that if they actually reference the term... Hmm.

Well anyway Bubblegum Crisis is this Cyberpunk it has all the hallmarks + mech suits instead of swords IIRC although they are sometimes suppose to be cops (depending on the series).

And Ghost In The Shell is Cyberpunk and is pretty much a secret gov group suppose to do the dirty work on sensitive cases they do a lot of illegal hacking, moral debates, badass shoot outs ect I am not sure if it counts.

Anyway those are the only examples on the page I know. Sorry for monopolizing a page again...

edited 4th May '11 8:43:12 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

If hacking is an important part of it, the only one from Black Cat that would qualify would be Eve - she's the only one who is ever shown to have hacking skill in any way. That said, she quickly develops a code of honor after her introduction (a former Tyke-Bomb taken in by the other two heroes), she has a nanite-generating organ of some variety implanted in her (which fits for cybernetics), and fits the setting overall.

Due to the whole law enforcement thing, I'd say that the Major from Ghost In The Shell would probably be a Corporate Samurai - which looks like it needs a touch of cleanup as well, because it's not totally clear from the description if it's a villain trope or not; my gut instinct is that it wouldn't be.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

Corporate and Street aren't so much hero and villain as establishment and anti-establishment. Ghost In The Shell would be Corporate Samurai.

edited 4th May '11 8:51:47 AM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Seems like the main problem wasn't the title, but that the description wasn't great. Or maybe I just suck at reading. We need to make it clearer.. more clear that this trope doesn't actually have anything to do with Samurai, it's just the name of the archetype.

I'm going to stand back and let someone who's more familiar with cyber punk handle this one. Though, while I'm here, it seems like these examples don't fit:

• Black Cat has "sweepers" (bounty hunters) who might fit
• Possibly the protagonists of Get Backers and others like them in the series
• Frankly, the Major of the various Ghost in the Shell series counts, being a kickass Action Girl and expert hacker. While she may be in law enforcement, she doesn't follow the rules to the letter (she's big on The Law, less so on individual laws), and has posed as a hired gun on occasion.

• At times, Wolverine of X-Men has had aspects of this to his character
• Deadly little Miho, although she also doubles as a Ninja.

• Kill Bill: The Deadly Viper Assassination Squad is a group of assassins, some of whom use katanas. While The Bride is in a coma for several years, the group disbands and the members either retire or work solo, essentially becoming ronin.

• The Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy song, "Satanic Reverses" has a line:

Sent Joey to the Supreme Court Cause he made a statement, they called it Desecration of the symbol that was meant to represent The freedom of so-called choice and dissent They almost had me believin' it, I was bleedin' it He said, "Burn, baby, burn" Til the Street Samurai said to my face That any flag that's worth shit Was woven from fire in the first place.

In this context, the "Street Samurai" is likely Rono Tse, fellow Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy bandmate

edited 4th May '11 12:02:24 PM by Zikiel

The Samurai bit came around from the fact that they tend to have a code of honour and they tend to carry around swords in the future. There are Asian influences to the sterotype, but yeah, Cyberpunk seems to use the word to mean something completely different than the rest of the world.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Ghost In The Shell is sometimes considered Post-Cyberpunk instead of Cyberpunk because the heroes are not rebels and technology is on the whole a benefit to society. It's not clear that terms like Street Samurai and Corporate Samurai even apply.

Bubblegum Crisis is borderline cyberpunk, but I would say nobody is a Street Samurai since they all use high powered and well-funded equipment, and only Nene is a hacker, and she's a relatively weak fighter.

^ Ok. Good to know. We should probably start removing the bad examples. That should help things. I'm still working on a better coherent definition, but I do want to thank Raso for making me explain my points. That's helped.

edited 4th May '11 12:53:44 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Bubblegum Crisis now that I think about it. If Ghost In The Shell is corporate then Bubblegum is where both sides are Corporate as you got the cops (in the incarnations I have watched) vs the MegaCorp.

Do need to rewrite the Black Cat one Eve is the only one that truly fits she is a cyborg that can use her body as weapons like the T1000 and uses her nano machines to hack things, over the course of the story she gets a strong morality code like her partners.

Train and Sven are everything listed but hackers, strong morality code they will never kill they just bring criminals with a bounty in alive. Train has a fancy ass gun an Sven is very tech savvy and has a transforming briefcase with weapons. (I want to call them Rōnin but the name never comes up as they are freelance bounty hunters called "Sweepers") all are pretty much living bounty to bounty as it's a running gag on them being hungry and end up fighting the government's twelve elite assassins as well as the evil org. opposing them.

Not 100% sure on what goes where.

edited 4th May '11 1:35:28 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Ghosti In The Shell is neither an example of straight up Corporate Samurai, nor Street Samurai.

Yes, they work for the government (like a CS), however, they are a division which attends to public security, i.e. the interest of the people. Almost in every episode they are taking out some ex-government operative, uncovering a corporate or government scam or protecting the public from terrorists. Their own government doesn't like them most of the time and on a number of occasions has tried to shut them down or obstruct them in some way. They really have no love for their own government and actually tend to aim for transparency in the government if possible. they also don't do the governments dirty work, not if they can help it at any rate.

They also aren't exactly SS. They may have cybernetics, a certain personal honor and a desire to do what's right, but they aren't exactly Wandering the Earth, scrapping to get buy. They are well funded, in stable employment and can either get the access they need to do their jobs or they manage to work around it. Their gadgets are certainly cool enough, as are their hacker skills, but They aren't a traditional example of the trope. They are however, much closer to SS than they are CS, I believe

From the examples, I'd probably say that Mamoru of Until Death Do Us Part is a pretty damn good example of an SS in manga, actually. Carries a sword, has a certain honor, but also a certain ruthlessness and disregard for the rules. Is tricked out with some tech, in particular a device that helps him see the outlines of objects (he's blind) and an Absurdly Sharp Blade, which he uses against all sort of weapons, including machine guns and a freaking tank. He's working at the moment for a particular sort of military-esque group that has no affiliations with the government, though so he's in a somewhat stable position, but he definitely has the sensibility. He doesn't really give a shit about his job, it just lets him use his sword and get paid for it and fight strong opponents.

To be honest, I think the Corporate Samurai should be Corporate Ninja instead. They are much more about stealth and strategy and using their wits. Sometimes they doesn't even use weapons much in their business, they can arrange circumstances without violence, they just have no problems doing so if it's the best way to go about solving the problem for their backer. Street Samurai on the other hand usually prefer using violence, (to show off their skillz), and hacking and other such skills are usually just helping them to get to the situation where they get to fight somebody. Also if they use hacking, they often don't try to hide that they've done it. Instead they put some obnoxious message in to further piss off the person who comes back and finds their data from their comp suddenly missing.

edited 18th May '11 1:17:06 AM by NoirGrimoir

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