Needs work (new crowner Oct 21): MK Walker

TL;DR: No redirects, suggest a better name altogether, full of natter and non-video game examples.

Just saw this one when someone posted it on the Mv C 3 board. Oh man where to begin...

First off, the name. MK Walker stands for Mortal Kombat Walker, an apparent form of The Computer Is a Cheating Bastard where the opponent AI is ramped up high enough in difficulty that it can instantly predict any and all moves that you actually pull off against them, while slowly inching their way towards you until they corner you and flawless pull off an attack that gives you no hope of escaping from.

I don't mind, or care, if Mortal Kombat is the Trope Namer, but I just think this is a horrible title, and it has no redirects either for that matter. Something like Predict Your Every Move would make more se-

'MK Walker found in: 59 articles, excluding discussions.'

'This title has brought 799 people to the wiki from non-search engine links since 20th FEB '09.'

......crud.

Ok well then how about this part of the description:

While most often encountered in Fighting Game A.I.s, MK Walkers have been known to make manifestations elsewhere. Skilled players often resort to MK Walking less skilled ones. Robots from the future or from hyper-advanced civilizations are also known to likewise shrug off the attacks of the heroes using some kind of "adaptive shielding" to render most attacks moot point.

What the hell does that last line have anything to do with anything?

MK Walkers are usually characterized by their slow, but sure "Offensive Defense" towards their opponent. It is NOT this trope when the Walker runs, jumps, or performs certain risky moves to get close or when finally there, unless those movements are the exact counter to something an opponent does. SNK Bosses have a very long history of this.

Ok, so they're the type of character who keeps advancing at a steady pace even after you've thrown everything including the kitchen sink at them... I can see this as another trope entirely for non-video game examples.

In narrative terms, compare the Implacable Man, The Juggernaut, and The Slow Walk although an in-game MK Walker may not fit any of these by the story background.

What. The. HELL does a game mechanic have anything to do with a narrative character trait?

*reads the description of The Slow Walk*

...Yep, there we go. The trope for non-video game examples, and even references this one as the video game version. WHY ARE THERE NON-VIDEO GAME EXAMPLES ON THE PAGE!?

Oh look, natter too.

* Vergil from Devil May Cry 3 acts like an MK Walker "normally", as in he normally walks towards Dante while parrying any moves the player makes and counters immediately. The key is to let him attack first, dodge and counter. In this respect he is not a full-fledged MK Walker.

So not only is he not an actual example of the trope, but this entry would spawn an entire thread of both semi-related natter and facts pertaining to the other games in the series below it.

* In the book version of The Princess Bride (but not the movie adaptation), the Dread Pirate Roberts fences like this.
* In Princess Mononoke, Ashitaka saves the titular princess from Irontown by doing a pacifist version of this: He bends swords with one hand, casually shoves an angry mob aside, blocks swings from both sides, knocks them both out with single blows, gets shot (but got better), opens a heavy gate and gets mauled by a Big, Badass Wolf. And his Dissonant Serenity only breaks for a moment when he's Shaming the Mob.
* Curiously enough, one of the Chuck Norris jokes describing his Memetic Badass status seems to describe him as a MK Walker: "Chuck Norris has only two speeds: 'Walk' and 'Kill'."
* According to this article, the boxer Joe Louis was sometimes identified by sports media to as an MK Walker.

Again, non-video game examples.

Why do I feel ashamed at humanity after reading this page?

edited 17th Apr '11 9:07:47 PM by DRCEQ

Ugh, it should be exclusively about Video Games. It's supposed to be a term for the kind of fighting game AI that wins by 1. never doing anything unsafe, 2. countering or punishing anything you do which is unsafe, and 3. advancing continually.

The MK Walker isn't necessarily an example of The Computer Is a Cheating Bastard. It's an example of perfect play — the only way to beat it is knowing how to play flawlessly yourself.

^ Then that's another strike against it's very description.

I think the Wick count demonstrates that the title is working.

Everything else about the article is a disaster, though. The description and examples are both in need of some chainsaw surgery.

The name itself isn't wrong, but it is in dire need of a searchable redirect. Some Adjectivy Noun perhaps.

The description is fine — it already implies that it is or approaches flawless computer play, but one of the sections in the lower paragraps should be moved up to emphasize this. It is a mess otherwise.

The whole thing about robots from the future doesn't belong there. This isn't really narrative. Definitively. Getting some "adaptive shield" is a prior action and could only be considered MKWalking in a cultural or meta sense. Ditto the Harry Potter example (where the hell did that come from?) and the Ashitaka example.

Chin from KOF does not fit this trope, at least in any game that isn't KOF 97. Neither does Heat Gemblem, who only has a MK Walker sequence in his entire AI Chain.

edited 18th Apr '11 7:16:35 AM by SilentReverence

"I think the Wick count demonstrates that the title is working."

Not if it's being misused. Have we checked for that?

In terms of fighting games where this trope best applies, nearly all the examples fit correctly.

In terms of any other type of game that isn't a fighting game... well, it's kinda hard to tell. The Advance Wars one is an inversion of the trope.

And now the new description is TL:DR.

All it needs is to be made clear that it is a specific form of videogame AI found in fighting games (which it was. I think that paragraph at the bottom about narrative use and 'adaptive sheilding' was just so The Borg would be allowed on). The title is fine. MK Walker is referenced all over the wiki. Most Tropers know what it means.

I swear I killed that Harry Potter example mind you.

EDIT: Seriously, the entire first two paragraphs are completely superfluous. I suggest reverting the description and amending it so that it's clear that it refers exclusively to fighting game AI's. Come to think of it, dont we normally have to reach some kind of consensus before going ahead and rewriting the whole article?

edited 18th Jul '11 12:49:35 PM by OmegaKross

The "what is it like to challenge a perfect opponent" is a nice intro to the article, but beyond that the description is definitely too long.

Okay, nobody's reverted it, so I'm going to ask if I can just go ahead and revert the description, and clarify that the trope is exclusive to fighting game AI's. And rip out every non-videogame example. The new description is too damn long and makes it seem like a chess trope.

Unless it was the work of a mod. I dont think it was.

Eh? this trope is certainly seen elsewhere from fighting games. Zelda II The Adventure Of Link might be the first example of this ever and its an Action RPG.

Oh, the final boss? Yes, he's the Zelda equivalent of an MK Walker. He advances within attack range and starts quickly striking alternating high and low blows (depending on your current stance), and also blocks your high and low attacks. It is a perfect AI aside from his one glaring tactical flaw where jump attacks leave him vulnerable to low strikes.

But Zelda II is a sidescrolling action-RPG, which means it's actually quite comparable to fighting games.

edited 19th Jul '11 9:35:43 AM by Stratadrake

I tried to revert the description last night, but discovered that my PS 3's browser doesnt have enough memory to copypaste the entire originai description, so now I cant be bothered. But will someone please revert it? The new description just exacerbates this whole discussion. And it doesn't "address most points brought up in trope repair shop" either. Its still full of non-videogame examples and is now even more long winded than ever.

My point is that it's not a Fighting Game specific trope it's all types of action games, Action RPG, Beat 'em Up (Dynasty Warriors uses a form of this in a few of it's games.), Fighting Game etc.

edited 19th Jul '11 10:07:31 AM by Raso

Fine, but we're agreed that its exclusive to videogames right?

Objection.

There might also be situations where it applies in Tabletop Games.

Its an AI trope. With Tabletop games it would fall under The Juggernaut. Or Killer DM. Or Random Number God.

edited 19th Jul '11 10:43:16 AM by OmegaKross

Or a perfect game of chess.

For clarification, there's a mention of this being done with RTS tactics, such as slowly rolling forward under artillery protection. Are you intending to axe that part of the game?

Because it's also applicable to miniatures tactics.

edited 19th Jul '11 10:50:22 AM by Ramidel

With miniatures it ceases being an AI trope. MK Walker is a form of The Computer Is a Cheating Bastard.

And if that RTS tactic is a player tactic, then yes, I do intend to axe it.

edited 19th Jul '11 10:57:52 AM by OmegaKross

The Slowrolling RTS examples seem like a completely different trope to me.

Honestly, I think the trope applies only to Fighting Games and Beat Em Ups.

^I think that's mostly true, but then you get occasional stuff like Dark Link. The RTS thing probably doesn't count, though.

It definitely doesn't have a place outside videogames.

edited 19th Jul '11 11:32:08 AM by INUH

I went ahead and nuked the non-videogame examples, though most of the description should be moved under the analysis tab; I also didn't touch examples that included player actions as MKWalking.

The what tab?