Only Spain and Israel get Badass subpages? What about other countries?: Bad Ass Spaniard

I looked around for this a bit, and the strongest argument I found for keeping just these two was basically "they've had a lot of badasses". Well what about countries like America, Russia, China, India, Britain, France, Germany? They each have, or have had, a huge number of badasses. Perhaps there should be a subpage called "Badass Country" or "Badass Foreign Person" or something similar, with folders for those countries?

I think we've got Badass Foreigner.

Edit: no? I swear we've got something like that.

edited 11th Apr '11 6:25:30 AM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.

That might be a bad idea to call it that, beacuse it would assume that We All Live in America.

edited 13th Aug '11 7:21:02 PM by nuclearneo577

Are we talking about Badass Spaniard and Badass Israeli?

Rhymes with "Protracted."

^ I believe so. The mention of badass "countries" in the thread title threw me off a bit.

edited 11th Apr '11 10:47:24 AM by SeanMurrayI

You misspelled it. We All Live in America.

Everyone Has An Important Job To Do

I think the reason that the other countries don't have pages is because they don't have specific stereotypes of badass associated with them like the two we have right now. They don't have a national level of badass that is different from anyone else's.

The Badass Israeli has Mossad implications. They tend to have their training from one organization that has a specific training style, and everyone in the country serves in the army. They as a country, have a specific media portrayal of badass that is different from the generic.

Badass Spaniard is a far older stereotype. One that involves fencing and suave accents, and a very Hollywood view of Spain. It has less grounding in real life than Badass Israeli, but it's no less distinct.

Other countries do not have the same media stereotypes and thus aren't separate tropes. They're just the same trope but from another country. In order to split off a trope, it needs to be distinct.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Surely it'd depend on the country's media as to which other countries you'd associate the badass stereotype.

As over here I feel there could be a badass page for these countries at least: Russia/France/England.

By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!

And what are the distinct sterotypes for those countries? What makes them different other than just being from a different country?

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

There sort of are equivalents from other countries, they just don't have the badass label:

• Badass Russian- Mother Russia Makes You Strong
• Badass Scot- Violent Glaswegian
• Badass Frenchman- Subversions of Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys
• Badass Asian- All Asians Know Martial Arts (some other tropes like Chinese People and Old Master also somewhat relate to this)

Hodor

I'm not entirely sure what you mean (sorry), as looking at the Badass Israeli page it could be any country in there (such as Russia) with their own traits filled in (but with heavier accents and more vodka :P)

edited 11th Apr '11 11:23:50 AM by IanExMachina

By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!

Do all Russian badasses have the same fighting style? Are all Russians to a man as a country trained to fight? These are traits about how they are badass. Not just how they are Israeli.

Vodka has nothing to do with how Russians are Badass. Only how they're Russian.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

The bit in the brackets with the face was a joke, hence the :p and it being in brackets.

With your points for the Badass Israeli traits none of the examples mention the conscription and martial arts as the sole reasons for the trope, mainly just that they are Israeli and are shown in a Badass light.

There is nothing so over specific that means you couldn't do one for Russia (for example) as they are often portrayed as huge weapon toting, surviving anything, unstoppable juggernauts. (Also if martial arts is for some reason an important factor: Systema, and a mention of Putin owning with judo?)

By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!

See, and that's an argument, though I'd leave Putin out of it. He's his own entry on real people who are secretly Bond villains.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Isn't there a specific stereotype of Badass Englishman? Suave, sophisticated, upper class, well dressed and keeps his dinner jacket on even in the middle of a fight. Basically, like James Bond or The Scarlet Pimpernel.

"Well, it's a lifestyle"

Sort of Tuxedo and Martini, but actually, that probably could be its own trope.

Hodor

We also have Stiff Upper Lip.

But the problem is that Spaniards and Israelis are outright called 'badass' while these other examples being listed are not. Simply seems a bit strange considering that there are plenty of countries that could easily have their own badass subpage. Plus, it seems a lot of the examples are just normal badasses who happen to be Spanish/Israeli, rather than badass because of their country.

I think if you go through and actually take the time to figure out what the specific tropes are an only pick people who fit the trope for that country, regardless of where they're from, then they could be successful. But being Badass and British shouldn't automatically make you whatever we call the British Badass trope if you don't fit the rest of the criteria.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Then that's a problem with the examples and they should be cut.

Honestly, I'm against having the Badass Israeli and Badass Spaniard pages at all, because most of the examples seem to fit the faulty description you just listed (IMO). Maybe they should be redone as something like Zorro Expy and something else for Israelis.

edited 11th Apr '11 12:52:44 PM by melloncollie

I agree. I think once those examples are cut we're left with very little.

All that really means is that whoever named them was less creative than whoever named Mother Russia Makes You Strong. So what?

Rhymes with "Protracted."

So...pages with Badass in the title are 75% more likely to turn into uncontrollable messes? And if the trope is truly Badass Mossad*

then make it so rather than a title that is open to Matzo Masturbation Fodder.

^ Yes, "Badass" in the trope name is a good indicator that it either is a mess; was a mess until a wiki curator adopted it; or will shortly become a mess, if it is a new trope. Lots of editors think that "Badass" means "this trope is good and I must add my favorite works and characters to it".

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Badass Russian is a real trope, though (even if it might need a better name.) "Big, bear-wrestling Russian dude who is basically badass because he is Russian" shows up in a lot of works. I don't think any of the other nationalities mentioned have the same cachet.

Honestly, I would say that Badass Russian is a real trope and that the ones for Spain and Israel generally are not. Russia has this trope/stereotype of crazy huge hairy vodka-swelling characters who wrestle bears in the Russian winter, to the point where if a character is referred to as a 'big Russian dude' you'll instantly picture that trope. I don't think there's any real shorthand for badass Israeli or Spaniard characters — they should be merged into a more general non-nationality-specifc trope.

But one for the 'crazy Ivan' stereotype Russians would be appropriate.

EDIT: Oh, right, Mother Russia Makes You Strong.

But anyway, I'm not really seeing Badass Israeli or Badass Spaniard as real tropes. It feels like they're just random intersections of Israeli + Badass or Spaniard + Badass rather than character archetypes in their own rights.

edited 12th Apr '11 2:22:45 PM by Aquillion

Looking at the Badass Spaniard examples, there's definitely some weak ones (badass characters who happen to be Spanish or Hispanic), but there are also some good ones. Pretty much, the trope generally means a character with the style of the Latin Lover or Spicy Latina, but with fighting prowess- and they'll be as stylish in this aspect as they are in general.

Hodor