Undine, Gnome, Silpheed, and....Salamander?

I don't know if we have a trope for these 4 monsters when they're in a set yet, but we do have them for the four chinese animal gods (fire bird, tiger, dragon, and turtle)...so...perhaps we have a trope page for these 4 guys? Yes? No?

Typically, Undine is water, Gnome is earth. Silpheed is air. Salamander is fire.

This set of 4 monsters are VERY prominent in fantasy settings. Monster Rancher have undine and salamander  ^*

, Lost Magic have them for their respective elements  ^*

^{they sucked}

, Yu Gi Oh feature them in quite a few cards  ^*

^{most notably, the Genex archetype has a Steampunk version of each one of them}

The Monster Girl Encyclopedia have all 4 of them as of today  ^*

^{sexy times are to be had for their victims}

, I think they're monsters in various Final Fantasy games, and several several other medias...

Anyways, my question is...why SALAMANDER?! Why is a frikkin Real Life animal, a tiny amphibian no less, alongside sexy water woman, ugly gnome, and whatever the hell silpheed is supposed to be? Why a unspectacular Real Life amphibian? Why not...some sort of dragon or fire elemental?

---

PS-so do we have a Trope for this? Because there are pleeenty of examples where these 4 monsters exist in, and more often than not, they're never apart, if a game has one, it must have the other 3.

The 4 chinese animal gods have their own page with lots of examples, so what about these 4 monsters? Do they have any name that unifies them for a Trope page?

edited 14th Mar '11 8:56:49 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Didn't we have this thread before? I could've sworn it was on It Just Bugs Me before it got purged.

It's more frustrating waiting for the asskicking than the asskicking itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salamander_%28legendary_creature%29

Because a salamander is a mythical creature as well.

Holy fast reactions Bat Man

And nope, can't find a similar thread in Yack Fest...

edited 14th Mar '11 8:58:40 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

This wasn't just something fiction writers made up, there was some medieval philosopher or something who came up with these.

edited 14th Mar '11 9:00:01 PM by Clarste

Also, I think the reason we don't have a trope for it is because the 4 monsters in question are just personifications of the Four-Element Ensemble.

But they appear to be a bit more...specific than Four-Element Ensemble. I mean, they're 4 elements, but it's always Undine the water woman, Gnome the tiny rock creature, Silpheed the...green air thing, and Salamander, the burning salamander.

Plus, theres no mention of any of the 4 in that trope page. So do we have a trope for them?

edited 14th Mar '11 9:02:10 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Silpheed is based on the Sylph. And I'm pretty sure Anthropomorphic Personification covers the elemental monsters.

If it doesn't exist, you could always take it to YKTTW.

edited 14th Mar '11 9:05:08 PM by Customer

I still gotta think of a name and a large enough pool of examples...and a name.

So far I thought about..."Undine, Gnome, Slyph, and Salamander"...hardly a doable name for a trope...

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Well, the Anthropomorphic Personification page has a red link to Elemental Embodiments for some reason, so that could probably work as a start.

edited 14th Mar '11 9:09:49 PM by Customer

I guess...I'll try to change it's name to something that fits better later on.

I think whoever put Elemental Embodiments in that page was just referring to how monsters/characters are made of elements, like Logia-types rather than actually undine, gnome, salander, etc.

Ah nvm, someone already made a trope for it...needs a better image though....and the trope I had in mind was works with those 4 beings specifically, not just any elementals.

edited 14th Mar '11 9:14:26 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

They're called the Alchemic Elementals, apparently. [1]

edited 14th Mar '11 9:16:25 PM by Clarste

I must pimp the poor, neglected, usurped Secret Of Mana series for this maybe-trope as well. There were four additional elementals as well:

• Wisp - Light
• Dryad - Tree
• Shade - Shadow
• Luna - Moon

"But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you." - O'Brien, 1984

Ah I remember that game...I played it solely my impulse buy and for Dryad...even though she sucked.

So do those 4 Alchemic Elementals warrant a separate trope from Elemental Embodiment?

Since they appear much more prominently than all over elementals, and since they never exist without the others around.

edited 14th Mar '11 9:18:57 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

I think they're worth noting at least. And they often tend to be used as spirits that are summoned as part of the spellcasting process, rather than just monsters, so they have a slightly different niche.

I don't know, don't we already have pages about alchemy?

I supposed it would fit right in with Our Monsters Are Different but that's about the only reason I see to included a whole page about a specific part of a particular magic/pseudo science.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

Never say never. I'll use Fairy Tail as my example. In FT, the main character, Natsu, is referred to as the Salamander because he's a mage that uses the magic of a fire dragon. While there is also a dragon of air, the other two elements mentioned don't have a prominent character attached to them.

If it does get split from Elemental Embodiment, then Mercedes Lackey's Elemental Masters series uses them in her magic system. The various creatures will obey a mage with a talent for their element, but tend to dislike mages of the opposing element.

They also appear in Tanya Huff's Quarters novels as a kind of Nature Spirit which can be sung (controlled) by those with the talent to do so.

Golem, Salamander, and Sylph are summons in the Final Fantasy series. Undine got left out for some reason. Possibly because water summon traditionally goes to Leviathon.

edited 14th Mar '11 9:58:29 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Undine is a late unusual-monster-encounter in most Castlevanias.

The thing about these 4 is that...they always come as a set. Unlike stuff like Dn D, where theres literally an elemental for everything (and their fire, water, air, earth elementals aren't even salamander, undine, slyph, and gnomes anyways), these 4 monsters are always put in a game intentionally as a set. Seeing one will almost always mean you will see the other 3 at some point.

Weirdly enough, Salamander isn't always a salamander, sometimes it's just a dragon.

Whelp gonna make it a trope....

edit: correction, LEARN what the hell YKKTTW is first.

edited 14th Mar '11 9:55:16 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Natsu 'Salamander' Igneel is alone in Fairy Tail.
Undine is the only one of the four to consistantly appear in Castlevania.

Ah really? Damn, I do remember Salamander being an Awesome, but Impractical spell in Castlevania, and Undine appearing quite often. Not sure about gnome or Slyph.

For these 4 guys, what makes them special is that the creator consciously put all four of them into the game together when they do. For of like the bird/tiger/dragon/turtle thing.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Sylph is a sometimes enemy in Castlevania, but not as common as Undine. Castlevania gets closest in Circle of Moon with the cards. There's Salamander, Sylph and Undine.

I'm pretty sure Gnomes appeared too...or were they just Fleamen?

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."