Full Metal Alchemist General

Speaking of the manga, we rarely ever bring up the Manga. It's always the first and second anime, not the one that truly started it all. Where does the manga fall in compared to the two anime guys?

edited 6th Jul '14 7:03:26 AM by AfroWarrior27

It is superior to FMA 2003 for having a better latter half, and it is superior to FMA Brotherhood for having a non-rushed first half.

Well yeah, but people usually go into far more details about why they support 2003 against Brotherhood and vice versa. People don't elaborate as much with the Manga.

Of course I'm a bloody hypocrite because I only read the entire manga... once.

I think it might just be the Western audiences seem to be more into anime, than manga. Whereas - from what I know, and there are definite exceptions - anime is frequently just publicity to sell more manga in Japan.

Plus, with a couple exceptions (the rushed beginning being the most obvious), Brotherhood is pretty much a scene by scene perfect adaptation of the manga. A few jokes are changed here and there, one or two filler episodes added, but all the stuff we're talking about here is the same in both.

I've read the first half of the manga, but then life happened and I never finished.

Brotherhood seems to be a pretty flawless adaptation from what I've read of the manga, however.

While it is very faithful, I wouldn't exactly say flawless. (And this is coming from a guy who loves Brotherhood.)

There still tons of scenes Brotherhood omitted that had more of an impact in the Manga. The biggest offender would have to be The Ishval Flash Back Arc. Which I felt Brotherhood's take on it was very weak giving how much detail & depth it was in the Manga and how important it was to the series overall's plot. Some memorable scene such as the "stray bullet" scene was cutoff completely as well as fleshing out the Mr.& Mrs. Rockbell more.

I'd honestly would say the Ishval Flashback is a big reason why one should read the Manga. That and maybe the other Flash Back Arcs in generals. (Like the Xerxes, tons of detail was cut out of that as well.)

edited 6th Jul '14 9:25:36 AM by AfroWarrior27

I'll admit that I couldn't get into Brotherhood as easily as I did the first anime although the plot is a lot better in Brotherhood.

Yeah, the manga is just... better than Brotherhood. It isn't as rushed in the beginning, and YES, the Ishval Flashback is reason enough to read the manga, thank you very much for saying it, . Much more detail is given in general, and because it just takes longer to read the manga than watch Brotherhood, it feels more like a journey (then again, it took me several months to finish just because I didn't go to the library as much as I wanted to, I could read a volume in 45 minutes.) And the bonus comics... I could read nothing but Arakawa's bonus comics.

edited 6th Jul '14 2:32:45 PM by jupiterrocks24

Transmutation Circle Titties alone make FMA above FMAB in the beginning.

Titties???

Yep, boobies.◊

Oh, Pysren. I notice the only female alchemist in Manga/Brotherhood is Izumi Curtis. Though in Milos we did have Julia.

And fun little trivia the person that voice her later voices the 2003 Wrath, and in Brotherhood voices Truth.

edited 6th Jul '14 3:35:19 PM by AfroWarrior27

Brotherhood is my absolute least favorite of all the options because of the pacing issues,along with the story itself. Manga's second half is a grave disappointment compared to 2003's, but it was still decently paced and the first halves were the same.

And the reason Manga isn't mentioned is because it's practically the exact same story as Brotherhood.

Every criticism directed at the non-2003 story in most cases may as well be directed the one that has color, and voices, and animation rather just pages.

The only actual improvement Brotherhood has over the Manga is the death of Hughes,thanks to those very poignant last words.

Um, how is the Manga second half a disappointment to 2003 in what way?

2003 falls apart slowly after episode 25 and it's quality get's worse as it proceed after 34 with nothing barely happening in till the character return to Lior, an uninteresting Big Bad with a uninteresting death, and the ending to both the show and the movie with that real world nonsense in Germany & randomly evil Nazi that was brought out trough sheer Ass Pull.

The Manga on the other hand stays consistent with it's quality and had an overall tight closure to it's plot with the events that carried on staying strong and just as consistent to it's story. It helps that author knew what she was doing from the very beginning.

And as for Brotherhood, it improves in the intensity of the fight scenes as well as some of the drama example include but not limited to the scene at the gate when Ed see Al's body, Winry's gun scene, the state transmutation circle activating and among other things visually and beautifully. So I doubt the funeral was the only actual improvement.

edited 7th Jul '14 2:54:40 AM by AfroWarrior27

Remember, a lot of that is subjective, isn't it? I don't think it's fair to say there's an objective quality shift in any of the three mediums of this story. As pointed out dozens of times in this thread, a lot of people still prefer the 2003 anime. I personally do, anyway.

Well, whether it objective or not in regards to quality, I still found some major inconsistency in the later half of 2003 to made me feel incredibly bleh at times. Beside this is a debate thread where we debate over other opinion.

That already means most of what we say is subjective, so that sorta goes without saying.

edited 7th Jul '14 7:20:50 AM by AfroWarrior27

I've heard Brotherhood also fixes some authorial hindsight issues like having Mustang insist on the Philosopher's Stone being used to heal Havoc before himself during the epilogue.

edited 7th Jul '14 8:17:20 AM by TobiasDrake

Yeah, noticed it wasn't in the manga like a month ago when I finally got to reading the last few volumes. In the manga, I'm pretty sure we see Havoc walking in one of the pictures or something, so wouldn't this mean Marcoh used the stone on Roy and then Havoc? I guess that wouldn't be too in-character for the Colonel, but then again, all you can do is assume; I don't think they mentioned anything that would lead to Havoc becoming un-paralyzed.

And, in my personal opinion, manga>2003 anime>Brotherhood.

edited 7th Jul '14 4:34:17 PM by jupiterrocks24

Both the Manga and Brotherhood seriously messed up Edward by instilling that No Kill message beyond ridiculousness, it cheapened the whole arc of having to kill his "mother". And then it turned into a nice take-down of Envy's attempts of Shapeshifter Guilt.

It's true that Mangahood did not give the far darker and more tragic origin to homunculi being "mistakes" and "incomplete" that had to be eliminated, so it wouldn't have made quite as much sense to give such an arc again.

Then, the switch from Roy to Scar just didn't have the same oomph, and I'm sorry but everything about Winry's attempts to try and make peace with Mustang,it was simply better put than that very clumsy attempt at drama and that cardboard speech about "these hands"

As for Dante vs Father, Father was just entirely predictable,everything could be expected, and honestly it was all a contrivance to get to his defeat. Alphonse having to sacrifice his body, Edward suddenly kicking ass by one arm...the whole build-up is fatiguing like Dragon Ball Z or something.

Contrast Dante's very ironic downfall (used to highlight the obvious hypocrisy amuck) and death.

And no it wasn't "nothing" until Lior, it was a very good set-up about the homunculi, it established the coolest canon immigrant...Frank Archer (why the hell was he not put into Brotherhood?).

Really, story-wise the only real problem with 2003 is Shamballa. Had Studio Bones just bothered to do 3 or 4 more actual episodes instead of a Big Damn Movie, I'd hard pressed to find any story aspect that didn't turn out better with what Arakawa theorized rather than went with for the Manga.

But no, they didn't go with Ed Win,didn't fully resolve the far superior set-up between Mustang and Winry, Izumi died off-screen, and pretty much everything except for Alfons and the juxtapositions of Hohenheim/Wrath (still prefer this end to Hohenheim over the grave) in the jaws of Envy/Gluttony seemed lacking.

Manga/brotherhood didn't messed Edward up, his No Kill policy if anything strengthen the character, because having to kill someone to solve your problem is the easy way out. Edward was prepared to take the hard way, while his 2003 counterpart took the easy way out.

Also the Homunculi are created and structure completely different in both version so it wouldn't even be possible to have to kill his mom again.

And I disagree entirely about Roy being Winry's parent killer and stating it's outcome was better than Scar. That so called "clumsy attempt at drama" was a far more effective moment than the outcome of 2003 that led to pretty much nothing, they had an ideal than they simply drop it even before Shamballa. That plot point was handled far emotionally and added a lot to Winry's character while 2003 just ignored it after it was over. Not surprising considering the 2003!Winry isn't well develop like her Brotherhood counterpart is.

And Dante was still a lame villain regardless, Father had a far more fleshed out back story and a more personal history with Hoheneim for wiping out his entire race, it's far more original and better than Dante's cliche we use to be evil lovers. And the conclusion to Father was far better than Dante's who once her stone was gone, ran away in and elevator and got killed by Gluttony of all people going out like a punk. For the so called powerful alchemist she got bested by that fat slop. You call it ironic, I call it a massive cop-out and lame& cheap way just to get the main villain out the way.

And Frank Archer never appeared in the Manga, so of course he'll never appear in Brotherhood. Beside he was forgettable anyways, just another corrupt nut. And Brotherhood doesn't need any terminator nonsense.

And Hohenheim was butcher terribly 2003 compared to brotherhood, I could see why Ed doesn't like him. He barely results to the story line, his reason for running away is very shallow, and later just disappear off into the real world to die an incredibly narmy death. His death in Brotherhood on the other hand was far more heartwarming and peaceful, and contibuted more in that storyline.

Most of your complaints is simply complaining about Manga/Brotherhood not being like 2003. That isn't really valid at all. You can't complain about character you like from another version not appearing in the original storyline or the concept of homuconlus being different. (Which is a flaw itself, are we really suppose to believe that humconlus who comes from Human Transmutation, only have just 7 running around?)

edited 7th Jul '14 11:59:32 PM by AfroWarrior27

Both versions are good. We have no need to prove that one isn't to enjoy the one we each enjoy more.

@Afro: Brotherhood gave Dante a cameo, mucked up the Yousewell incident, skipped over a lot of the introductory stuff, and introduced May at a different time. Room could've been made for a canon immigrant.

A character like Archer would've been a far stronger case for a corrupt military than Raven.

I never said I liked 2003 Hohenheim better (the original voice is definitely better though), I said I like the conclusion better, that is not the same.

Brotherhood Hohenheim shouldn't have died, or at least not so quickly. There should've been some moments with him and the boys together again but not in conflict...maybe idk,he lives to the end until that very last frame (Adult May! The Babies Ever After) revealing the whole thing was at a grave. Still get the Together in Death effect,but he doesn't escape the consequences.

The original one went out in a sort of twisted way fulfilling his failures to Envy, Ed, and Al by letting himself be offed. The sacrifice managed to satiate Envy, whom he mercury poisoned to death in life, and help Ed open the gate from Earth to get back to Al, which is probably the best thing he could've done. Of course it's not enough,but given how long it took him to realize how wrong Body Surfing was...it's fitting.

edited 8th Jul '14 9:32:10 AM by terlwyth

Adding to this, Father got a genuine climax. He had to be defeated in the end.

2003's climax was all about Envy. Envy kills Ed, then conveniently disposes of himself by following Hohenheim through the Gate, while Ed and Al have their mutual sacrifice shpeal. Dante was, by and large, irrelevant to the story, and once it was done with her, she conveniently disposed of herself as well.

The Elrics accomplish nothing, while the villains defeat themselves for them, and by the end of the story, they have less to show for their efforts than they did at the beginning. Al's lost the entire journey in exchange for his body, and Ed's banished to an alternate dimension forever.

Mangahood ended in a similar place, with the brothers going their separate ways and Ed having lost his ability to use alchemy, but their fire-forged relationship was stronger than ever. They knew and respected each other's achievements and although they would be physically apart, they were walking the same path and planned to meet each other again. They had grown and were stronger for their experiences.

By contrast, the events of 2003 might as well have never happened as far as the boys are concerned. They've lost each other forever, the remaining brother has lost his memory of the entire adventure, and now they'll both just sort of have to deal with their losses in their new lives. The only distinction between where they were in the beginning and where they are in the end is that now, they don't even have each other. Shambala tries to fix that, but is mindlessly awful.

edited 8th Jul '14 12:19:13 PM by TobiasDrake

But Ed and Al did defeat Dante. She wanted to obtain the Philosopher's Stone, and Ed and Al's actions stopped her from doing so. Just because they didn't have a violent, physical showdown with her doesn't change that.

As for the ending, I didn't see it as being nearly as bleak as you did. Yes, Ed and Al are seperated, but they're both working on ways to see each other again. It's not a Downer Ending; it's And the Adventure Continues.