Looks like a girl. Also possible JAFAAC.: Keet

The first (4) I think nothing says energitic like a face in the camera with a Nice Guy Pose, second one has bad text the third one is more ready to fight which isn't what the trope is about (most examples arnt fighters)

edited 14th Feb '11 7:51:00 PM by Raso

the first (well technically the 4th) is one of my favorite up close shots of Goku.

Yeah, 4 is my favourite of the group. He's obviously male and it's got the energy bit. Plus he's from a Shojo manga which helps.

Technically, he's not from a shojo (ok not technically, it's from my experience that Saiyuki is a shounen) HOWEVER, it's a unique one, it definitely panders to the female audience and demographic more than the male one-despite being a shounen. Ho Yay is all over the place. (not a fan of that trope-but even with it all over the place-you can easily ignore it).

And Goku is both the Keet and Boisterous Bruiser-but most see him more as a Keet than anything.

edited 14th Feb '11 9:52:31 PM by marheavenangel89

Although the more I read up...aparently I'm wrong...it has Shounen elements but at the same time, it's different it that it combines elements from other styles...like Shoujo.

I guess its one of those Genre-Busting Multiple Demographic Appeal I Dont Know How To Classify This Animes like Haruhi.

I might have to put it on my future watch list.

edited 14th Feb '11 8:08:30 PM by Raso

LOL THERE YOU GO!

I highly recommend it. It's been a while since I've watched it, however I very much enjoyed the series.

And Goku is freaking adorable.

edited 14th Feb '11 8:16:06 PM by marheavenangel89

It's generally classified as Shojo which is part of why he counts as an Audience Surrogate for a female audience, but it's got a large Periphery Demographic.

edited 14th Feb '11 8:14:04 PM by shimaspawn

Really??? Then I guess that makes it a very unique shojo then. cool

Really. Check out the indexes on the Saiyuki page.

Huh. Well, I can't exactly say that I prefer this Goku over a certain other one...

That said, I do like the fourth image of Goku. Shows the Genkiness without going overboard and making him look too much like a girl.

It honestly does surprise me, because it vastly does not follow the common shoujo formula. And there is Ho Yay...but no outright gay canon couples in the main cast-which is 4 guys. Very few women show up. And other than the monk-(from what I remember) all 3 guys had a female love interest in some way or another-but it didn't end up working out. (well for the Gojyo-it never works out because he's a perv who pretty much hits on every hottie he lays his eyes on).

So yeah....its not like some stereotypical shojo/boys love series...it's VERY different.

(all the more reason I love it)

In fact-thanks for telling me this, that makes me love this series even more!

Well he's different from DBZ Goku, because while both of them are representations of the same character in Journey To The West (and both anime characters are huge eaters-and Badass Adorables AND Boisterous Bruisers)...Goku from Saiyuki is more Keet, where as Goku is different.

edited 14th Feb '11 8:34:01 PM by marheavenangel89

That Goku isn't actually an example of the trope. He's not an Audience Surrogate for a FEMALE audience. He's a stand in for a male audience. He's not Keet. He's just a Boisterous Bruiser.

A large number of people in this thread seem to be ignoring the trope definition. It's irksome.

edited 14th Feb '11 8:35:31 PM by shimaspawn

I know that. I was just making a kinda offtopic comment on them, is all.

Ah, I see, sorry for misunderstanding you.

But anyways, back to topic...I think Goku fits the trope better than....whoever that pink haired person was. I mean I've watched a lot of anime-and 99 % of the time I can tell the difference between male and female characters...even the really gender neutral chicks and the most feminine of bishounen. (unless it's a really good cross dresser)-however that image, I seriously thought that example was a chick. So it was kinda confusing.

edited 14th Feb '11 9:37:26 PM by marheavenangel89

How do we decide whether a character is a female audience surrogate or not?

Generally they have very feminine mannerisms and appearance despite being a male character. If you could easily see the character as a girl without really changing anything, it's probably this trope.

I dont know if we should restrict it THAT far to an absolute requirement I mean "Cutesy, hyperactive guy." or the Hyperactive little brother type that can range in ages just they got to be at least One Head Shorter then most of the other characters.

That alone usually grabs the female audience.

As it stands though examples need pruning ao many of the Live Action ones are so... Iffy... I mean Adam Savage from Mythbusters? However if your looking for real western examples that fit this Sponge Bob Square Pants is probably the most prominent example. Invader Zim's GIR and Keef.

edited 14th Feb '11 9:59:42 PM by Raso

, Basically, its a stand in for the female audience, females generally gravitate to this character the most. And as it's been stated it's a very hyperactive young boy (and if he crossed dressed or something-he could still be confused for a girl because of his hyperactive cutesy personality can fit either way (boy or girl that is)). But that doesn't necessarily mean the boy HAS TO BE overblown feminine. He can still have those feminine like qualities (as in the cutesy-moe overload that most females love) while still looking like his gender. (unless you crossdress him...then it's nearly impossible hard to tell)

He's basically a Genki Guy, but not all Genki Guy's are a standin for female audiences-but it IS a characteristic of the Keet to have those Genki qualities. (the hyperactivity, bundle of energy-cuteness that is)

edited 14th Feb '11 10:02:47 PM by marheavenangel89

Yeah, I agree. There's a lot of pruning that needs to be done. Adam Savage is Genki, but he's not Keet.

Adam Savage?!?!?! KEET?! Yeah...some pruning is needed I'd say.

edited 14th Feb '11 11:21:08 PM by marheavenangel89

Although, maybe feminine isn't the right word. Granted they do have those cute qualities that could make it easy for the Keet to be a surrogate for the females of the audience.

I guess the right word is more "child-like" or even a variation of Gender Neutral. Like young children...the Keet can easily be a boy or a girl-keep him in boyish outfits, you'd believe he's a boy, despite his Moe-ness. Put him in a dress, a bow, MAYBE a wig? You'd believe you're seeing a girl. Take for example literally Ash Ketchem. A young 10 year old boy. And he looks it too. However, look up anytime Ash either had to or was forced to cross dress....YOU'D THINK YOU'RE SEEING A GIRL! ( Ugh, and considering the amount of fanfiction, fangirls make him into the uke)

It's safe to say the trope doesn't need the boy to be a character who would be confused for looking like a girl WHEN he's not crossdressing. He just needs very childlike qualities that are distinguishable in both boys and girls-hyperactive-adorable-energetic, surrogate for the females in the audience, and a character obviously the female audiences instantly gravitate too BECAUSE of said Moe-cuteness.

As opposed to just a Genki Guy...who while has the personality traits as the same as Keet, he however isn't someone who could perfectly females find themselves fitting into their shoes, being their surrogate is key. Also the Genki can't make a convincing girl if he was forced into crossdressing (he MIGHT-depending on your view of girly) but generally Genki is just an adorable guy-who isn't doesn't always have to be a young boy. An older dude can easily be Genki.

edited 14th Feb '11 11:23:50 PM by marheavenangel89

Bumpage

I think what we're really looking here is more androgyny that childishness.